Meanwhile, at Riot HQ

Pythagorean Thm·Dec 1, 2014·87 votes·30,629 views

They discuss how to become a more player centric company.

Edit: KateyKhaos hijacked my thread. ggwp

149 Comments

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201446 votes

While I can't speak on how other teams grab player feedback, I can speak on behalf of skins!

As you've probably seen, we post PBE threads about new content. After a couple days of the content being out on PBE, we collect player feedback from several forums (these boards, S@20, Reddit, Skin Spotlights on YouTube, etc). We compile the feedback in the form of screenshots, quotes, etc, and email them to the team who is working on the skin.

With that being said, there's plenty of feedback that we see and use, but don't comment on. It'd be pretty hard to reply to every comment made about a skin, be it positive or negative feedback.

At the end of the day, we can't make everyone happy when it comes to new content, and from my personal experience, especially with skins. To be honest, it sucks. Making one skin to please everyone is pretty impossible, but we do our best to voice the opinion of players and to try and make as many happy as possible, based on the commentary we see on the boards.

Pythagorean ThmDec 1, 201424 votes

While I can't speak on how other teams grab player feedback, I can speak on behalf of skins!

As you've probably seen, we post PBE threads about new content. After a couple days of the content being out on PBE, we collect player feedback from several forums (these boards, S@20, Reddit, Skin Spotlights on YouTube, etc). We compile the feedback in the form of screenshots, quotes, etc, and email them to the team who is working on the skin.

With that being said, there's plenty of feedback that we see and use, but don't comment on. It'd be pretty hard to reply to every comment made about a skin, be it positive or negative feedback.

At the end of the day, we can't make everyone happy when it comes to new content, and from my personal experience, especially with skins. To be honest, it sucks. Making one skin to please everyone is pretty impossible, but we do our best to voice the opinion of players and to try and make as many happy as possible, based on the commentary we see on the boards.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread. I don't think anyone has a problem with the skins team. It's mainly some of the other teams. Particularly, more recently, the lore team.

By the way, while you're here, I have a question for you. Will Flying Spaghetti Monster Vel'koz ever be a thing? Because I really want it to be a thing.

RavenHuskyDec 1, 20147 votes

I still take issue with the skin team, because there still hasn't been another Lux skin, almost two years after Morello said that he wanted to get another one rushed out in response to Steel Legion. Every thread asking about it has fallen on deaf ears, and it's disheartening to see that Riot hasn't kept their word to us. Is a Christmas skin too much to ask for for a champion that's severely lacking in quality and variety?

kunkudunkDec 1, 20145 votes

If no one has an idea for a skin for her there isn't much they can do. Sure, there are community ideas, but if no one has an idea of how to take them then it doesn't matter. I too want a lux skin, but if there are no ideas then that is how it is. Also there is supposedly an ultimate skin coming out eventually so who knows, maybe it is hers.

Im bad at adcDec 15, 20142 votes

Mistletoe Lux. She's essentially wearing what Misteltoe Leblanc is. Her staff/wand(?) is a candy cane. Her Q shoots out a Wreath that when an enemy gets bound will be shown around them. Her W throws out two ornaments. Her E throws out a present or fruitcake that explodes. Her R shoots a red and white(or green?) beam.

RavenHuskyDec 15, 20142 votes

If Lux ever gets a Christmas skin, I'd think she would look better in a straight candy cane/peppermint theme.

Tapu FiniDec 1, 20145 votes

Some areas of the rework squadron have also been failing to recognize community input as well :/ stashu deathglare

kunkudunkDec 1, 201417 votes

No, stashu has replied a ton to all of you. More than a lot of rioters. I'm honestly surprised he still is doing it. Yeah, we get it, you don't like the cass rework. But many people complaining about it have shown incredibly poor attitudes and behaviors in their posts, going as far as to say he should be FIRED for one thing he has done. Seriously, enough is enough. There does not need to be anymore attacking stashu. Every time he responds people just yell at him. I don't care if you don't like his ideas because they don't agree with yours, the behavior regarding what he has done is excessive.

Tapu FiniDec 1, 20146 votes

Replying to us, and listening to feedback, are completely different things. Anything that goes against his passive or twin fang centric kit is snubbed, despite the fact that 9/10 people want nothing more than to see those ideas go, he won't even acknowledge that it might be time to shift away from them.

And yes, I agree some people have gone overboard. The death threats and requests to have him fired are too much, but to say nothing is to accept his actions, and that's not okay either.

I don't think it's inappropriate to ask someone to step aside when their goals and the desires of the playerbase don't line up, with no intention of compromise.

kunkudunkDec 1, 20145 votes

He has been taking feed back into account, people just don't like the way he is implementing it. People say they want poison to matter, so he makes e buff poison damage (which honestly seems to be rather unclear for those who are poisoned how much damage they should be taking). Do I like all of the changes, not really. Then again, I was never a big cass player. She was a fun lane bully when she was one but other than that I wasn't that invested.

The simple fact of the matter is he is trying. He has to get changes approved by people too. Even if he likes or agrees with community feedback, he can't just throw it into the game. It has to be approved by others as well. People should remember that as he works on it.

And to say 9/10 people want it changed is a bit much. 9/10 people posting on the forums about it hate the changes. Most league players are either indifferent, don't hate it that much and just want it to not be weak, or don't even know it was changed (honestly tons of people don't read patch notes, never really knowing when certain champs change).

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201411 votes

While I can't speak on how other teams grab player feedback, I can speak on behalf of skins!

As you've probably seen, we post PBE threads about new content. After a couple days of the content being out on PBE, we collect player feedback from several forums (these boards, S@20, Reddit, Skin Spotlights on YouTube, etc). We compile the feedback in the form of screenshots, quotes, etc, and email them to the team who is working on the skin.

With that being said, there's plenty of feedback that we see and use, but don't comment on. It'd be pretty hard to reply to every comment made about a skin, be it positive or negative feedback.

At the end of the day, we can't make everyone happy when it comes to new content, and from my personal experience, especially with skins. To be honest, it sucks. Making one skin to please everyone is pretty impossible, but we do our best to voice the opinion of players and to try and make as many happy as possible, based on the commentary we see on the boards.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread. I don't think anyone has a problem with the skins team. It's mainly some of the other teams. Particularly, more recently, the lore team.

By the way, while you're here, I have a question for you. Will Flying Spaghetti Monster Vel'koz ever be a thing? Because I really want it to be a thing.

If I could pick, he'd be a thing tomorrow if I could magically make a skin overnight. Seriously though, I don't think anyone really knows!

DUDE BRODec 1, 20141 votes

I think the OP's image may specifically be referring to how everyone's favorite item (shurelia) was removed for a silly reason, and then brought back a season later for the same reason everyone wanted to keep it in the first place.

Desmond LawDec 1, 20145 votes

I made the image Shurelia used to be a super cool Rioter from way back when. Her icon is Sona, but I wanted to be as clear as possible.

KaishaDec 1, 20143 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/06gGiLhu-theres-something-wrong-with-the-pbe

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201412 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/06gGiLhu-theres-something-wrong-with-the-pbe

Again, only working on the skins team, I can only address major concerns regarding PBE, rather than why x was changed, or why x wasn't changed.

"The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."

That's simply not true. We push content to PBE a couple weeks before it's scheduled to be completed and put in the next patch. With that being said, it's super important that we get player feedback ASAP. If you give us feedback a couple days before we're scheduled to be done (and it's not something that's gamebreaking and absolutely needs to be fixed), chances are, it won't be added / changed.

Keep in mind that when we make changes to content, it needs to be re-tested. For example, if we change, say, one of Snow Day Malzahar's skills, we need to test that skill again on all of his skins, not just Snow Day Malzahar, to make sure nothing got messed up.

KaishaDec 1, 20143 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/06gGiLhu-theres-something-wrong-with-the-pbe

Again, only working on the skins team, I can only address major concerns regarding PBE, rather than why x was changed, or why x wasn't changed.

"The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."

... With that being said, it's super important that we get player feedback ASAP....

You've never once listened to player feedback. Don't pretend like you do. I'd have FAR more respect for devs if you didn't constantly lie every post. At least say 'ya ok, the PBE is just there to sell more skins'.

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201418 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/06gGiLhu-theres-something-wrong-with-the-pbe

Again, only working on the skins team, I can only address major concerns regarding PBE, rather than why x was changed, or why x wasn't changed.

"The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."

... With that being said, it's super important that we get player feedback ASAP....

You've never once listened to player feedback. Don't pretend like you do. I'd have FAR more respect for devs if you didn't constantly lie every post. At least say 'ya ok, the PBE is just there to sell more skins'.

I wouldn't say I'm lying.

Prime example - I collected feedback for Blood Moon Elise when a good portion of players were unhappy with the pink when she initially hit PBE, so we made another revision where she's more red.

Ultimately, players actively voiced their opinions that they didn't like the red and wanted something that was toned back to a more pink tone. Again, I collected that feedback, and the team is discussing what we should do about it now.

We may not actively comment on every post or say thing like "We're changing this because players said x, y, and x", but we're reading the comments and acting feedback where applicable.

Tapu FiniDec 1, 201412 votes

The skins team is definitely one of the more "on it" teams in regards to factoring in player feedback. I don't know why people are giving you guys crap :/

Blood Moon Elise looked very nice in her crimson glory, by the way.

test accountDec 2, 20147 votes

It seems like the skins team is maybe the only team that communicates with players and doesn't lie to their faces? But who knows!

Acolyte of SteelDec 2, 20149 votes

As much as people are saying the pink Elise is lovely, I'm with the people rooting for Red Blood Moon Elise, and here's why...

Right now, more than anything, we need consistancy out of Riot. You can't just come out with pointless Blood Moon skins that have nothing to do with the original premise, and then go changing the color scheme at the same time... You can make another pink skin for Elise. I don't think Blood Moon is the right medium for it.

Mast3rMahanDec 4, 20142 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/06gGiLhu-theres-something-wrong-with-the-pbe

Again, only working on the skins team, I can only address major concerns regarding PBE, rather than why x was changed, or why x wasn't changed.

"The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."

That's simply not true. We push content to PBE a couple weeks before it's scheduled to be completed and put in the next patch. With that being said, it's super important that we get player feedback ASAP. If you give us feedback a couple days before we're scheduled to be done (and it's not something that's gamebreaking and absolutely needs to be fixed), chances are, it won't be added / changed.

Keep in mind that when we make changes to content, it needs to be re-tested. For example, if we change, say, one of Snow Day Malzahar's skills, we need to test that skill again on all of his skins, not just Snow Day Malzahar, to make sure nothing got messed up.

This may be rude to say, but I don't feel like the example of malz changes is a good example. The skins shouldn't be released in a poor state because you were worried what changes it would make to other skins. If you are going to sell these skins to the community, at least do us the favor of making them worth buying. We will wait while you make sure they function properly. Instead of screwing us over, plan a starting time on the skins for an earlier date.

An example of rushed BS skins, Battlecast Skarner vs Battlecast Chogath, I know I have spoke up about him a lot but he was so damn underwhelming that I honestly don't think I'll ever get my hopes up for a skin again. Battlecast Chogath came out a while ago and is pretty on par for a legendary, all his skills have flashy effects, his model and textures are nice and shiney/glowy, etc. Skarner is kind of glowy, but his Q is less visible than a 975 or cheaper skin for him, his W is basically a bubble while the rest of his skins get a crystal armor shell, the rest of the E's are bigger and flashier, and the passive stacks on battlecast are hardly noticeable. The only fancy thing about Battlecast Skarner is his ultimate. Battlecast Skarner should have been a 1350 and we all know it. A small minority is buying that skin.

Anyway, People mentioned ALL of the above points on the PBE and NONE of them were even touched. It was seriously the most frustrating experience I have had giving feedback about anything League related because as mentioned above, it felt like it was too late to make any changes. That thread was only pinned for 2-3 weeks at most and then he was pushed through. That is a terrible amount of time to receive feedback, make changes, and then receive feedback again. There was no reason the battlecast skins needed to be rushed because there was no event, it was just sheer laziness in my opinion.

The boards community is the group that is giving feedback on skins, bugs, gameplay, champions, etc. Yet a lot of us feel ignored. I remember when I first got on GD it felt like our opinion was worth something, yet more and more all I see on Boards is people frustrated that we are getting ignored. As much as I love League and think that the skins can look good, I don't feel like it is worth investing any more of my cash into if we just get ignored when we give you feed back like you guys request. If you guys are going to ignore our feedback, just shut the boards down. At least we wont feel like we speaking to a void when we voice our feedback.

alaskaneagleDec 11, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=7jbZ6GkA,comment-id=000700030000,timestamp=2014-12-01T17:51:48.438+0000)

"The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."

That's simply not true. We push content to PBE a couple weeks before it's scheduled to be completed and put in the next patch. With that being said, it's super important that we get player feedback ASAP. If you give us feedback a couple days before we're scheduled to be done (and it's not something that's gamebreaking and absolutely needs to be fixed), chances are, it won't be added / changed.

Keep in mind that when we make changes to content, it needs to be re-tested. For example, if we change, say, one of Snow Day Malzahar's skills, we need to test that skill again on all of his skins, not just Snow Day Malzahar, to make sure nothing got messed up.

54367

So what you are saying, with exception to the very first sentence is; ""The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."" UNLESS, it's holy sh it going to mess up EVERYTHING.

RiotmoonstonesDec 11, 20142 votes

{quoted} 54367

So what you are saying, with exception to the very first sentence is; ""The PBE appears to be treated as too far down the pipe to actually change anything before it goes out."" UNLESS, it's holy sh it going to mess up EVERYTHING.

Haha, not quite.

If feedback is given after the content has been on the PBE for nearly the whole cycle, there's not much we can do, especially if it's something one or two people really doesn't like. (That's why it's super important to voice both positive and negative opinions about content that's coming out!)

Again, making sure the changes work correctly is a big deal, and takes a bit of time, depending. For example, if we change particles, we have to check the particles on all of the champion's skins to make sure the new skin didn't break anything on the old skins. (Particle theft, it's a real thing, kids!)

TL;DR: The faster we have feedback, the faster we can act on it. In the end, everyone wins.

BlazemanexeDec 1, 20145 votes

I'd just like to note that this for sure is true. The skins team does a really good job at listening to feedback and even has gone far enough to delay skins to try and improve them based on our feedback.

FoggyPawsDec 1, 20143 votes

Are you people NUTS?! S@20 is understandable, a reputable league of legends community, but Reddit? And I SURELY hope you don't collect feedback in the comments section of YouTube... that's just a bad idea :O

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201416 votes

Are you people NUTS?! S@20 is understandable, a reputable league of legends community, but Reddit? And I SURELY hope you don't collect feedback in the comments section of YouTube... that's just a bad idea :O

You'd be surprised - there's some solid feedback hidden in there.

PtarlorrDec 1, 201415 votes

Verrrrry hidden.

DecritDec 1, 20143 votes

As far as i know there it is constructive feedback - where one can expect good points of view - and rage gibberish where one can expect feels.

Like, somebody complains that Yi is too much OP. A feedback analysis could instead identificate that the problem is not Yi, but how the players relate to him and how that makes them feel and what they can do. Just a random example.

Kowe The EwokDec 1, 20144 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted for the worst skinremake ingame - and nothing has changed :/

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201412 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted ofr the worst skinremake ingame - and nothign has changed :/

That was done by another team, so I can't speak to the reasoning on why the changes they decided upon were chosen.

GnomeDigestDec 1, 20144 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted ofr the worst skinremake ingame - and nothign has changed :/

That was done by another team, so I can't speak to the reasoning on why the changes they decided upon were chosen.

A perfect example of why Riot communication is largely seen as a joke these days. Rioter comes into thread speaking in vague generalities. When pressed with the specific issue, they say it not their department. When someone then presses them on a thread relevant issue that is in their department, they still say that cant speak on it lol.

What a joke.

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 201413 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted ofr the worst skinremake ingame - and nothign has changed :/

That was done by another team, so I can't speak to the reasoning on why the changes they decided upon were chosen.

A perfect example of why Riot communication is largely seen as a joke these days. Rioter comes into thread speaking in vague generalities. When pressed with the specific issue, they say it not their department. When someone then presses them on a thread relevant issue that is in their department, they still say that cant speak on it lol.

What a joke.

You may want to read my first post, where I clearly stated I could only speak on behalf of the Skins team. :]

As for the Desperada Cass texture update, that's not something the Skins team had a hand in. All texture updates are done by another team called Champion Update. The Skins team is only focused on making new skins, not updating existing skins. As a matter of fact, the Skins team isn't even responsible for the base skin - that's left up to the Champion team to decide the initial look of the champion.

5G8Nri0B54Dec 1, 20144 votes

Okay now it gets all convoluted. So texture is a whole completely different expertise than skin making? Can't help but feel that there being two separate teams may lead to hilarious miscommunication where Jinx's smooth beautiful skin becomes a wrinkled old lady's.

But can we all just shake hands and just agree on one crucial objective fact? Zac needs a new skin, something that changes him beyond "purple Zac with some whippy things" (roach swarm Zac? stitched zombie Zac?)

On another note, do you think Wukong's new skin posed a little problem for making skins for certain champions?

At the price the skin team or whoever priced him at, he was...really underwhelming. I guess it didn't help that he's not all that popular a champion to begin with, but his kit really doesn't lend itself all too well to legendary skins.

I mean, compared to your average AP champion with all their snazzy spells and animations, what does a kit like Wukong's have to work with that makes it worth that price? A lot of his kit is just the ways a monkey man can swing his stick.

Do you plan on making legendary skins for champions with little to nothing to work with in the future? The most you can do is just make a champion built around some stupid meme like dunking and playing that up. I challenge you to make, say...a skin for Xin Zhao interesting enough to be legendary.

HellioningDec 1, 20142 votes

Okay now it gets all convoluted. So texture is a whole completely different expertise than skin making? Can't help but feel that there being two separate teams may lead to hilarious miscommunication where Jinx's smooth beautiful skin becomes a wrinkled old lady's.

The reason that champion update was re-doing Cass' old skins was because they're re-doing everything related to Cass, and giving her base skin a new texture too. Skins team makes new skins for champs, they don't usually told old stuff.

5G8Nri0B54Dec 1, 20143 votes

Just one of many...MANY casualties of her rework...

RiotmoonstonesDec 1, 20148 votes

Okay now it gets all convoluted. So texture is a whole completely different expertise than skin making? Can't help but feel that there being two separate teams may lead to hilarious miscommunication where Jinx's smooth beautiful skin becomes a wrinkled old lady's.

But can we all just shake hands and just agree on one crucial objective fact? Zac needs a new skin, something that changes him beyond "purple Zac with some whippy things" (roach swarm Zac? stitched zombie Zac?)

On another note, do you think Wukong's new skin posed a little problem for making skins for certain champions?

At the price the skin team or whoever priced him at, he was...really underwhelming. I guess it didn't help that he's not all that popular a champion to begin with, but his kit really doesn't lend itself all too well to legendary skins.

I mean, compared to your average AP champion with all their snazzy spells and animations, what does a kit like Wukong's have to work with that makes it worth that price? A lot of his kit is just the ways a monkey man can swing his stick.

Do you plan on making legendary skins for champions with little to nothing to work with in the future? The most you can do is just make a champion built around some stupid meme like dunking and playing that up. I challenge you to make, say...a skin for Xin Zhao interesting enough to be legendary.

I...I hope Jinx's skin never ends up looking like an old lady's, haha. Having two teams is actually pretty helpful for us on skins. We wouldn't otherwise have enough time to update older skins, since we're usually pretty packed with new content. Champion Update is also responsible for reworks, so they've got a lot on their plate, too.

I absolutely agree with you that Zac needs a new skin. While I can't say if there's a skin in the works or not, I can tell you that he's a champion we're aware of that needs a new skin. Jinx is also high on that list.

In regards to Wukong, I think you mean Underworld Wukong. That skin wasn't legendary, it was 1350 RP. I'm sorry you felt he was underwhelming. About a year and a half ago, we discussed price tiers for content coming out from that point on. It detailed what kind of work went into each price tier. You can check it out here.

One of the reasons he was priced more than a 975 (as listed in that link up there) was because all of his VO had voice processing. That's generally something that separates a 975 RP skin from a 1350 RP skin. He also had a new model and texture, a new recall animation, and new particles.

Again, I can't say what we've got planned, but I do agree with you that making a legendary skin for someone who is melee, let's say Garen, is definitely harder than making a legendary for someone who is particle heavy, like Veigar. I think it can be done, but it would definitely take a lot of thought and planning. Xin Zhao is definitely on the more difficult end of the spectrum, like you're implying.

Handsome KnobDec 2, 20142 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted ofr the worst skinremake ingame - and nothign has changed :/

That was done by another team, so I can't speak to the reasoning on why the changes they decided upon were chosen.

A perfect example of why Riot communication is largely seen as a joke these days. Rioter comes into thread speaking in vague generalities. When pressed with the specific issue, they say it not their department. When someone then presses them on a thread relevant issue that is in their department, they still say that cant speak on it lol.

What a joke.

You may want to read my first post, where I clearly stated I could only speak on behalf of the Skins team. :]

As for the Desperada Cass texture update, that's not something the Skins team had a hand in. All texture updates are done by another team called Champion Update. The Skins team is only focused on making new skins, not updating existing skins. As a matter of fact, the Skins team isn't even responsible for the base skin - that's left up to the Champion team to decide the initial look of the champion.

So, who was responsible for the updated Junkyard Trundle? It was more than a texture update, it's practically a new skin and, thus, I have a problem with it. It's not what I payed for and it's the reason I don't spend money on league anymore. I'd really like to talk to someone about that.

RiotmoonstonesDec 2, 20143 votes

B..b...but Desperado Cassio? She already was voted ofr the worst skinremake ingame - and nothign has changed :/

That was done by another team, so I can't speak to the reasoning on why the changes they decided upon were chosen.

A perfect example of why Riot communication is largely seen as a joke these days. Rioter comes into thread speaking in vague generalities. When pressed with the specific issue, they say it not their department. When someone then presses them on a thread relevant issue that is in their department, they still say that cant speak on it lol.

What a joke.

You may want to read my first post, where I clearly stated I could only speak on behalf of the Skins team. :]

As for the Desperada Cass texture update, that's not something the Skins team had a hand in. All texture updates are done by another team called Champion Update. The Skins team is only focused on making new skins, not updating existing skins. As a matter of fact, the Skins team isn't even responsible for the base skin - that's left up to the Champion team to decide the initial look of the champion.

So, who was responsible for the updated Junkyard Trundle? It was more than a texture update, it's practically a new skin and, thus, I have a problem with it. It's not what I payed for and it's the reason I don't spend money on league anymore. I'd really like to talk to someone about that.

That would be Champion Update as well, I believe. They also handle reworks and visual updates for champions.

(This was wayyy before my time at Riot - I've only been here for half a year.)

FatedTitanDec 2, 20143 votes

When Trundle was downgraded, I contacted Support and they refunded by Lil' Slugger Trundle. You should contact them.

JamnonDec 2, 20141 votes

But you can comment why nothing has been done to address it.

RiotmoonstonesDec 2, 20149 votes

But you can comment why nothing has been done to address it.

What are you referring to specifically?

ImpetualDec 2, 20141 votes

[deleted]

RiotmoonstonesDec 2, 201413 votes

Then why the pointless post? Let someone who knows what they're talking about comment.

Stop creating unneeded clutter on these boards. (The point of this post is to try to discourage pointless Rioter posts that add nothing to the discussion. This initiative may very well prove to be pointless, so let the hypocrisy ensue. Although Riot, you should keep in mind that a useless Riot post is worse than a useless player post, as more attention is drawn to it.)

Riot please, we love community interaction on your part, but for your own good, don't have Rioters posting when they have nothing constructive to say!

Can't make everyone happy. Honestly, I'd rather comment to something, rather than leaving players thinking I'm ignoring them.

KoboldDec 2, 20143 votes

Can't make everyone happy. Honestly, I'd rather comment to something, rather than leaving players thinking I'm ignoring them.

I think its more that we are told to wait for a specific Rioter or person from a specific team but never get a response on the issue. Some Rioters say they pass along the message but we as people outside of the company don't get to see it happen or if the Rioter just ignores us to begin with. There are too many unknowns for us when it comes to communication with Rioters as we are told to wait for a response but sometimes never receive one.

Beats29Dec 2, 20146 votes

I understand it isn't your fault, and nothing to you personally (even if I'm sad with you ignoring me when I did the thread on reddit about Ravager Noc but w/e), but I must agree with the OP. Sona rework was just an example. When Fearless was reworking her, instead accepting players opinions, all he did was to explain and try to make players accept his ideas. He never changed anything, he simply wanted players to accept.

Sona's problem never was a playstyle thing. It was a numbers thing, you simply nerfed her too much and that's why she wasn't played, you simply don't want a support dealing damage, which I don't see which is the problem, we already have enough viable options on support and Sona before nerfing granted one thing: Diversity. Now, on the things she can do, there's always one champ who excels on something she does. And since her rework was already dealing damage as before, you simply made the same thing on last patch. And she will return to the same position as before.

Again nothing to you personally, and also must say that I'm using Sona only as example, I like her (even though I don't play her much), but there're many other examples people can give. Skarner or Cassio rework, the turret changes on patch 4.1, the increase of knockups, no items to help immovale adcs like Ashe, etc etc. You guys when making most decision don't thing about what players say but what you simply think, and just decide if your opinions are the same. I understand many people speak randomly and QQ without knowing, as well usually people tend to hate changes, but when something is general you must start to realize that something is wrong. Or people simply will stop to think that you're being serious.

RiotmoonstonesDec 2, 20146 votes

I understand it isn't your fault, and nothing to you personally (even if I'm sad with you ignoring me when I did the thread on reddit about Ravager Noc but w/e), but I must agree with the OP. Sona rework was just an example. When Fearless was reworking her, instead accepting players opinions, all he did was to explain and try to make players accept his ideas. He never changed anything, he simply wanted players to accept.

Sona's problem never was a playstyle thing. It was a numbers thing, you simply nerfed her too much and that's why she wasn't played, you simply don't want a support dealing damage, which I don't see which is the problem, we already have enough viable options on support and Sona before nerfing granted one thing: Diversity. Now, on the things she can do, there's always one champ who excels on something she does. And since her rework was already dealing damage as before, you simply made the same thing on last patch. And she will return to the same position as before.

Again nothing to you personally, and also must say that I'm using Sona only as example, I like her (even though I don't play her much), but there're many other examples people can give. Skarner or Cassio rework, the turret changes on patch 4.1, the increase of knockups, no items to help immovale adcs like Ashe, etc etc. You guys when making most decision don't thing about what players say but what you simply think, and just decide if your opinions are the same. I understand many people speak randomly and QQ without knowing, as well usually people tend to hate changes, but when something is general you must start to realize that something is wrong. Or people simply will stop to think that you're being serious.

Okay, I'm going to try to comment on this as intelligently as possible. I'm horrid with balance, numbers and everything related to gameplay balance and health. It's probably a really good thing I only help make things look pretty. >_>

As a Sona main, I can understand where you're coming from. I actually dropped her for Nami for a long time 'cause I didn't feel as powerful/successful with Sona until her rework. Now, I play her a crap ton 'cause let's be honest, Lich Bane Sona does a lot of damage.

You hit the nail right on the head by saying 'people hate change.' I'll be the first to admit that I can be one of those people. (I was super pissed when we changed the name of Lux's ultimate... buuuut, I learned to deal with it.) I know we've been trying to put more changes on the PBE sooner (i.e. Sejuani changes most recently) to get things out there, and let players talk about/play with the changes rather than springing them on live and having people blindsided in game, especially ranked.

I can understand your frustration, and it's likely echoed by more players. I wish I was a bit more knowledgeable on this subject to speak to it a bit more. :c

MotajoDec 3, 20142 votes

I was super pissed when we changed the name of Lux's ultimate...

You... I like you

ConnceptDec 11, 20141 votes

You could make everybody happy, if your company would be honest in dealing with customers unsatisfied with the changes you make.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JotL73hm-new-official-riot-policy-no-refunds-for-redesigns

RiotmoonstonesDec 11, 20144 votes

{quoted} You could make everybody happy, if your company would be honest in dealing with customers unsatisfied with the changes you make.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JotL73hm-new-official-riot-policy-no-refunds-for-redesigns

I'd say we've been pretty honest. In June, we made an official post on the boards explaining our decision. This information is also stated on the Champion Update page, as well as the Content Refund FAQ.