People who complain about Lee Sin...

l Helios l·Oct 14, 2016·4 votes·523 views

Have probably forgotten about Lee Sin on release. Now that, was a terror to behold. Take notes guys, and thank Riot he's a shadow of his former self.

6 Comments

Busty DemonessOct 14, 20162 votes

I'm going to simply reference Release LeBlanc and Release Xin Zhao to remind you that this isn't uncommon for Riot.

Lee is still overbearing due to a somewhat overloaded kit (not to the same degree as Yasuo or Ekko, thank god.)

l Helios lOct 14, 20161 votes

Oh I recall perfectly well. I'm trying to be satirical in the sense that very few people can actually appreciate how far we've actually come in terms of balance for some champions.

I have my personal opinions on Lee balance, but pretty much every time I try to have discussions concerning it, no one feels like saying anything beyond the typical QQ thread argument. Confirmation bias is kind of a bitch like that.

Busty DemonessOct 14, 20162 votes

Personally, I feel his ultimate ratio is way too high given his ability to be safe without building mostly tank items. He ends up a tanky assassin even when building glass cannon, so to have a 200% ratio on his ultimate is pretty overbearing.

Especially since he has so much mobility and even execute damage on his second Q.

l Helios lOct 15, 20161 votes

My only problem with that is that insinuates that Lee deals a lot of damage, which is statistically untrue, at least for this patch. Lee Sin is ranked 40 in damage, being outclassed by Graves, Kindred, Rengar, Elise, Hecarim, and even outclassed by champions like Amumu, Zac, Sion, Maokai, Poppy, and Volibear. I find it unlikely this trend would've changed much over the course of time, since I can't recall too many damage buffs (Poppy being the exception that I can easily recall) to make those champions stronger than Lee in terms of damage.

Based on that information, if Lee is functioning as an assassin, then the damage he is dealing is incredibly single target focused (which is likely considering his Q R Q E + autos combo) and he's doing literally nothing to anyone else. Even then, data would indicate other champions as assassins (Pantheon, Rengar, Nocturne, Olaf etc) who would likely share similar build paths (Rengar being an exception as many build paths exist) are simply more efficient. But that's odd considering all three of these assassins are just as single target focused as Lee is; has one AOE spell in his E and I can't recall a time where I actually hit more than one person with the Man Drop, Rengar (Non-AP) has minimal damage at best on W, his only AOE spell, and Nocturne has a linear skill shot as his Q. Everything else for all 3 champions is single target focused. Lee has 1 AOE spell in Tempest and the damage from R'ing people into each other. Or even take someone like Olaf , who likely occupies the exact same role as Lee with slightly less mobility, deals much more damage than him while having only one spell as any form of multi-target damage, everything else is autos and a point and click E.

I should include respective ranks for context:

Junglers ranked based on damage:

Rumble is rank 1 with about 23000

Aurelion Sol is rank 2 with about 22000

Rengar is rank 19 with about 18500

Nocturne is 20 with about 18000

Olaf is rank 22 with about 18000

Pantheon is rank 25 with about 17900

Zac is rank 31 with about 16600

Amumu is rank 32 with about 16500

Lee Sin is rank 40 with about 15700

Udyr is rank 47 with about 13000

Ivern is rank 50 with about 11000

Clearly, Lee deals substantially less damage than many of his competitors, so it perplexes me that one of the main complains about Lee is his damage considering that several champions who have similar build paths deal more damage and all those listed (with the exception of Pantheon) have a higher win rate in the jungle. By that logic, if Lee's damage is the biggest aspect of his existence, then he's grossly underperforming. I'm not saying that's true, but that is the progression of thought I followed.

Busty DemonessOct 15, 20161 votes

Meanwhile, Lee builds 2 damage items (Hydra and Cleaver) and is now a glorified assassin who can take out specific squishy targets once he lands his first Q.

I wouldn't say in any way that he's underperforming, despite his lack of damage. That's because his utility more than makes up for it. His competitors might do more damage, Lee still does it more safely than any of them and typically with less damage items.