Nearly 600k points with Sion and you slap me in the face with this new "mastery" system

Ben Sharpio·May 29, 2016·109 votes·7,939 views

This system isn't about how skillful you are with a champion, it's about how lucky you are with this stupid ass Hextech system. I have around 6 skin shards, AND 600k mastery points with Sion on my account just sitting there marinading for nothing, and not only that, but the S system is complete ASS for anyone who isn't playing carry champions. Am i missing something here? Do you guys understand how difficult it is to earn above an s, or an s- as a non-carry champ? It's nearly impossible. I play a tank, and i die for my time to protect them, but I get punished for it. I mean hell, look at this super awesome, A level game where we got nearly every dragon, a baron, every turret, first blood, donated nearly every buff, landed nearly EVERY ult:

http://imgur.com/hSv4RBR

No S, but of course, annie gets it, lux gets it. Like, seriously. This system isn't for 1 tricks, this isn't for people who want to prove that they know how to play a champion, it's for people who have money to blow on chests, and have enough luck to get blue essence.

So from yet another 1 trick pony, i give Riot 2 middle fingers for this crap system.

Thank you fro reading.

162 Comments

DaenMay 29, 201625 votes

This system isn't about how skillful you are with a champion, it's about how lucky you are with this stupid ass Hextech system.

Agreed.

I mean hell, look at this super awesome, A level game where we got nearly every dragon, a baron, every turret, first blood, donated nearly every buff, landed nearly EVERY ult.

I find that for tank junglers the farm requirement may be a bit too high. I've had games just like the one you linked where I only get As or A+s as Zac, and I don't think I've ever gotten anything higher than that on him in the jungle.

That being said, I took him top and it took me three games to get all the S-s I needed for my Mastery 6 tokens, seems a bit imbalanced comparatively.

Ben SharpioMay 29, 20162 votes

Interesting...

Jet SettMay 29, 20168 votes

I went 10/1/30 as Zac once but I didn't get an S or even an S-. I think it was my cs, but that's really high requirements for an S.

A LiberalMay 29, 201618 votes

One time I went 0/0/18 as support Orianna and got an A. Oh and I can't forget my 1/0/30 game as soraka where I got an A+

hahahahaha

mastery is so fun for supports

CarameI FrappeMay 29, 20167 votes

2 / 0 / 17 as Leona and I got an A - .... despite buying 3 pink wards, destroying every ward enemy support laid out, and placing wards around the map while securing towers / dragons / baron. Like what do I have to do, give blood in order to obtain a sticken S-???

elon wątrobaMay 30, 20161 votes

3/1/19 s+ blitz

LICENSED HOOKERMay 30, 20161 votes

Its virtually impossible for supports

I got an S- once as thresh and the only reason was because i had 50~ cs around 40 minutes in, my kda doesnt really matter at this point.. went 0/0 as you said and still no S

What makes it so annoying is i have 122k thresh mastery points, yet only 1 S- and a bunch of fucking A's

SirArcticWarfareMay 31, 20161 votes

I managed to get 2 S ranks last night as thresh.

Just Drop wards Every time they are available. constantly throw lantern ( shield buff)

Q and E for CC and let your teams get the kill. most supports are the same. if you ward, and I mean WARD you are almost definatly Garen tied a S

LF AnnieMay 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Q and E for CC and let your teams get the kill. most supports are the same. if you ward, and I mean WARD you are almost definitely teed a S

ftfy.

japan hate accMay 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I went 10/1/30 as Zac once but I didn't get an S or even an S-. I think it was my cs, but that's really high requirements for an S.

That's nothing. I went 23/0/9 as Talon and got an A. Like wtf is there more to do??

VerdadeMay 29, 20163 votes

stomps are devauled

RottedApplesMay 29, 20161 votes

i have a teemo game that is 23/3 and another that is 22/7 and both were S's both games were ended with 10k or so gold lead.

There was probably another reason to why he didn't get an S or the system was just being a dick.

japan hate accMay 29, 20161 votes

Yeah, I'm not sure why I didn't. I warded a lot too, and took objectives.

SinlaireMay 29, 20162 votes

Creep score is also counted in your values. I've seen a buddy of mine who mained AP Ekko (not that tank bullshit) all the way into gold just yesterday nearly all by himself and he's had games like that. and then i notice his creep score was total ass because he just spent all game running between lanes ganking everyone and not really shoving anything.

He was there for towers, inhibs, and dragon, but he only farmed champions and failed to play all key components of the game.

if you ever have a stomp and get a low grade, check your CS. if you want an S you need to average 40-60+ per 10 minutes depending on your champ (Assassin, Marksman, Tank) otherwise you probably wont get it.

japan hate accMay 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Creep score is also counted in your values. I've seen a buddy of mine who mained AP Ekko (not that tank bullshit) all the way into gold just yesterday nearly all by himself and he's had games like that. and then i notice his creep score was total ass because he just spent all game running between lanes ganking everyone and not really shoving anything.

He was there for towers, inhibs, and dragon, but he only farmed champions and failed to play all key components of the game.

if you ever have a stomp and get a low grade, check your CS. if you want an S you need to average 40-60+ per 10 minutes depending on your champ (Assassin, Marksman, Tank) otherwise you probably wont get it.

I had 135 cs.

SinlaireMay 30, 20161 votes

in a 20-25 minute game thats good. in a game over 30 thats low.

My brother got an A+ one game where he stomped like you did and had over 200 CS. but it was a 50 minute game where he should have broken over 300 and he was the only strong player holding it together.

CS'ing isn't just important early game. it's important at all stages of the game. I even won a game by CS'ing well past mid game by doing so on Draven .

My team couldnt peel for me and i got focused in every engage. so i left my team and cleared waves for 15 minutes and left any time an enemy or ally got near. I finished an item, bought two more, and then kept myself alive in fights with my damage and lifesteal. CS can never be looked down upon. it's an objective too.

VerdadeMay 29, 20162 votes

10k difference is not a stomp.

Team score in stomps is often 40:5 or similar. Games you got 23/3 and 22/7 were probably close as far team go, only you were really fed and ahead.

As far as i can tell, system looks at preformance of both teams and THEN at your individual preformance

JRobin31May 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I went 10/1/30 as Zac once but I didn't get an S or even an S-. I think it was my cs, but that's really high requirements for an S.

What's this? Another KDA post? Meaningless statistic is meaningless.

Many players think that the S grade should be awarded for their high KDAs, but the reality is that this statistic isn't that meaningful. What if someone intentionally fed you 35 kills? Do you think it would earn you an S grade?

Hue hue Hue.

Itadaki SeiekiMay 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What's this? Another KDA post? Meaningless statistic is meaningless.

Many players think that the S grade should be awarded for their high KDAs, but the reality is that this statistic isn't that meaningful. What if someone intentionally fed you 35 kills? Do you think it would earn you an S grade?

Hue hue Hue.

Actually, the way Mastery Works is based off of AVERAGE scores for that champion. Meaning, If the average for Zac in this respect is 5/2/14 ( Just a random number, ) and this Zac went 10/1/30 - That SHOULD be an S, however due to CSing and warding, or lack thereof, he got an A-.

JRobin31May 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard to Master,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=5Q1vnijp,comment-id=0003000100020000,timestamp=2016-05-30T14:48:36.874+0000)

Actually, the way Mastery Works is based off of AVERAGE scores for that champion. Meaning, If the average for Zac in this respect is 5/2/14 ( Just a random number, ) and this Zac went 10/1/30 - That SHOULD be an S, however due to CSing and warding, or lack thereof, he got an A-.

Here's a link that should help anyone trying to score an S.

In the meantime, meaningless statistic remains meaningless and 10/1/30 does not an S score make no matter what the average is for that champion. Thank You.

CoronaGulpMay 29, 20164 votes

Ratings D C B A S, are give to you based on the average performance of players. IF you play sion top, your scores are being compared to the scores of people who play sion top in your elo. Sorry if the truth hurts. All stats are included in this calculation, including Damage Taken, for tanks.

DaenMay 29, 20165 votes

{quoted}

IF you play sion top, your scores are being compared to the scores of people who play sion top in your elo. Sorry if the truth hurts.

"That being said, I took him top and it took me three games to get all the S-s I needed for my Mastery 6 tokens, seems a bit imbalanced comparatively."

I believe you may have missed the point here slightly. I think what the OP is going for is that the algorithm seems oddly weighted against tank junglers, where a similar level of performance in other roles with the same champion would usually indicate a higher mastery score. My theory is that farm (cs) is weighted more heavily than would generally be expected, but there's definitely something going on with it that seems to value certain playstyles over others.

For example, I play a lot of jungle Zac and I don't think I've ever gotten an S- or higher on him while playing him in the jungle. I've had games with scores like 10-2-13 where I have the most gold in the game without getting an S-, so either there are Zac players that are gods among men or they have a different playstyle that the algorithm values more.

CoronaGulpMay 29, 20163 votes

You're right, Cs has a lot to do, because it's the fountain that contributes the most to a Champion's obtained gold. You will find that there is more variety between kills in games, (when speaking of a certain champion), than variety of CS in games, when speaking of the same champion. Keep in mind that these gold values are taken Per minute of the game. So there are gold values for minute 2, 3, 4, 30, etc. This is to compare these values, not just gold, for all game lengths, throughout the game.

Allow me to explain some things: if you are destroying your lane and killing the same champion over and over, and decided to chase them into the jg bc they are an easy kill. you're sacrificing crucial time that you could have been using to obtain resources and gold: (cs, xp, pushing lane to result in towers, which gives your minions resistance, to further push, etc.)

So although you can end a game with lots of kills, they don't all mean more gold, and therefore hurts your overall rating if your "gold obtained" starts to slow down because of it.

For tanks specifically: there is a ratio of damage dealt to damage taken. This is why tanks last longer in fights, and why assassins last least, (in theory as gameplay, decisions and skill, are what ultimately decides what happens)

The system takes into account the items that you build. Try getting an S rank with full AD items, as an ADC, and only Ksing. You won't, because as champion that has low damage taken, high damage potential, and low damage dealt stats, all indicate Kill steals*

So when you're a tank, and you build tanky, and you're not taking in damage (peeling) as well as you should be, then that's going to reflect it.

Keep in mind also, that the system takes into consideration the performance of your team as a whole. You'll find that on teams where one person carried, that one person might receive the S but, even though you did everything you were suppose to do, you didn't receive an S, that's because he might have "Outshined you"

What does this mean:

It means that on games where your top laner is destroying in 1v3, its going to be easier to obtain good performance against a team that's already behind, so it will be harder for you to obtain your S, this is to prevent "free rides," and you might just be a victim of this. Which is implemented to be fair.

so....

games are usually like this:

One person is the clear carry, so everyone preforms well (he carries the team) but you don't receive the S (one sided S)
Everyone is doing about the same, everyone's kill participation is about the same, and everyone's doing their damage dealt, gold, and damage taken according to their items, and they all out preformed not just the enemy team but the average team, and the average individual roles of their champions. (the whole team gets S rating)

Nobody is excluded from these two types of game styles that are seen in the system. Being said, I believe this disadvantage that you perceive for Tanks have to do when your ADC is really fed.

If your ADC is really fed, (or mid mage/assassin) and is doing all the damage on your team. it's difficult as a tank to absorb damage.

But this ties in to the end style number 1 above, where one person is the clear carry, and although it seems like you should get an S for performing well, remember that the system takes into account the fact that the carry is having the most impact on that game.

The same can be said to an ADC that lost lane and has no damage and can't even join the team fight because he will die instantly, or couldn't farm in lane.

Solutions: tanks build aggressive items, adcs build tanky sustain items.

So to conclude. S ratings are independent impacts of every game, compared to the average of every game, to their champion's average in the role you picked, and to your relationship to the team. Your stats are all taken into account, and the most important aspect that you can learn from this is that..

It ultimately measures how well you can adapt to the game. Build what is needed, adjust game strategy (builds) accordingly, in order to achieve the above average performance needed for the rating.

AeszarckMay 30, 20162 votes

Very well written.

Jhin My SightsMay 29, 20168 votes

I mean the reason you didn't get an S that game is because you had 74 cs compared to their jg with 118 cs even though he was way behind you. I've noticed that cs is more important than kills and assists when it comes to getting a good grade.

RogueWillMay 29, 20163 votes

I have no problem getting S with Tanks...

http://s33.postimg.org/ntqi4i7mn/tokens.png

Aeolian MelodiesMay 29, 20167 votes

As a Janna main I feel you. It feels so retarded that I have to KS (which a good support should not do) out of my mind to get tokens. I should be getting them for playing a good Janna - lots of assists, few deaths, good participation in objectives and good vision control. Nobody should give a F about my damage to champs and how many random kills I snagged.

{quoted}

I have no problem getting S with Tanks...

http://s33.postimg.org/ntqi4i7mn/tokens.png

Out of them only Sej is an actual tank. Vi is a bruiser, Annie is a mage, Diana is either an assassin or an AP bruiser depending on her build.

LadayenMay 29, 20162 votes

I wish they'd give some indicator as to what needs improvement. The only thing is maybe place more wards. Just get into the habit of using that trinket.

Ben SharpioMay 29, 20163 votes

And that new system that their adding where you can buy mastery tokens STILL has nothing to do with actual champion mastery...

ApogalacteumMay 30, 20161 votes

You can't buy the mastery tokens. They're adding random champion shards for IP instead of only being able to earn them through hextech chests.

KoKobotoMay 29, 20162 votes

You you werent able to get S because of low farm and it sucks because as jungle you sometimes have to give up farm in order to help the team

VerdadeMay 29, 20161 votes

No, his farm sucks. That game ended at 30th minute or so, people tend to have well over 250 CS by then in my games.

Qiyeanu ReevesMay 29, 20164 votes

No...? OP is jungle and yes his farm is bad, but for your 30 minute length games junglers usually had around 110-120.

VerdadeMay 29, 20162 votes

His stats are not getting compared to his/enemy team, they're compared to other Sion players.

DatalessMay 29, 20162 votes

Try getting S ratings on Bard .

resumedMay 30, 20162 votes

ive gotten several s+s w/ bard ^^

elon wątrobaMay 30, 20161 votes

Already got him on 6 lvl, and im not OTP.

DatalessMay 30, 20161 votes

I finished grinding out my level 7 last night, thankfully the Mystery Box gods graced me with so many champion shards I could simply disenchant them all and have the 1100 required essence right away. I feel bad for people who weren't as lucky.

Positive PoppyMay 30, 20162 votes

It grades you in terms of how you do compared to the average score of that champion per game. Let's say the average score for teemo is 5-4-8 & 100 cs. Depends on how many kills/deaths/cs you have you'll be graded differently. People saying you need to be playing carry champions? No I got a S+ on my first ranked Janna game and even a S or S- maybe on Nami after a few games, and I don't even main support. I'm only in B2 rn as well, not like I'm Fakerlift or something.

LankPantsMay 31, 20161 votes

I'm only in B2 rn as well, not like I'm Fakerlift or something.

It grades you based off of your own rank. As a B2 player you're getting graded VS people from B1-B3. You don't have to play like a Diamond player, the system doesn't expect that.

Positive PoppyMay 31, 20161 votes

Ohhh, that would make just as much sense I suppose.

CoronaGulpMay 30, 20162 votes

You'll find here, http://postimg.org/image/ayu1s3g8b/

That it shows not only that Annie did more Damage than sion (which is to be expected) but that Sion farmed a total of 18 jg creeps, 6 enemy jg creeps, and 49 minions.

Annie on the other hand, from this photo here, http://postimg.org/image/nepuj3bor/

Farmed 160 minions, and 14 jg creeps, has the same gold as the sion, and half the kills. But look at her damage done!

Sion should have more gold, both from farms and Kills, but this isn't true because his stats indicate he didn't farm correctly, and that he KS a lot (look at damage dealt to kills)

18 jg creeps on a JG is not an S rating. No matter what your KDS is, especially since you don't even have the damage dealt that reflects that KDA. Remember you're being compared to the average sion JG in your elo.

TerozuMay 31, 20161 votes

YAY ANOTHER PERSON WITH LOGIC!

Dr PoroMay 29, 20161 votes

Agreed. Mastery should be about:

how much you played a champ
how well you do with that champ

Not about:

How much money you have
how much ip you have (once you can buy shards with ip)

I would like an ip sink as I nearly have all champions, but this is not a place for it as ip has nothing to do with mastery.

The blue essence requirement should be changed to mastery point requirement. Riot seriously failed to deliver on this one. People complained about it the moment it entered PBE, yet, it went through. Worst thing is, it's way harder to revert something like this than a messed up champion/item. There's just no way going back now.

KitsuneTricksterMay 29, 20162 votes

it is, you need 2 s ranks, the only part i disagree with is that i had many other s ranks already but they did not count.

CoronaGulpMay 29, 20161 votes

You don't need chests or keys to get mastery level 6 or 7.

JariMay 29, 20161 votes

You need Blue Essence or the shard of the chamion.

Or did I miss this update where you get Blue Essense for winning games?

CoronaGulpMay 29, 20161 votes

You need to play enough games to earn IP which you buy champion shards with. These champion shards are disenchanted into blue essence. Not once did i spend money, use a key, or open a chest.

This is how the system has been designed since the beginning and here is the original announcement when Mastery levels 6 & 7 both came out to the Live Servers, in the Patch Notes under the tab "Champion Mastery"

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-610-notes#patch-champion-mastery

You'll notice it explained that in this two system part of Participation and Performance, The Performance: is the result of the S ratings and & The Participation: is the result of collecting the IP needed to buy champion shards...

Champion shards = Blue Essence....

As well as other methods of obtaining blue essence (and these alternative methods favor people in situations that don't apply to you; and they aren't being forced onto you anyways)

Here is another follow up to that post (as the post said there would be) specifically on this topic where it reinstates just that:

That you don't need chests or keys, or credit cards to get to mastery level 6 or 7.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/champion-mastery-levels-6-and-7-live-now

JariMay 30, 20161 votes

I think there's a part you missed in that post of yours, and it's a damn good reason why people are pissed over it.

We’re aiming to have it up within the next patch or two.

WHY in "next patch or two" instead of together? The answer is simple, because they want you to buy chests right now, or suffer behind as that guy that doesn't play Lulu as much as other champs gets his 6 and 7 easily with some wallet to the face.

And even WHEN they release it, it's still faster to just use money, and it's not horribly expensive to buy a chest key combo to make it possible. People are upset that the mastery system is gated behind an RNG factor. Look at the poster. He has 600k with Sion, and Riot says he isn't ready for mastery 6 and 7 because he can't S and might not even have the essence.

CoronaGulpMay 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think there's a part you missed in that post of yours, and it's a damn good reason why people are pissed over it.

WHY in "next patch or two" instead of together? The answer is simple, because they want you to buy chests right now, or suffer behind as that guy that doesn't play Lulu as much as other champs gets his 6 and 7 easily with some wallet to the face.

And even WHEN they release it, it's still faster to just use money, and it's not horribly expensive to buy a chest key combo to make it possible. People are upset that the mastery system is gated behind an RNG factor. Look at the poster. He has 600k with Sion, and Riot says he isn't ready for mastery 6 and 7 because he can't S and might not even have the essence.

I can see why your impatient perception gives you a biased point of view, resulting in your frustration.

Unfortunately for the 600k sion, participation isn't the ONLY thing that justifies the new Mastery levels, the S rate is included. Just because it HAS been in the past (1-5) doesn't mean it carries on or justifies the new titles that Riot has taken towards a performance direction (6 & 7).

Although everything in the PBE is constantly in motion and never definitive, these Champion Shards for IP are being tested to be released for 6.11, literally the next patch.

EVERYTHING that gets pushed into the Live servers, EVEN SKINS and BUNDLES and SALES! Go through the PBE for testing, before they are pushed to the Live Servers.

You ask "WHY in 'next patch or two' instead of together?" and then claim that "the answer is simple,"

The answer IS simple, but not what your biased perception has you to believe.

Your perception of Riot as "they want you to buy chests right now" stems from your need to have a complacent system, in order for it to feel justified to you. You even worded it as if you'd "suffer behind" if you don't pay. You're victimizing yourself, because you see it as a competition, as if other people getting the possibility of "starting now," instead of forcing you to wait, affects your own ability to achieve the mastery level.

And yet that's not even valid, since there isn't anything stopping you from obtaining IP and S ratings, all of which are the free and fundamental requirements to achieve these new mastery levels.

So what IS this simple answer as to why they released it in two parts? Because of Impatience! The very impatience that fuels your dissatisfaction with the fact that it has been released in two parts. (explained below)

The impatience from the players demanding its release, Mastery Levels 6 & 7, dictated the decision Riot made to release the system to the live servers ASAP with 6.10, half completed.

Riot had designed the entire system and hadn't calculated the IP values for the champion shards, nor had they tested it out on the PBE (this is happening as we speak.) However to release the Mastery 6 & 7, all they had to do was test out the badges, icons, S ratings, (all of which were done in the 6.10 PBE cycle), and then there had to be a way for players to unlock them with the blue essence!

From the many ways you can receive blue essence, all of which are free btw, there was only one way currently out on the live servers: The hextech way.

If you didn't know, hextech crafting was released in patch 6.5, and therefore there WAS a way to implement the designed new Masteries; The infrastructure was there, hence the masteries were released.

Keep in mind 6.10 was the largest patch to date with the mages, dragons, champion, items, and reworks. There was already a lot going on with 6.10 and yet Riot STILL managed to squeeze in the Mastery levels 6 & 7, which have been raging attention since the beginning of their announcements in January.

Notice how the impatience of players has everything to do with their own dissatisfaction?

In the meantime, you could be working on getting the S ratings for your champion, as intended by Riot, or use blue essence, a decision that has reason behind it, and explained in my post above.

If you're impatient and want to sacrifice your hextech loot to get your mastery 6 & 7 ASAP, even though this is the unfavorable and unrecommended route - unless ofc you apply to the situations mentioned in my post above - you have that course of option available to you.

Keep in mind it's this same impatience that ultimately manifested the creator of this thread to spend money on 16 hextech chests for something that's designed to be free.