Is net neutrality going to (help/royally screw) LOL and east coast ping?

Linna Excel·Feb 27, 2015·3 votes·982 views

Does anyone at riot know how ping/connectivity is going to work now that the feduheral government and the FCC is now controlling the internet? Is this going to help ping or make them worse? It seems like every game I'm in recently, at least one person is really slow to load up in the beginning and one person disconnects for 3-10 seconds. Is this going to help things? Is this going to nullify all that work you guys have been doing?

Also, since there are new internet tax rumors, can anyone there talk about if there will be some or not? Is riot getting ready to raise the price on skins?

20 Comments

hüngFeb 27, 20152 votes

Hah im not poor I can afford good internet

Seth LightheartFeb 27, 20151 votes

No it won't. Riot has already talked about this. This game uses very little data when playing, however all of the data packets need to get there fast and in order. Netflix is the opposite.

(I can go into more detail, but I assume you would find it boring)

Linna ExcelFeb 27, 20151 votes

I think I remember that discussion and it's a somewhat interesting topic.

At hand though, doesn't needing to get there fast prove to be a problem? If your packets need to get there fast and in order, you need to optimize for that. However the internet now is required to be neutral meaning you can't get speed or optimization because that's favoritism. Some of the early things I'm hearing is that this net neutrality isn't the net neutrality that most people expect from the term.

DrCyanideFeb 27, 20151 votes

Riot's (to the best of my knowledge) already working around that problem.

Basically, Riot is building a "League only" internet. When your League traffic gets to the internet provider's router, they're going to pass it to a special part of the building where Riot owns a router. From there, Riot owns its own connection, bypassing the rest of the internet provider's routers (which slow down the signal).

Riot has to pay to have their own routers in the building, but that's about it.

Linna ExcelFeb 27, 20151 votes

Basically, Riot is building a "League only" internet. When your League traffic gets to the internet provider's router, they're going to pass it to a special part of the building where Riot owns a router. From there, Riot owns its own connection, bypassing the rest of the internet provider's routers (which slow down the signal).

This is what worries me. That technically isn't neutral, that's favoritism. The internet is now a public utility that everyone has access to, so you can't have a riot only router.

JubbinautFeb 27, 20152 votes

I'm not sure I understand this argument. Riot is, basically, building their own private network. If that's problematic, do we then begin shutting down the private networks used by larger businesses? What about the large-scale private networks used by schools with multiple campuses?

Because honestly, what Riot is doing is basically the same thing - just on the largest scale yet attempted.

EleshakaiFeb 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EIfHgKV0,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-27T18:49:53.219+0000)

This is what worries me. That technically isn't neutral, that's favoritism. The internet is now a public utility that everyone has access to, so you can't have a riot only router.

You misunderstand the concept of net neutrality. Net Neutrality is saying that ISPs can't prioritize traffic themselves. It isn't saying that someone can't create their own private network... that would basically shut down all business ever.

DrCyanideFeb 27, 20151 votes

No, it's "package delivered". Riot isn't selling their network to consumers, it's private for their data.

Seth LightheartFeb 27, 20151 votes

The routers isn't the issue. It's the "pipes"

DrCyanideFeb 27, 20151 votes

No, it's the routers. The routers are trying to manage congestion and impose limits on how fast they re-transmit data. The pipes cause next to no delay in comparison.

Seth LightheartFeb 27, 20151 votes

No. It is the 'backbone' the US has a crap ton of copper wire.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/05/network_neutrality_dinosaurs_like_time_warner_and_at_t_have_nothing_to_worry.html

They don't want to lay down all that fiber, if it was the routers the issue would be solved easily.

DrCyanideFeb 27, 20151 votes

Your source doesn't mention copper or fiber once, I'm not sure why you linked it.

Some quick searches say that copper wire transmits electricity at about 66% of the speed of light (some estimates put that number higher, but this was the lowest value I found). I'm about 650 miles from Riot HQ, which means that if the delay was the wire only, my ping would be 1. My ping is about 70. Players in New York would have a ping of 4 or 5.

Put another way, even if you upgraded the entire US backbone to fiber, you'd shave a maximum of 4 to 5 milliseconds off the ping. The problem is most certainly not the backbone's material, but rather the routers that need to buffer, boost signals, and re-transmit the data.

Edit: Woops, messed up a little on the math. Correction below

Seth LightheartFeb 28, 20151 votes

Do a Ctrl+f on 'backbone' that is what they are talking about.

There is something called the 'dig once' law. Basically in the US if you want to dig you have to wait for a bunch of other people who need to dig as well. So it's a cluster f- to put anything in.

If the problem was as simple as throwing in a few routers it would be done.

The copper wire is why our connection in the US is so slow compared to much of the world.

P.S. compare copper to fiber.

DrCyanideFeb 28, 20151 votes

I messed up on the ping calculations.

If the entire connection between me and Riot HQ was copper wire, there would be 14 ping associated with the transmission. Therefore, 56 ping is caused by sources other than the copper. In New York City it would be about 60 ping.

Assuming the speed of light (which is faster than fiber optics can function), my ping would be 8 and New York City ping would be around 30.

You are miss interpreting what your source is saying in multiple places.

Level 3 Vice President Mark Taylor provided evidence that five U.S. ISPs (and one European ISP) are refusing to upgrade their infrastructure despite their connection ports being saturated

"Connection ports being saturated". Not the pipe itself, but where the data gets onto the pipe.

"Dig Laws" come into play in getting the signal from the customer to the ISP. It's what makes it hard to set up something like Google Fiber in a city, but ultimately doesn't change the backbone of the internet much, if at all. Gigabit internet (like Google Fiber) is exciting because it's tackling what's known as the "Last Mile" problem, where it's relatively easy to get the high speed internet close to a city, but hard to roll it out to each resident.

Seth LightheartFeb 27, 20151 votes

No, that is something different.

When you are constantly sending information back and forth there are two thought processes. The first is basically a shotgun, you are sending data as fast as you can and don't care if it all gets there. An example could be a Skype call. I don't care if there is a little bit of static, I don't want lag.

The second is league where I want to send in an input and I want my character to move in that direction. I DO NOT want him to randomly ult because a 1 turned into a 0 along the way.

These two thoughts have nothing to do with net neutrality.

What causes problems is the first (sometimes) because of the data needed.

Drunk RummateFeb 27, 20151 votes

removal of net neutrality will allow internet companies to charge more for better connections which means they will be able to afford better infrastructure and R&D to improve connections across the board. it's a good thing because it means you'll have access to the internet you want if you're willing to pay for it. it's also good because it will likely increase competition amongst internet providers which means better service and prices for all of us.

currently you pay X amount for an internet connection and if it sucks there's nothing you can do about it.

RaptameiFeb 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

removal of net neutrality will allow internet companies to charge more for better connections which means they will be able to afford better infrastructure and R&D to improve connections across the board. it's a good thing because it means you'll have access to the internet you want if you're willing to pay for it. it's also good because it will likely increase competition amongst internet providers which means better service and prices for all of us.

Allow me to correct this:

removal of net neutrality will allow internet companies to charge more for the same connections and do nothing else because they have a monopoly or cartel.

Meanwhile in Europe: €39/mo for unlimited 60 mbps broadband.

AnomanderFeb 27, 20151 votes

It will not change at all.****

EleshakaiFeb 27, 20151 votes

Net neutrality won't have any impact on any gaming services except for things like sony's PSNow streaming service. Most online gaming uses EXTREMELY small amounts of data.

Rafael MerloFeb 28, 20151 votes

I'm from BR Server and even if I don't play here I'm worried if the NA Server Roadmap will be affected by the new decision on Net Neutrality. This is so much of an advancement to just be outlawed.