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RIP ANCIENT COIN 2017

Inquisitor Kane·4/15/2017, 8:34:05 AM·60 votes·7,127 views

Hi folks, so Rito published their upcoming changes to tanks, Rift Herald and support items. All sounds good "on paper"... I bet it will make tanks OP or unplayable (since Riot's psychopatic obsession with tanks ends up always like that) but I got really deterred by new Ancient Coin.

From original Riot's post: "Ancient Coin’s existing passive - being near a minion when it dies - is pretty boring and offers nothing to build a quest around. So, we’re redesigning it. Nearby enemy minions occasionally drop coins when killed by anyone other than you, either restoring mana or granting gold on pick-up. (After one coin type has spawned, the next is guaranteed to be the other type.) Collect these coins to complete your quest."

Now there are few problems with this, and clearly once again, some dumbo who never played support was designing this BS. Let's go point by point:

1. You don't buy Coin to have an "exciting" item. You buy it to stay safe and have gold, HP and mana regen for your utility support champinos, so you can stay safe while protecting your carry. Coin is great for this as it is and exciting gameplay depends on WHO you play and HOW you play that champ. It has nothing to do with item. Btw. executing minions with Relic Shield is also boring and not fun. And from mid game its infuriating since nobody lets you proc that passive. So there you go.

2. Quests from the item are useless. I'm a support. I have to watch the minimap, wards, other lanes, ping enemy movement, predict enemy jungler movement, arrange skirmishes bot lane, think about roaming and protect my carry. Last thing I need is some new objective to my game to clutter my mind.

3. Coin drop from minions can't be collected. Now imagine you play your typical "Coin support" like Soraka, Janna, Sona, Nami... (yes sometimes is better than Spellthief even on them). THEY ARE SQUISHIES. You make SQUISHIES to go into the FRONT LINE to get the coins. Now imagine playing against kill lane and having to risk your arse by going into the front just to get the coins. No, thanks, I rather buy Relic Shield and learn to last hit with Soraka than risk going 0/8 in lane because of trying to get the coins form the ground. Or imagine youare being ZONED FROM FARM by enemy lane... with old coin you could be still in range to leech exp and gold. But now you'll be zoned from coins as well and are fcked. This item is now only good for tank supports so squishy supports can go fck themselves. WP RITO.

4. We hate randomness so they adding more of that sht because fck the players, right? Now the coins you are collecting are granting you either mana or gold. Its random. And main reason these items were even brought into the game was MONEY. Support needs money and this item granted you money. Now its a roulette of "so am I going to get 5 mana coins in a row or not?" Sure, you can play around it by leaving always one coin on the ground until 2nd spawns to make 100% sure you have 1 mana and 1 gold coin.... but that is just another inconvenience into already hard life of a support player. And if you collect each coin as it drops, the random factor can make it so that you get too many mana or gold coins making it too unreliable to purchase.

Why, Riot, why???

45 Comments

Anidan4/15/2017, 10:42:33 AM12 votes

Isn't point 4 addressed in that whatever coin didn't drop last will be the guaranteed next coin? It's just alternating from the sounds of it. That's not random at all. It's in the parentheses of the quote you gave, in fact. Unless it's already been shown that one type has to be on the ground before the other forcibly comes up and if there's none on the ground then it's a toss-up, but that sounds needlessly random even for Riot with an item like this.

Everything else is a fair point.

Shadòw4/15/2017, 2:38:56 PM6 votes

oh no now you have to actually interact with your enemy

Linna Excel4/15/2017, 8:34:04 PM5 votes

**Rito A: **I hate traditional supports, how can we force AP mids to take over bot lane?

**Rito B: **I have an idea, let's make the coin line a trash tier item.

**Rito M-DDL-R: **Make it so!

Aldapsayar4/15/2017, 4:54:35 PM5 votes

I pick coin if I am against high amount of poke duo. That rework is just stupid. What if I am up against Thresh/Draven? They are gonna shove and I am with late game ADC how am I supposed to pick up that gold and mana without eating damage? Getting gold without damage is main reason why coin is bought. But hey, its fun! Quests are more INTeresting now huh? I have no idea how support should get gold if your ADC is inadequate now. All support items now require to stay in front line. If you are behind and have to stay under turret, support has miserable gold income now. They are making bot lane even more snowballing now with no chance to comeback during laning. That's ridiculous. And I don't think that Herald rework is gonna change bot lane gangbang meta.

Chembaron Yamada4/15/2017, 11:08:01 PM3 votes

[...] Now its a roulette of "so am I going to get 5 mana coins in a row or not?" [...]

The post clearly states that if you get a mana coin, the next one is guaranteed to be a gold coin and vice versa. So it actually is just random the very first time, every coin after that is alternating between the 2 options.

Krinu4/17/2017, 6:18:50 AM2 votes

Soraka main here. The reason I go coin is for the sustain and safety. If they're nuking both of those, I'll go with the new frostfang - at least my Q will give double movespeed buffs!

PokladnicaZla4/16/2017, 4:10:27 PM2 votes

The swushy supports are just going to end up buying spellthieves edge,if the gold drop isn't really high.Like seriously high... If yes,it's going to bougth by 90% of the support rooster and end up nerded,which will once again make Spellthieves the go gold item for any AP/enchanter supp.

KoKoboto4/15/2017, 9:38:19 PM2 votes

I think you need to account for where minions die and how long the coins stay on the ground before you start napping at the coin mechanic. I don't think Quests will change the gameplay much for you because you don't change how you play by much and than all of a sudden you get a skill point woo!

PotatoKun5/6/2017, 7:44:29 AM2 votes

It does alternate between mana or money but I shit you not I just played a game and didn't see 10 coins for 20 mins. For god's sake PLEASE revert this nonsense. You CANNOT get the coins in any kind of safe way. Making a support who does no damage run into lane to get a -CRITICAL- gold coin is not exciting or fun, it's a sure fire way to trade 30% of you HP for 30g. Lets talk about the RNG. Screw the RNG. Make it at least every X minions static because this has just killed fun in supports. No timing, no planning. Aren't those like two HUGE aspects to this game? The new coin is anti-fun. In fact, just revert all the support items and do this right because you just shoved your fist right up most supports' butt. "We want to show our love for support" Shit job on that line. Christ what were you guys thinking?

2Rods4/15/2017, 9:24:13 AM2 votes

What do u mean get coin from the ground lol

Mouse5344/16/2017, 7:50:35 AM1 votes

I'm actually happy about them implementing the differing quests, it gives most supports an ahead pattern that I think stands out better. Will have to see more info before I hate on it.

As for the mage supports problem, most are DPS based and will be hit with the new adaptive helm. Giving a decent shutdown option for dealing with them.

Tank meta is definitely making a comeback, look forward to seeing more on the reworks.

Wolfeur4/16/2017, 11:06:24 AM1 votes

Now the coins you are collecting are granting you either mana or gold. Its random.

FFS, make some research. Only the first one is random, then it's one after the other.

DNFVixen5/4/2017, 12:10:09 PM1 votes

I am never fucking playing soraka again, i just queued soraka to play her and have to fucking play with this fucking coin and i am vs a blitz and a vayne and i can't fucking collect my fuckiong coins, GG riot. you just killed soraka for me. WORST fucking idea you have fucking had yet.

Dianna Leveret5/5/2017, 3:15:24 PM1 votes

Yes, this support item change is such an indirect nerf to Soraka. I'm a support main and if i buy coin, I'm forced to play with no mana regen and no HP regen, which the old coin gave per minion kill. I have never found myself to be made backing so much as Soraka before. Not to mention it's so risky going out to pick those coins when vs a Cait or Lucian for example, who poke you/dash onto you the moment you step out. I'm not even including their supports. I see no reason why one should buy coin now. It just leaves you useless in lane phase, with 0 mana and hp sustain. The mana coins that drop are barely a substitute and also are hard to always collect.. not worth the risk for 15ish mana. If bot lane wasnt such a clown fiesta with ganks and fights happening there every 2 minutes, I wouldn't complain. But now, my HP and mana just can't keep up with the amount of damage and pressure. At least before i had some passive sustain , which helped me stay in lane longer, healing my adc trough the 78237 ganks per minute. Also i feel the coin gives a far worse income than spellthief. I was vs the most passive Bard ever, who barely poked us and he still was 30-40ish gold ahead in the quest than me and I managed to pick up every mana/coin that dropped. So now maybe it's time to buy spellthiefs on all support, seeing how much more AP they give now, making my shields and heals stronger.

ZT Xperimentor5/6/2017, 8:21:00 AM1 votes

Basically it's a summation of all the original design philosophies, that riot is purposely breaking now days for 'excitement' despite not knowing what that entails. It's like a horror movie that thinks jump scares are all it takes to be scary. Changing the rules to seem interesting, without considering the implications of what's going to happen, or even recall why they were there in the first place.

Mekromaniac5/9/2017, 9:41:12 PM1 votes

This item is the worst support item now. I used to buy it because it gave passive laners a chance, was cheap, gold efficient, and allowed me to bring sustainability to the table.

Guess not.[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Praetor Notorias4/15/2017, 2:36:41 PM1 votes

I'm not so sure that special is going to be as useful as it sounds. I'm curious though. There aren't a lot of supports that are just going to be wow'd with an extra skill point, but some of the squishy ones might benefit from it. Being behind in level sucks cause of the stat difference, but maybe a little extra damage in an ability can even that field a little bit.

If the coins vanish as quickly as thresh's ghosts do, then they can be a liability. So I'm also curious how long they stay on the ground.

Dog Say Miau4/15/2017, 4:18:36 PM1 votes

Soraka aint squishy.

ShadowParker4/15/2017, 4:30:05 PM1 votes

This should be in gameplay, not misc.

Swaid4/15/2017, 6:06:55 PM1 votes

I buy it on Nasus just in case my lane needs to become passive.

6Sfool4/15/2017, 6:18:39 PM1 votes

I like the support quest thing. It gives you more reason to farm your items (I usually got over 1k each game anyway) and it gives supports a little more power. The new Targon's shield, the spellthief ms boost, and Coin's level advantage could all be used nicely (if a bit weak in the coin's case). The only thing I hope is that it tosses the coins a little closer to the player. Supports should be near the adc and the frontline but there's no way an enchanter is walking over the enemy casters.

Aeszarck4/15/2017, 9:45:01 PM1 votes

Have you ever played Rise of Winterchill for Warcraft III? It was a really nice AoS map with lots of cool features, one of them being Coins, which had a chance to drop from the minions and provided another thing for the heroes to fight over in lane. Because the minions gave the players gold as long as they were within range of their deaths (which was implemented so that the heroes could focus on fighting each other instead of killing minions), Coins were a way for one hero could pull ahead of the other. They were pretty exciting and I think the developer did a great job with them. While not exactly the same, these coins have the potential to bring some of that excitement to League. While I understand that you like the passive lane, I don't think very many people enjoy it compared to how much they like the other two support items, and many probably found it pretty boring to lane against someone with Ancient Coin, so Riot probably decided it was not healthy for the game. I'm making a lot of assumptions, so I may not be right at all on the last few statements, but that is the attitude I've seen from my friends towards the item.

rengar vore4/15/2017, 9:51:05 PM1 votes

TLDR: fuck this shit

spicystats4/15/2017, 11:03:18 PM1 votes

If you have to go literally walk over and be on top of it to pick it up, I don't think it'll be great ya.

On the other hand if its picked up from your auto attack range or something then maybe it's bearable.

If the amount of mana / gold it gives is large enough then maybe it's ok for you to have to get close to the coins.

Idk, I kinda want specifics before deciding how it is. The random factor shouldn't be too big, I think they said you get one type of coin and it alternates types from there.

ZmIkSa4/16/2017, 1:39:06 AM1 votes

This change is brilliant because trash and extremely coward boost champions like Janna or Soraka will have to play little improved then full braindead to achieve their goals.