Let's talk about Hawkshot

Sir ArmaMalum··4 votes·353 views

So Hawkshot has always been a personal pet peeve of mine. Completely my own opinion I realize, but the fact that Ashe has an ability (active) that with proper warding and map awareness I can largely go without using for an entire game is frustrating for me. The gold passive change (1/2/3/4/5->3) is great don't get me wrong, but it also means I have absolutely no reason to level Hawkshot until I am absolutely required to.

What I'm trying to get at is there needs to be a reason to use Hawkshot that Blue trink, wards, shrooms or general map awareness won't do. If you recognize my name I tried doing a similar post earlier in the month with this same request, and I got a lot of great ideas as well as feedback on my own. Through this I realized simplicity is the key, as well as attention to the current meta-pains of the new season.

As such, how about this: Hawkshot's AoE gives true vision for the duration. Simple, easy, doesn't change the ability almost at all, but does provide Ashe a niche as a possible counter against a stealth comp. There are tuning balances that can happen such as reducing the AoE or increasing the travel time or increasing the cooldown, but this change is essentially a long range item 3159. This will make Hawkshot have a use case other than "I wonder if someone's over there" but it can still be used for that without feeling like a sacrifice.

I can justify all day long, but what matters is feedback and thoughts. What do you think about this idea?

11 Comments

Roaranor2 votes

How about increasing the duration of the vision over the given area to act as a sort of miniature ward. Hawkshot travels to reveal a targeted area, then an untargetable unit (Hawk, I guess xD) perches to give true vision for 5/7/9/11/13 seconds. The numbers are, of course, open to change.

Another idea, which I'd assume has been suggested often, would be to make Hawkshot global instead. This would open the door for a really strong synergy between Ashe and her team's jungler, and give her the option to help avoid potentially successful ganks against her other lanes.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Actually making it global was not mentioned that often, that's not a bad idea, but I doubt it'll be a popular notion to give two global abilities to one champion.

As for increased vision duration, I can get behind that. I lean closer to the true vision simply because it can have a significant impact on a teamfight if you're against a Kha'zix, Vayne, Twitch, etc.. It's a choice between more extended team utility or much shorter but higher capacity (risk/reward) effect.

That's just me though, I can see both working for their own reasons.

Rhyto1 votes

Yeah I've never seen much use for Hawkshot other than just making everything flashy for a moment and of course the occasional warding and temporary clairvoyance. But yeah I'd like to see at least something that makes it worth using it even with the "No Cost"

ChiTenshi1 votes

What about giving it a small slowing effect to all enemies in the impact area?

I think this combined with the true vision idea would make an excellent way to reduce the risk of ganks, especially with stealthed champions. It's also good for when her ultimate is still on cooldown and you're trying to catch an enemy player.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

That, along with raw damage and even an intersting "infinite aa range" mechanic were some of the things suggested in my PBE thread and it's not a horrible idea, but they all run into the same problem as my original idea in the aforementioned thread. You wouldn't be using Hawkshot for vision anymore, it would be a spell used for it's slow that then also happened to give LoS. I love the idea of a really long ranged, no damage slow spell but it would change the intuitive purpose of the current Hawkshot if implemented. (I hope I'm using that term correctly as I am not a game designer in any form)

Mandaari1 votes

I'm not a fan of giving it true sight and making her niche, but I do have a suggestion I've tossed out before (copy pasta inc):

Give Hawkshot 1/2/3/4/5 mana regen per 5 for 10 seconds upon killing a unit in addition to its current passive. Ashe now has a reason to level it up earlier because she can have more mana in lane. More mana in lane means more volleys. More volleys means a stronger lane.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Right direction, Ashe does have a weakness mana wise, but I'm hesitant about giving her two passives on her E. If we took the gold passive and buffed the mana regen, it would make support Ashe almost viable though. Not a bad idea but we'd be heading into rework territory if we switch too much around.

Mandaari1 votes

She needs to be in rework territory, but I was keeping this related to Hawkshot. I'd be fine taking away the gold passive and giving her a mana regen passive. Then lower the base damage on her ult and give her a steroid for her actual passive.

See this for a lot of existing Ashe discussion.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

I can agree to all of that, and I'll be honest I never considered base stats. My problem was solely Hawkshot because as I said "pet peeve", but that doesn't mean I agree with how Ashe's current state is. +1 for your post because it makes sense, and the keyword "Riot Bait" list was brilliant as well, wp sir.

Roaranor1 votes

This sounds a lot like pairing her up with healing support for a sustain lane, which actually sounds pretty nice. It goes hand in hand with the idea that she isn't meant for early game domination.

Michicha1 votes

There are some changes on the PBE that make the gold gen a flat 3 gold at all ranks. True vision would cause the ability to be nerved in terms of numbers and probably get rid of the gold passive entirely, mostly because it would be to strong. They are making the cool down reduce per rank now, so it'll be more spammable I like using it when I'm chasing enemies and lose vision in their jungle. I think all it needs after these changes in the blue trinkets effect, it reveals all champs (not true vision) for 5 secs after they walk out of the cloud.

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