Boards›[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Lore Here - How should i see that now?

Decrit··4 votes·920 views

I am talking about http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/creative-spotlight/dev-blog-exploring-runeterra

I must admit, all of that left me really shocked. I have nothing against growth, i recognize that destruction and reconstruction is a sometimes necessary way to operate but... to this degree?

Either i have wrongly intended more serious implications, or we are all getting what for all this time i have speculated as a some sort of LoL2.

How should i see that now the game, the characters, knowing that everything that bound them to the existence on this game is going to exist no more? I was and I am always OK for reworks, because sometimes that does not give justice to the character that can be redone in a better way but that was at some extent concentrated and limitated.

how do you see that, at least? I have not very stuff to say, i an just venting the sudden surprise here... i begin to understand why they delayed a lot this thing. What does this will mean? How should i change the direction of my creativity production over Runeterra ( a production that is' t just my own, in the end)? Should we get way more clearity and about to give more feedback, or let them keep it for themselves in order to not exponentially increase the chaos? I repeat, I am not angry or disappointed, Riot in the end is composed by cool guys that likes to do cool things so probably there will be a cool result, but the transaction disturbs me.

looks at a runeography handwritten manual on the corner YOU HAVE NO VALUE NOW!

18 Comments

Sunfield2 votes

Yeah they are getting rid of summoners and stuff. Everyone saw that coming ever since they started removing champion quotes refering to fields of justice and stuff.

Decrit1 votes

Just read now all their comments, overwhelming to say it least. i am getting used to it, however, it makes a bit of sense even if the total lack of explanation of why 5 dudes and dudettes do a carnage in the middle of an ancient battlefield disturbs me a bit.

Sunfield1 votes

Personally thats the part that leaves me with no hope for the new lore

Flintfall2 votes

I am disheartened we are leaving LoL's roots, and I feel like Riot shot me in the gut because of it.

But, I also see this as an opportunity. Now I can help Riot's team explore the new world they are creating, whether through champion concepts or fan fiction. Now I can be actively be a part of a growing extension that will become the new lore.

We are on boards, we are used to change, often times radical change. I am disappointed that Riot wants to destroy a majority of their old lore, but there's nothing that complaining will do to fix that.

Because I believe that this is just the descent into a chasm, it will be dark and unpleasant, but once we scale back up and reach the other side, we will end up in a better place. And if I can help with that ascension, then I'm ready to leave the old lore behind.

Sneak Dog1 votes

I'm already disappointed in the lore department. I already see everything they do with squinted eyes. This because of the Freljord event, one of the 'new lore' pieces, that went horribly wrong. Partially because it was all hype and no progression but mainly because of Trundle.

They just replaced him with a generic bully, admitted his reception was bad and left him behind. They didn't rewrite his lore to make him this idealistic troll, redo his voice-overs to give him more depth than the power-hungry brute he is now, they just left him as a failure, a generic henchman of Lissandra who will predictably betray her because **he **wants to be king et cetera.

Sometimes, however, we look back at decisions that made perfect sense when we originally made them, but are now at odds with our design values and ultimately limit our ability to continually improve League of Legends. That’s unacceptable, and in such situations we seek to aggressively reimagine content in a way that realizes its full potential.

Decrit1 votes

Trundle player here, i liked his new lore. Hell, the old Trundle was too a brutish, selfish piece of walking shit that in the end betrayed his betrayers and condemned his whole people, while now it' s still brutish and selfish but also cunning and with more personality depth.

About progression, what kind of progression you expected? : P This is a MOBA, story does not go that far because it' s played on the moment.

However that is not the point. I too belive that, after this dark moment LoL lore will have a more glorious moment to shine, at least an occasion to do so; it' s the transaction time that bugs me out : c

Sneak Dog1 votes

The old Trundle lore was about a good troll eager to gain his peers admirance, but who got bullied instead. When he found a way to become their hero, he took it eagerly. Then they still shunned him despite his sacrifice. This made him grow cynical and embittered.

The new Trundle is about a lying troll who wanted to be king. He tried to do this by brute force, but started lying when this failed (like everything he tries...). Then he went on a hopeless quest, bashed some stuff, lied a bit and became leader of his tribe under Lissandras reign. He then tried to become king of all trolls instead of only his own, because he wants to be king and is power-hungry. He will at some point betray Lissandra, what a surprise.

I can see no evidence with the current presentation of Trundle that he is merely the old Trundle in a new setting because the old Trundle never was the power-hungry brute. He may have done all the same actions, but listen to the voice-over, read the way his lore is written and it's not the old Trundle.

But we aren't taking any champion out of the game? I don't feel like that's a fair analogy. I'm not in charge of lore, so you're all set there!

From RiotOpeli

Happy to do it. I guess the best way to sum up our approach going forward is that we want to, in the words of my colleague Glorft, "do no harm, and respect core themes." The key word in terms of what both you guys are saying is "core."

From Tommy Gnox

I don't like the second character, I think it's too generic, but that isn't the point, there's more characters in LoL I don't like. The point is that they removed a character from the League and replaced him with a new character. This is basically what they could do with any character they can't find a spot for in their 'new lore'. This is why I do not trust the new lore department, everything they say points towards preserving characters, but Trundle was not preserved at all.

If they'd just come out and say they'll be replacing characters to make their lore more cohesive, I can accept that and just abandon LoL lore, but as long as they don't, I can't help but be cynical with this shimmer of hope.

Decrit1 votes

While i consider your point of view, i disagree totally with your first point.

He never was a good troll. His tribe was the nicest among all trolls, but still were trolls with their culture. For sure the events inbittered him and when he got the chance to revenge over all his people ( and there we say: ALL HIS PEOPLE. this is not a trait of a bitter character, this is straight up EVIL ) he picked it, and did what was best for him. Not that you could not emphatize with him, to feel pity for him and wish him well let' s be clear, but this is what it was.

The new Trundle was eager to get power, but if you read again the lore it states that "Trundle's warband once followed a foolish and cowardly chieftain. Under such a weak leader, Trundle feared he and his kin would fall prey to the other troll hordes scattered across the tundra." so the power he seeked was a necessity: there is no place for nice people in troll culture, and that belongs either to old and new trundle. He manages to get his chance with cleverness, that at this point makes him different compared to other depicted trolls ( rings any bells ), and at the end of the tale he manages to save his tribe and reunite all the trolls together. With a price indeed.

For sure, given chance, he will betray Lissandra if she treathens his tribe, but never will do that if she does not because it' s thank to her and Trundle that the tribes of the trolls can be together.

They are different, but in the difference lies the similiarity.

Sneak Dog1 votes

I can see the similarities in the backgrounds, definitely, and it could be made the same troll with minor changes to his current lore. Also, he turned evil, he started out relatively good. As for the judgement, best for him would have been to give back the curse and live as practically a curseless troll, he wouldn't be shunned by everyone for being permanently rotting. I think his current lore would be better if they put the same troll in this situation instead of the current bully. Because currently his in-game presentation is all power-hungry brute:

Not troll chief, troll king. King! You can never bash something too many times. The Freljord is mine! I'm gonna crush your dreams... They're in your skull, right?

To pick some quotes that show this perfectly

I'm the troll with the plan Time to start an ice age. Troll with the biggest club gets to be king. That's the rule!

To pick all quotes that don't, I think?

His voice-over just oozes power-hungry bully, nothing at all like the personality old Trundle had or I think would have if he'd been thrown into this situation.

Decrit1 votes

Well he needs to be aggressive, he' s a troll. Don' t get me wrong, he does not need to BE agressive, but TO BE aggressive. Plus, some old quotes i gathered from the wiki

"Let's smash something!" "Let's go clubbing." "How much you wanna bet I can whack you from one fountain to the other?"

there are fewer because he had fewer quotes. Plus while some of your picked quotes reference him to power ( and i don' t deny it) but sure it is about "power hunger"? I think it' s more about imposition, a trait that is alien to old Trundle and that i belive it bugs most the old Trundle lovers.

However, in the sum of all i agree that new Trundle is more imposive and aggressive, while the old one even if still vicious and aggressive had always a joking ( aka Trollish) tone on it. I guess it' s a matter of what you value most, at this point.

It' s good they gave the Traditional Skin, and lucky me that i knew him thanks to the announcement and managed to get him before the rework! :D

Sneak Dog1 votes

Now I think we agree, new Trundle is not old Trundle.

It is infuriating to me though that they present him as though he is, especially because he could have been in the frost setting too. If they'd just admit they'll not only be replacing settings but also characters then I could just give up on the new lore, but they imply the opposite.

Decrit1 votes

However, i don' t feel the concept of Old Trundle as being imposive as a false one, maybe that stops me from thinking of the new one as a different one?

I mean, i would see very well the Old trundle as a more imposive one: he never displayed bashfulness, submission or the sorts but rather he always took decisions, even going against his opressors, and some sort of greatness in his decaying state. I see him as the same characters but with different situations, that then develops different experiences and possibilities. Or i am just behind rose-tinted nostaglia glasses?

Sneak Dog1 votes

Could you use a synonym for imposive? Not sure that's a word?

The difference is that I don't see him as the same character in a new setting. I could if he wasn't as darned power-hungry and greedy. He is now the generic henchman of Lissandra whereas I want him to be Trundle (probably a troll forced into taking leadership for the good of his tribe) and I want the in-game experience to reflect this.

Decrit1 votes

Pardon, i am not english xD however, yes looks like it' s a proper word but i explain: by being imposive i mean something that only with his bare presence alters and subjugates a particolar subject, le tit be an idea, a person and so on; there are many ways to do that for example bullying ( that involves threating or bad treatment in some way ), beign stern ( http://dictionary.infoplease.com/stern ) or by making a show of power but not using it. I think the new Trundle falls in the latter case, while the old Trundle was bullyed out by his kin, but was not submissive; for this reason i see in the difference another similiarity.

To be honest, i don' t see him as the witch' s henchman; he made a bargain outsmarting the ice Witch so he could gather his forces, and he stands on her side as long it is convenient for him. And he is doing that for the good of his people, else they would be beating each other to death ( in particular his tribe ), and while he needs to have and use the power i don' t think "greedy" is the right term.

Sneak Dog1 votes

"Tonight, I'm feeling greedy."

His in-game presentation presents him as greedy.

I'm not sure he really outsmarted the witch, he just accepted an deal that he will inevitably break. Mutual benefit until that point though.

I don't have issues with what he did, I have issues with how he's shown. He doesn't come over particularly cunning, he just lies when he can't beat the problem to death. He doesn't come over like he did it for the trolls, he just wanted to be troll king (not chief, king, king!).

Old Trundle could've done all those things as well, but it isn't who is shown and that is saddening. (Don't pull a perspective card, it's an undetermined objective narrator, not like Gnars lore)

Decrit1 votes

He is cunning! ... for a troll. His quotes are "Outsmart anyone you can't beat, and beat anyone you can't outsmart." after all :D The king stuff that he shouts out i belive are still about being imposive: there is no space for greed in his lore, more about desperate measures. However i agree that the in-game presentation gives you points over that; there can be many ways to be greedy and what it might mean, but since i can' t put the finger on it i guess i' m gonna give you reason for that, since it makes more sense.

Not gonna play the perspective card, we are past that point :D but translating the old Trundle in the tundra could have been problematic: he needed relation, and he needed some kind of power in order to be recognizable as a champion for the league so they just added them to his base lore.

But at this point, if you carry over so much then maybe they pushed too much these changes and actually changed his personality; just a tiny bit, without contradiction, but also showing faces of his personality that were unshown and hiding others obtaining as a result the feel of a totally different champion?

Sneak Dog1 votes

Is it reasonable to retcon a character and replace him with a character that feels totally different? Should I, a fan of the old character, be happy with a character that is supposedly the same but feels like someone else?

I've answered no to this question, so all that is left for me is to either abandon LoLs lore or to plead for change. Because the current ice troll does not feel like the Trundle I got attached to and I am entirely unwilling to invest in lore created by a team that thinks it's fine to replace one of my favorite characters yet still call it the same core universe.

Apologies if I sound harsh, it's just that it's been so long since the Freljord event, the lore department seemed unexistant the entire time and now they reveal this, seem entirely content with their solution yet I see Trundle as the main fault in their plan. If they go ahead with leaving him like this, then they should've just started a new universe in my eyes, because this seems injust to the old lore.

KairosCrow1 votes

Riot has a LOT of work to do if they're going to make this lore update (retconning and deletion) into something that isn't horrible. Because all we have now is a blank slate, and that isn't interesting for anyone.

More from [ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous

Open Letter to Parents of League of Legends Players
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous860 comments
2,611
votes
Rewards for positive play
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous19,712 comments
1,337
votes
I don't like Boards
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous324 comments
809
votes
STOP ALLOWING LEVEL 1 ACCOUNTS TO SEND FRIEND REQUESTS!!!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous291 comments
679
votes
Wanting to do something special for an awesome friend. Riot, please help? <3
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous220 comments
614
votes
People that are telling others to kill themselves has to stop! Please help me get this noticed!
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous605 comments
600
votes

More by Decrit

Preventive suggestion for Jhin @Riot
Gameplay60 comments
265
votes
Riot failed in one obvious thing
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous61 comments
98
votes
I want to let notice a thing about Shen
Story, Art, & Sound17 comments
95
votes
Nami for Katey
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous49 comments
64
votes
Skin Spotlight's video of Ahri japanese VO got removed on youtube
Story, Art, & Sound36 comments
51
votes
There are two kinds of LoL players
Memes & Games62 comments
42
votes