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@Riot, my personal experience with the chat restriction system

Unward49··2 votes·720 views

In the 10 or so games I have played since my chat restrictions have been lifted, I have received not only no reports but have been honored for team working in at least half of those games.

Why is this? Because I am a leader in games. I use pings a lot and I chat to the team a lot, I call plays, I direct traffic in the mid game, because I'm a jungler, so I don't need to be controlling my champion while I kill camps, so it's easy for me to divert my attention to these other critical tasks. I have made no particular effort to be less toxic and yet all of a sudden, when I have all the words I need to properly express what I need to say, all of a sudden I can do so in a way that is not instantly interpreted as toxic and inflammatory by my team.

When I only have a tweet's worth of information to type every 20 minutes and my top laner is getting camped, I can't actually tell them what my plan is to deal with it, all I can respond to their constant pings and increasingly urgent requests to gank with is "Play safe, stop dying" Because I literally don't have the space to say what I want to say which is,

"I can't gank right now, I'm too low on hp and I don't have any damage to help" "let me back to base to buy a longsword, then I'm going to hit level 6 as I clear my red, I'll ping you when I'm 5 seconds out" "When I do that, bait them in and we'll get the kill. I'll play like I've gone away and when they TP back to clean you up, we'll ambush again"

That right there is my entire chat allotment as a chat restricted player, but I also direct the level 1 plays if my team is up for it and maybe a want a smiteless gromp or whatever.

What's my point?

My point is, Chat restriction is counter productive to the goal of making people less toxic. It only frustrates the player more making them more likely to simply use their small amount of chat allowance to rage at their team mates. And I can certainly speak from experience here as I have been chat restricted for basically as long as I can remember. It's only these past few days after those chat restrictions have been lifted when I've been able to properly communicate with my team and actually achieve some positive results through that communication. And yeah, doesn't mean I win, but when I lose and I did everything I could and my team tried to rally but we got beat anyway, then I don't get angry and toxic and ragey from the loss. I might get a tad salty, but who doesn't.

Anyways, this is just my experience with chat restriction vs no longer being chat restricted for you to consider.

18 Comments

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

It sounds like you have a strong reason to want to work out off those chat restrictions and never get one again then.

Grace de Dirty1 votes

{quoted}

It sounds like you have a strong reason to want to work out off those chat restrictions and never get one again then.

they were lifted for all players. he said that in his post. did you read it?

Rueian1 votes

Really none of riots punishments focus on the core problem and in turn do not promote reform, reform doesn't happen because of the punishment. All they really do is ask you to be introspective. Some people cant make it past the introspective step and actually make progress.

Unward492 votes

{quoted}

Really none of riots punishments focus on the core problem and in turn do not promote reform, reform doesn't happen because of the punishment. All they really do is ask you to be introspective. Some people cant make it past the introspective step and actually make progress.

Yes, I'm not going to say you're wrong, because you're completely correct.

What I will say, is that I don't play video games to have polite social interactions with people. When I want to have polite social interactions with people, I go down the pub and have a pint, I play a board game, I Jam some tunes. When I play video games, and specifically this video game, I fucking dunk bitches with my Princely justice for the glory of Demacia! That is all I'll say on that.

Rueian1 votes

realistically i think this game just needs to have solo queue removed. It cant be properly enjoyed in a solo queue setting. People are resistant to teamwork, and overall just dont take the game seriously. the frustration builds up, and some get punished. If they wanted to really address the core, they need to address overall player perception of the seriousness of this game as a PvP game.

Punishment needs a more active role rather than this passive "you cant talk or sit in time out for a week" and "here is what you did wrong don't do it again" If they want reform, they need to promote the player down the path of reform, beyond introspection.

I did x wrong, why, how do i stop it. when the answer is 'dont get mad' you have a problem.

Unward491 votes

{quoted}

when the answer is 'dont get mad' you have a problem.

Completely this.

Though, amazingly, what I've found is that if I just keep talking, then far more often than not, my teams aren't completely resistant to teamwork. They just need someone to call the shots.

Well I don't mind doing that, but I can't do it under a fucking chat restriction.

Rueian1 votes

No one listens when i make calls, which only makes me more angry. Because people either dont make calls or make REALLY bad ones.

Unward491 votes

{quoted}

No one listens when i make calls, which only makes me more angry. Because people either dont make calls or make REALLY bad ones.

Well that was my experience when I was limited to 1 line every 3 minutes to make calls, but when I can devote a good paragraph to explain my strategy, my success seems to increase quite a lot. Like we'll be doing dragon as we can see the enemy collapsing. I know we've got enough time to finish it, so as we're doing it, I'm typing to my team that as soon as I smite this thing, I'm peacing out. It looks like this.

"K guys, focus drag, we have time." "I'm gonna smite and run, clear the pit now if you have no dash to jump the wall"

But here's the biggest secret about good calls and bad calls.

Every call that isn't followed is bad and a bad call that is well followed will often times turn out good.

Rueian1 votes

That isn't quite true. A bad call is a bad call, followed or not. Especially when it results in losing major objectives for nothing.

Unward491 votes

{quoted}

It sounds like you have a strong reason to want to work out off those chat restrictions and never get one again then.

Yes, that's all very well and good to say, but my point is, it is my ability to say more than 3 lines of text a game that has made me LESS toxic, apparently. I'm saying the punishment makes the symptom worse, not better. It's like trying to cure cancer with more cancer.

You need to appreciate that first I had a 10 game chat restriction and after working that off I was immediately hit with one for 25 and then immediately hit with 50 etc, etc so at no point have I had the ability to actually communicate properly. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to see your team failing all over the map and not being able to do ANYTHING about it? This isn't down to carrying vs not carrying, it's down to things like when being able to tell my mid laner "come get your blue already!" because some people treat pings as a suggestion and not the command that I intend them to be.

And the thing is, frustrated players are incredibly dis-incentivised to act in a less toxic way. Toxicity is more often caused BY frustration than by any specific desire to cause mental or physical distress to another person, but if it feels like the very game and it's developers and players are conspiring against me to make the game LESS fun by handicapping me with a chat restriction, well guess what, I very rapidly lose any and all fucks I might have given for the sensitive little feelings of the names noobs I have to share my gaming experience with.

If I can't develop a rapport with my team, then why am I supposed to care how they feel about anything. And sure, many games, that rapport DOES get developed entirely through game play, and those are the matches you long for, but far far far more often, at least for me, it takes actual verbal communication to create that synergy.

Unward491 votes

I guess what I'm saying is that a potentially good call can SEEM bad if it isn't followed completely.

You see this a lot in pro play too, what made C9 so great was not that they made "good" calls. It's almost never a "good" idea to go 5 man tower diving bot lane around the 5 minute mark, but something would happen, like a morg binding landing and they would just hit the go button and because they all went all in without hesitation, they generally came out ahead, even though arguably it was an incredibly stupid call to make.

Often what determines the goodness or badness of a call is the result and a call that is only half followed or not followed is almost certain to turn out bad.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

When I only have a tweet's worth of information to type every 20 minutes and my top laner is getting camped, I can't actually tell them what my plan is to deal with it, all I can respond to their constant pings and increasingly urgent requests to gank with is "Play safe, stop dying" Because I literally don't have the space to say what I want to say which is,

"I can't gank right now, I'm too low on hp and I don't have any damage to help" "let me back to base to buy a longsword, then I'm going to hit level 6 as I clear my red, I'll ping you when I'm 5 seconds out" "When I do that, bait them in and we'll get the kill. I'll play like I've gone away and when they TP back to clean you up, we'll ambush again"

That's a solid point. And I hope you'll keep it in mind and continue to ensure that your communication is clear, effective, and (at worst) neutral.

But it doesn't take that many lines to get across the important information you want to share. For example:

"can't gank, too low. lemme back and clear red, then omw. try to bait when I ping"

That covers the important things you wanted to share in one line, by clearing out a bit of extraneous detail.

Which is not to say that you're saying or doing anything wrong with those lines. Merely that it's perfectly possible to share the same information with fewer lines/characters. Because sometimes it helps to be more brief.

My point is, Chat restriction is counter productive to the goal of making people less toxic. It only frustrates the player more making them more likely to simply use their small amount of chat allowance to rage at their team mates. And I can certainly speak from experience here as I have been chat restricted for basically as long as I can remember. It's only these past few days after those chat restrictions have been lifted when I've been able to properly communicate with my team and actually achieve some positive results through that communication. And yeah, doesn't mean I win, but when I lose and I did everything I could and my team tried to rally but we got beat anyway, then I don't get angry and toxic and ragey from the loss. I might get a tad salty, but who doesn't.

While it's true that it does create that effect sometimes, it most often accomplishes its goal quite effectively - which is, simply, encouraging players to put more consideration into how they use the chat feature. And it certainly seems to have helped you recognize - or at least remember - the importance of effective use of chat.

The repeated issuance of your restrictions indicates to me that it was not a perfect solution for you, but it seems nevertheless to have been an effective one.

Unward491 votes

{quoted}

The repeated issuance of your restrictions indicates to me that it was not a perfect solution for you, but it seems nevertheless to have been an effective one.

No, it wasn't effective because will under chat restriction, I was not considering what to type in the slightest because that is not how I play video games nor how I ever wish to play video games. This means that if I was having a bad game and getting frustrated, that was what my team was hearing from me without me having the chance to then turn that frustration into righteous and glorious team fighting to at least have a chance to come back. This was then compounding the problem because I would say something like "stop feeding you jackass" Followed by ten minutes of absolutely nothing from me, because I couldn't say anything more.

This in turn was no doubt causing team mates to label me as Toxic, and sure, in that situation I can understand it.

Here is a player who spends most of the game saying nothing and when they do communicate, it's to tell you something derogatory. Seems pretty clear cut right?

Well now that I finally have chat enabled again, I can follow that up with other things and more importantly, I can communicate with other members of my team in order to try and form some kind of synergy somewhere to try for a comeback.

Because like I said, I've not made ANY attempts to curb my "toxic" comments. When someone is feeding, I tell them in no uncertain terms to cut it out and I'm not "nice" about it. Yet I don't seem to be getting reported now, because while I'm doing that, I'm also communicating with the rest of my team about how we're going to fix this problem.

It makes all the difference.

It's about context.

If I said someone used the word %%%%%% and said nothing else, how would you label that person?

Now what if I told you it was the President of the United states who said it while having a calm and intelligent conversation about race relations in america. Doesn't that change the context of the word JUST a little?

The point is, for players like me who take it upon themselves to be the voice of the team, sometimes we're just going to get reported because we rub someone the wrong way. Sometimes we even MEAN to rub people the wrong way because we can see a way through to victory but this person isn't co-operating and the only way we can think to get them to alter their in game behaviour in ANY way is to insult them.

I have never once used a racial or homophobic slur or death threat or even implied personal threat which is probably why I have never been more than chat restricted, I focus entirely on how the person is playing the game. I will tell them in no uncertain terms what they are doing wrong and what I expect of them and when they aren't co-operative I'll let them have it. If I continue to get nothing from them after exhausting all avenues then I simply stop talking to them, but I will try insults before I try nothing.

I have never won a game because the team just stopped communicating when they ran out of good things to say to each other. I have won MANY games because we all yelled at each other when things were rough and THEN came to the collective decision that we were going to fight it out one last time.

All chat restriction does is take away this avenue to victory. It's like telling me I can't build X item or take X summoner spell while allowing the enemy and the rest of your own team to build/take them and THEN seeing that your own team is refusing to take/build them even when that is exactly what is needed.

That can only lead to more frustration and more toxicity, not less.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

No, it wasn't effective because will under chat restriction, I was not considering what to type in the slightest because that is not how I play video games nor how I ever wish to play video games. This means that if I was having a bad game and getting frustrated, that was what my team was hearing from me without me having the chance to then turn that frustration into righteous and glorious team fighting to at least have a chance to come back. This was then compounding the problem because I would say something like "stop feeding you jackass" Followed by ten minutes of absolutely nothing from me, because I couldn't say anything more.

True. But you're thinking about it now. I stated that it wasn't perfect, because it didn't encourage the behavior while it was in place - but it was effective, because it led to recognition nevertheless.

If I said someone used the word %%%%%% and said nothing else, how would you label that person?

I'd label them as someone who doesn't understand what words are.

... Okay, yeah, that was a terrible joke, I'm sorry.

Now what if I told you it was the President of the United states who said it while having a calm and intelligent conversation about race relations in america. Doesn't that change the context of the word JUST a little?

Of course it does. Context is always important. I would never say it wasn't. And being able to provide that context is a significant boon to communication.

My point wasn't "you should still have chat restrictions because it helped you not be toxic." Rather, it was, "While they didn't help you deal with your frustrations better, they did help you recognize the importance of paying attention to how you use your chat - a skill which you seem to be making good use of now. So that's good, at least."

All chat restriction does is take away this avenue to victory. It's like telling me I can't build X item or take X summoner spell while allowing the enemy and the rest of your own team to build/take them and THEN seeing that your own team is refusing to take/build them even when that is exactly what is needed.

That can only lead to more frustration and more toxicity, not less.

For players like yourself, this is true. Which I grant. And granted in the first place.

I'm not trying to downplay your experience in the slightest. But your experience is not all experiences - and for most people, Chat Restrictions are extremely effective at their explicit purpose. You're not most people. There's nothing wrong with that.

Unward491 votes

How. How is a system that increases toxicity in some players an effective measure at decreasing overall toxicity?

The way the system was set up, I never would have had the chance to find out that it was lack of communication in the first place that was causing so much of my frustration because it never gave me a chance to play without it. I KNOW I'm not the only person who was in this situation.

Let's look at it this way.

The vast majority of people don't enter into a game with the intention to be toxic. Very occasionally they do and there's nothing that can be done about that, but even then, chat restrict is useless if they're just going to walk to the center of a lane and press S until they're 0/10. They don't need to talk to do that. For most people, something will happen inside the game that will cause them to become toxic. Whatever that is, the solution is NEVER going to be to limit their communication. When has a psychologist ever said that the answer to a problem is to just suppress it harder and harder. Why should we expect it to work with the chat system.

If someone starts the game by calling people %%%got %%%%%%s and does so for the entire duration of the game, then a chat restriction isn't going to cause them to stop doing this. Besides, what I always say here is "THAT IS WHAT THE MUTE BUTTON IS FOR". I talk a lot in game, but you know what, I can't tie you down and force you to listen to me. If you don't want to read it, hit that mute button.

But we already know that people who do that get perm banned, they don't just rack up more and more chat restrictions like what happened to me and Riot has said that actually saw a lot of what was happening to me happening, which is why they have changed the system to something far more draconic in my personal opinion, far more akin to a 3 strikes and you're out, but that's not the issue at hand here.

The issue at hand is that the punishment I had been given for a thing I did that was at best on the periphery of what is acceptable by the summoner's code was actually making me a more toxic player than I had been without receiving the punishment. I maintain that I am guilty of nothing more than occasionally wanting to win more than I should and having an abrasive online personality that is pretty much guaranteed to rub some people the wrong way some of the time. My attitude hasn't changed in the slightest. I haven't self censored anything since the chat restriction has been lifted. The only thing I've made an effort to do is talk MORE than I did before, because I can now.

I suppose what I'm saying is that Riot needs to really sit down and think about what they want the goals of their punishments to be, because at least in my case, doing nothing would have been better than what they did.

Jubbinaut1 votes

{quoted}

How. How is a system that increases toxicity in some players an effective measure at decreasing overall toxicity?

Let's say you have 100 people who perform some sort of behavior that your community views as problematic. You develop a system to address those people. Upon encountering that system for the first time, 70 of those people stop performing that behavior altogether.

Unless the other 30 people start performing that behavior more than twice as often as they were before, you have - on the whole - decreased the overall amount of that behavior.

I use those numbers because the reform rate of the Chat Restriction system is 70%.

The way the system was set up, I never would have had the chance to find out that it was lack of communication in the first place that was causing so much of my frustration because it never gave me a chance to play without it. I KNOW I'm not the only person who was in this situation.

In a very real sense, though, it wasn't lack of communication - it was ineffective communication. It was the difference between an editor shipping back a manuscript with "THIS SUCKS" scribbled over the front in red ink, and another sending the same manuscript filled with notes and cuts.

I suppose what I'm saying is that Riot needs to really sit down and think about what they want the goals of their punishments to be, because at least in my case, doing nothing would have been better than what they did.

Sure. It's a difficult situation for you. But that's you. Which has been my whole point. So let me be clear: from my very first post, I have been agreeing with you. I have also, however, been pointing out that your experience - and your situation - is not the "normal" experience or situation. That doesn't invalidate it, but it does mean that it's not representative of how most experiences with the system go. And as such, it's not a really great measure of the effectiveness of the system by itself.

Matthias91191 votes

I might get a tad salty, but who doesn't.

If you "have been chat restricted for basically as long as you can remember" then you're being more than a "tad salty".

Unward491 votes

If that is true, then explain why ever since the chat restrictions have been lifted I have not received a single validated report. At no time has the game given me the little popup saying "You have been reported for such and such, blah blah stupid butt hurt children blah blah".

I haven't changed my attitude, the way I'm talking now is exactly how I talk in game.

The only difference that I can see is that now I am allowed to provide full context to any seemingly offensive thing I might blurt out.

Cause that's the other thing. Sometimes I will go too far. I will say more than I mean to. But if I'm chat restricted, you know what? It stays said for a very long time. 5 minutes is a very long time in game time and if I type out "For fuck sakes stop feeding you assholes!" And then 5 minutes later say "Sorry guys, I was just frustrated cause of blah blah and stupid butt hurt feels and stupid unimportant crap and I didn't mean to lash out at you and etc etc" then it sounds super disingenuous and way too fucking late.

If I come right out with the apology immediately, MOST PEOPLE ARE DECENT and they understand.

My point is, yes, I get a bit salty, but all chat restrict does is turn those times when I go too far into further reports. Further reports leads to more frustration, more frustration to more lashing out, more lashing out to more reports, more reports to more chat restrictions and there's a hole in my bucket dear Liza.

And of course, try telling your team you got chat restricted and they instantly assume it's because you're a racist homophobe and will never listen to a single thing you have to say ever.

Remember when those stupid honor things came out? I was one of the first to get a banner for team worker. I fuckin loved that banner, I was so happy to get it because I feel I do play a very team focused style of game. I don't go into every game trying to carry unless the situation means that it's optimal and I like to win because my team does well. If I'm to carry, I prefer it to be through leadership and shot calling and rallying my comrades. THAT'S HALF OF WHY I PLAY JARVAN. That's what Jarvan is all about. Stand with me brothers and sisters, Ours is but to do and die.

Then I had two really shitty games in a row or something where I said some nasty things and from 2 reports, fucking Riot took away my Teamwork banner.

My fucking team work banner.

For a thing that wasn't the least bit connected to team work. Because I used some naughty words and some children got offended that I called them bad.

I was fucking livid! How DARE they. It took probably 100 people vouching for me as a team player to get that banner and 2 people clicking the report button were able to steal it from me. That's the kind of shit that turns salt into actual toxicity. Don't tell me I shouldn't have said those mean things if I didn't want that to happen, I said those mean things because I wanted to win and I wanted to win because I'm a good team player.

Still don't have my team worker banner back yet... Still kinda salty about that...

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