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[Debate] Monster Champs

Sir ArmaMalum·3/12/2014, 4:51:00 PM·3 votes·547 views

Hello and welcome to my weekly [Debate] post. In this post series I outline a subject with LoL, and encourage people to post their own opinions and views about the subject. I hope to spark intelligent, civil and open-minded debate amongst the community. Just in case you don’t know how to do debate that here are the guidelines:

  • Don't dismiss anyone's opinions, opinions are never wrong, you just disagree with them.
  • You are free to disagree with someone always, but always do your best to explain why.
  • Don't get emotional, hopefully we're all adults here, keep it in 'debate' mode. No catfights allowed.
  • Feel free to disagree with my OP as well! I love feedback, but this is a debate thread, I'll respond!
  • There is a comment reply cap! You only have a few tries to rebuttle and argue a point, so make them count!

#Monster Champs

As a game filled with everything from a small pyromaniac little girl to an inter-dimensional tentacle monster to a testosterone-bleeding Spartan, League has more characters and stories than most games out there. This can very easily include Champions that are either only partially or not at all humanoid, and I would like to know your individual take on where these champs should fall on the priority list. This is a lot simpler than my other [Debate] posts, but I still encourage poking other people’s opinions in a civil manner and ask questions to help develop your own point of view.
####In summary, how important are creature champs’ presence to you? Would you prefer them to be a higher priority or lower priority? How about partially humanoid champs (Like Nasus or Cass)?

##Focus Points

###Factors against Non-humanoids
#####---Lack of Empathy
One of the first things that work against fully non-humanoid characters that, inevitably, a human controls and interacts with (you, the player) is lack of empathy. Try as much as you can, but it will always be easier for you to sympathize with someone like Garen, Jinx, Leona, or Lucian than Cho’gath or Kha’zix. Now, this may not seem like it would play too much of a factor in something that isn’t real, and especially in something like a MOBA compared to, say, a novel, but small things like that can move the difference between your favorite champ and “that one with the fun kit”.
#####---Communicating Character
Let me ask you a question. When is Kog’maw angry? How can you tell? Chances are you said something like “When he’s frowning” or “When he glares at you” but that’s what humans do when they’re angry. The fact is, to convey emotion and to communicate other subtle depths of character, monsters have to have avenues to do that. If they go full-on creature mode (very little human-like characteristics), artists and authors have to show their overall demeanor through other ways. Think about a good-guy dragon and bad-guy dragon you’ve seen recently for an example. Does the bad-guy dragon have spikes or spines? Pointy scales? Sharp, aggressive features? I’ll bet the good-guy dragon, even if they aren’t in the same universe, doesn’t. In fact, I also bet the good-guy dragon has large rounded eyes, smooth scales, a rounded muzzle and smaller, less emphasized teeth. These strategies and more are used to help communicate the same things a facial expression or more familiar traits (scars, eyepatch, etc.) can. Obviously this can be difficult for something like League where a new Creature Champ means a new monster archetype and an entirely new ‘species’.
#####---Animations
Simply put, humans walk about the same. So it’s easy to animate. Monsters……don’t walk the same. Some don’t walk at all, some flap wings or skitter on numerous legs. This means animation transitions and walks can be very difficult to create.

###Archetypes
Not saying it’s impossible, but it’s hard to constantly bring new and completely unexplored archetypes. Riot has a huge challenge ahead of themselves, because an archetype made cuts off more choices and other variations. We can’t have two Mermaids, two Basilisks or two Blind Monks now can we? This problem is two-fold for monster champs, as they usually carry additional traits that have to be treaded lightly around. Like Cassiopiea cutting off more snakes and medusa-esq champs, or Nasus making it more difficult for canine archetypes. Anytime a new monster champ can be considered thematically, very very creative ways of making their own niches have to be found.
###Fear
I know this may sound a bit redundant to say, but monsters are scary. That’s what their archetypes stem from, and what their purpose in most stories take. And a lot of people can take that badly, because that’s what the theme is intended to do. As an example, I have a friend that refuses to play Elise because he has a crippling Arachnophobia. I don’t think that’s silly and I respect his boundaries. This in fact it brings up a small, but important factor of monster champs in a game that wants to encourage playing with them. Some people (myself included) actually view using a scary and intimidating champ as a plus. Others however, can be negatively impacted by a champion’s theme, and this has a higher chance of happening with monster champs than most other categories.
Think you know another focus point to add? Tell me! I’ll be happy to add it.

I’ll just ask this here, is there any interest about me posting links to previous [Debate] posts in OP? I realize even with the title pre-fix these can be hard to find, but I wonder if anyone’s at all interested in visiting older posts? Tell me in a comment!

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###Next: Riot and the Community

###All [Debates]

8 Comments

ratcharmer3/12/2014, 7:54:34 PM2 votes

Well, I'd like to see more non-humanoids in league. Here's why:

  • There's already a lot of humans. At a certain point another variation on "wizard" or "guy with a sword" starts getting boring. Your discussion of Archetypes applies just as much to humans as monsters, and I think there's a lot more room left to explore in monsters.
  • I don't need a huge amount of empathy for a character to enjoy playing them. Sometimes it's a lot of fun to just be the mindless killing machine for a while. At a certain point trying to go to in-depth for a character in a game like LoL goes from entertaining to distracting, and then onwards to annoying.
  • Non-Humanoid doesn't necessarily mean "scary". Look at Anivia or the previewed art for Ao Shin. These are both great "monster" characters that aren't the least frightening.
  • The animations aren't necessarily harder. A monster with a thousand legs and tentacles could be a headache to animate, but many other monster archetypes would be much easier to animate than a human running (a ghost who floats along without moving, a slug or snail-like monster who slides along the ground etc.)
Tulare3/12/2014, 8:04:46 PM1 votes

There's a tricky challenge to the implementation of monstrous champions related to the aspects of empathy and communicating character. As a consequence of them being alien, they all have to be very different from one another or they're too hard to tell apart. Despite being human females, Quinn, Katarina, and Jinx are all pretty easy to distinguish from one another. If there were another champion of Kha'Zix's species, would any human eye be able to tell them apart?

The void monster champions are a pretty good example of how to maintain thematic continuity among related champions without them being physiologically similar. There are limits to how many ways that can be done, though. Unfortunately, this means that most monsters remain one-offs rather than offering the possibility of creating multiple unique and distinct monster factions. Their place in the lore, consequently, remains broken up and ultimately a little dull.

Kuroi863/12/2014, 10:01:44 PM1 votes

I'm always open to non-human champs. This gives Riot a chance to flex their intellectual muscle. Monstrous champs aren't required to keep me interested, but they add a nice spice to the game.

Look at the champion Cho'Gath, easily one of my favorites among the non-human champs. What little I know about him makes me wish Riot would release more info on him. When I play him, I empathize on the level of "I want to be a kaiju and wreck someone!" Cho'Gath from my experience is mostly about being big and mean, that is something I can sympathize with. >_^

Now I'm not saying they should forget human champs and just start doing all monster champs, but any time they release a new one, I'm very likely to at least try picking it up.

iJustRengar3/14/2014, 4:51:54 AM1 votes

I personally think there should be a lot more non-humanoids in the game. I love the idea of non-humanoid champions because my favorite champion is Rengar. I also see being an intimidating champion as a plus! I've had people tell me they screamed or gotten super scared when I jump on them, double Q'd and used battle roar, it has a psychological effect on people, even if it's small.

huntsoda3/15/2014, 4:03:28 PM1 votes

I'd say I'm overall pro-monsters, but only if they are good. There should not be a month where Riot rejects all human champions, but there should also not be a push to make more humans. It's a balance I think the game keeps well. For example, after releasing jinx and lucian we got Vel'koz, who is definitely a monster, maybe more firmly than Kha'Zix or Cho'Gath.

I'd like to +1 ratcharmer's comment on empathy not being necessary. While I like the variety of including humans in League, monsters are cool and do open so much design space that you can fulfill a human fantasy better than a human character could. For example, if you really want to fly around like a dog fighter pilot, is Kha'Zix or Corki a better choice? Probably Kha'Zix, because the leap resets allow for constant airborne movement, while Corki has 1 flight path that he needs to save for escapes, generally.

There are also several transforming champions that you failed to mention, such as Elise or Shyvana. While their "human" form contains monstrous aspects, they receive such a radical transformation I wonder if you think they also run into the general lack of empathy (i.e. is an ulted-Shyvana less relatable than non-ulted?)

Runeterra should thrive on tow things: Resonance with traditional high fantasy, and originality. An example of resonance would be Vladimir or Shyvana, because without a vampire or a dragon fantastical settings seem lack luster. At the same time, the Void is a very unique setting for fantasy, because it's an inter-dimensional plane that spawns monsters into a traditional battle of good and evil. I'd actually that the monster archetypes league uses are less obvious as well: if you didn't HEAR Vel'koz, it'd be hard to tell he's an alien, but just looking at lissandra tells you she's an ice witch, or Talon looks suspiciously like an ancient order of assassin. While monsters do probably have to pick resonance ( fulfillment of fantasy themes, like dragons and wizards and werewolves) or originality, they do a good job of bringing in both.

For fear, I think it's a good thing to have some scary champions. Seeing a Sona should feel very different from seeing a Mordekaiser or Ahri. Monsters are used to represent that you need to run away, because they're powerful. Some even use fear to the advantage of their flavor, like Nocturne's paranoia, or Kha'Zix's Q isolation bonus.

Finally feedback on [Debate]. I think it's an awesome idea, but your support category needs a conclusion a la "therefore monstrous champions are bad because they " or 'Monstrous champions add to the game because they ." I'd like to see old post links as well, and thanks for making them Sir ArmaMalum.