You all get so emotional about Lee Sin, Zed, etc. First look at my match history. I never play either of them, OK?
Now I posted this on my Lee thread but will post it here again: Win Rate is EVERYTHING. Math says so.
Let's take an extreme example, OK?
This is not a Lee Sin thread. This is a "stop whining he's OP and enjoy your win" thread. I want this to be a general thread and for people to explain to me with logic or math how win rate in number of millions of games can not be the most important indicator of whether a champ is OP or not.
ummm im confused
"Win Rate is EVERYTHING" inyour starting statement
tooo
"...explain to me with logic or math how win rate in number of millions of games can not be the most important indicator..."
so you want statistics to deny that win rates make them op or not?
I will agree that win rate isn't a related post, as again skewed results, the best lee sins with a bad team hinders the lees skills.
I want to state, STATISTICALLY, lee sin has more power in lvl 2 presance than any other jungler (vi and jarvan debatable) then any other jungler, and that is a hinderance as when they choose to go in beyond the usual thought time (lane phase-HERE-mid game) and gets a kill or lose summoners in order not to die, you are put in such a bad place that some cannot come back.
You also don't have to put 2 and 2 together to say a zed can get out just by running away from his shadow, if he is chased, he can go back to his shadow and if not chased continues to run away. It statistically flawed in the Theme of ASSASSINS.
that is very true, but i do have to say that the player skill level between can skew some data, I fell for the Lee jungle op thought but couldn't get it down last season, and i cannot play him to save my life, i played less aggressive to his style and hindered my team because of it.
But there are lots of upcoming lee sin mains that try to do "the plays" and fail really bad. You really can't master lee sin in a few games, so lots of messing up is required to get good, so i would venture that for every 1 good lee sin there are 50 bad lee's.
not saying he is a monster, but he does not have any true weakness that counteract what he does offer as pros, he always has something to fall back on and can always cause a meaningless chase.
He can build a tank that does decent damage or a highly mobile dps assassin jungler.
And the lvl 2 ganks ARE ANNOYING, why would that ever be a good idea to give that power to a early game. Every champ has some blind spot, early mid or late that they fall off, but lee still is viable throughout.
Zed, i just think the ability to kill and safely get out is a problem, he just has to walk away from the ult shadow or w and then juke back. "OMG THE PLAYS", NO thats just annoying. This is why i hate leblanc still, you cannot chase her at all. The point of an assassin is to pop a target and have to pray they can get out cus they are all in champs. Talon is the best BALANCED version of an assassin i would say, once he is in he has to run, flash, or pray he gets out.
Mobility is my main problem with these champs, it is too strong to allow so much "RUNAWAY" power on top of a potential Powerhouse.
Win rate isn't everything. people will pick a champ that is seen as OP and fail miserably because they don't understand why that champion is considered OP. because lower ELO people make up a majority of the playerbase this will wash out any skilled players on the champ and make them look weaker than they are. a champion who is considered OP will then have a lower win rate because of the higher pick rate. conflating this issue they will also ban champs that are considered OP skewing their pick rate so the people who are good on those champs get fewer and fewer games with them.
you have to look at more than just winrate because winrate isn't math, it's a number that can inform how a champion performs in certain situations and must be interpreted along with many other factors.
example: tank junglers have a high winrate. a chain of causality may have caused this though. the mana-regen nerfs knocked many poke type mid-lane mages to top lane, they poke down tanks so the top-lane tanks are pushed out of lane completely and are no longer picked. teams with a tank in them win more so tanky jungers win more just because their team comp needed a tank. (example more for illustrative point of a butterfly like effect than asserting that these are all 100% true)
