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Essence Reaver Will Continue To Not Be Bought

GuiltyGecko·7/17/2014, 9:43:34 PM·8 votes·2,262 views

Hey Everyone,

To get straight to the point, I am concerned that Riot is pushing Essence Reaver item 3508 in the wrong direction. There are several problems with it that aren't addressing the issues for the intended champions it's supposed to be bought on. First, lets look at the champions it's supposed/could be bought on: Ezreal Corki Jayce Lucian Yorick Urgot Sivir Those are the main champions, that item 3508 can be bought on, but there are other potential candidates like Gangplank Khazix KogMaw. While the list isn't exhaustive by any means, and a few champs could be debatable, it's a rough pool of champions that may want to buy the item based on player preference and the situation.

So what are the issues with Essence Reaver? I'll go with the most obvious one that has been discussed before.

  1. It has a terrible build path.

In the 4.12 Patch Notes, it was stated:

Essence Reaver just wasn't giving enough of a power spike for anyone building it

The power curve of this weapon is still poor. Looking at the champions that want item 3508 , when do they want mana? In the laning phase. When do they get it? If they farm REALLY well, they can have it around 11min mark, but I suspect it will be averaging 13-15 minutes. That's when mid game will start. Giving the item more AD doesn't fix the issue. No one was buying item 3508 for the AD. They were buying it for the mana. Remember your new design values Riot? Where you said you want to buff strengths and nerf weaknesses? Like others said, if item 3508, had item 3114 in it's build path, and then item 3508 had like 10 MP5 upon completion it would do wonders to smooth out the build path. Essence Reaver's Strength is supposed to be that it gives mana, but the passive is too little too late. Which brings me to my next point. 2. The passive sucks for the intended users. In order to get what you want out of item 3508 , you have to auto attack. The champions that want to build this item; however, all want to spam abilities. This leaves less time to auto attack, and less time to give mana. You have to decide if you want to keep spamming and go OOM, or auto attack to keep your pool up. You shouldn't have to fight against your items.

In addition, as I stated before, this item will be completed at the beginning of mid game, which is the roaming phase. You won't be able to use the passive while you are roaming, meaning if you are OOM after you leave lane to roam, you'll be OOM when you get to your destination. If The item had forbidden idolitem 3114 , then the passive mana regen would help during the roaming phase. 3. The next problem is, what spot is this item competing for? In general, ADC's have a build layout that looks like: -Boots -Life Steal Item -Attack Speed Item -Armor Pen Item -IE -Defensive Item

Now, sure, item 3508 COULD fit in the lifesteal slot, but it's competing against BoTrk, and BT. You aren't going to give up those items for the currently lackluster passive that Essence Reaver currently has. I am no saying that the item's lifesteal should be buffed. That would just make it more generic. Going back to the original point, the mana aspect of the item should be buffed so it can be a more competitive pick.

Anyway, those are all the ideas I could initially think of. I really like the concept of the item, but I just feel it's not executed very well.

24 Comments

Cheesesky7/18/2014, 10:49:08 AM3 votes

The passive sucks for the intended users. In order to get what you want out of item 3508 , you have to auto attack. The champions that want to build this item; however, all want to spam abilities. This leaves less time to auto attack, and less time to give mana. You have to decide if you want to keep spamming and go OOM, or auto attack to keep your pool up. You shouldn't have to fight against your items.

This item isn't supposed to make you never go oom. It's a decision you have to make, if you think you don't have mana, auto attack more and then unleash your combo. i think the item is great the way it is now, it is on par with all the other ADC items, and it suits a certain situation, making the ADC role more diverse, which was riot's objective

MrWaffler7/18/2014, 1:01:09 AM2 votes

I disagree with the Forbidden Idol being in it's build path. It looks good on paper but in game if you have the option to buy the Idol, I would rather pick up a Doran's Blade and some boots and just wait a few seconds extra than pick up the idol.

I made a discussion about a potential build path involving a new item that is similar to Bilgewater Cutlass for the Bork. It gives you the taste of the the full Reaver will bring. You can find it around here somewhere.

Fisk7/18/2014, 1:15:38 AM1 votes

Needs a mid game item build path badly. My thoughts were vamp scepter+ Forbidden idol. What do you guys think? Would allow them to up the cost even more (since it has a good item you can hold onto for a while) and possibly raise the lifesteal so you can choose basically between a free barrier and high AD (BT), mana regen+CDR and relatively high AD (ER) or MS and percent dps but less ad (BORK). Its really only spot is in that lifesteal spot so.... I don't know these are just my thoughts

Sire Hippington7/18/2014, 1:25:08 AM1 votes

While I'D definitly like to see an buildpath using forbidden idol or an mini-reaver for early mana, it now can compete with BT on some champs, like EZ, Lucian, Kog, Varus or Pant, as it gives the same damage as BT and infinite mana+10% cdr is pretty awsome for casters, if u go more for longranged poke or hit and run it's bette than the 10% more lifesteal from BT

The5lacker7/18/2014, 3:16:10 AM1 votes

The basic problem with the item right now is that if they keep pushing it in the direction it's going, it's going to replace BT. There won't be any choice, it'll simply be a better BT. It'd be like having the choice between a Morellonomicon and a Morellonomicon without mana regen and no passive. The shield in BT isn't worth nearly as much as the mana provided by Essence Reaver unless the champion happens to be manaless. In which case they're probably melee and Ravenous Hydra is already going to be a strictly better choice anyways.

PedestrianA7/18/2014, 3:58:31 AM1 votes

Btw, in this game Mana has been an almost irrelevant stat post 15 minute for a very long time. And ER is simply not going to be used by any mean, not for the mana to say the least. The item really needs the cost efficiency of the old grail, if not higher considering that mage are more mana hungry, to be relevant at all in competitive games. The power spike is simply not there even after the buff.

SnowFall7/18/2014, 8:33:45 AM1 votes

Just make it into a gold item with same sell rate as normal items and it will be fine. You still sell this item later because there are ALOT of items that are just better in lategame

MrBuffington7/17/2014, 10:40:55 PM1 votes

I agree with you, I wish this item could be bought more often. The only champions I've tried it on are Ezreal and Sivir, and, like you said, I really wish I had the mana regen in lane. I also think the mana regen is a bit too much; as Sivir, by the time I got the item, I never even got close to going oom. I think if they took out some of the mana regained on auto in favor of some MP5, it'd be a much more enjoyable item to build and use.

I was wondering what the build path would be though; would you just add in the forbidden idol for a lower combined cost? I still wonder if any ADCs would buy the item, since most go for, if they can, a BF sword for their first buy. Forbidden idol doesn't offer any damage for an ADC, so I don't really know if anyone would back at 700g to get one, or if they wouldn't just wait another 100 gold for vamp scepter or get another dblade+boots or something instead.

The Red Warden7/17/2014, 11:21:53 PM1 votes

The problem is that it is now a late game item, but late game you really don't have mana troubles. So it becomes a redundant item that by the time you get it, it has already lost its purpose

Garion7/21/2014, 4:22:57 AM1 votes

i think you are mistaken into believing this item was meant for ADCs; the stat it gives are geared towards AD casters, and by looking at it this way, arguments 2 and 3 becomes almost irrelevant, and argument 1 becomes significantly weaker

however, if youre trying to claim that "ER will continue to not be bought by ADCs", then i see how it can be argued; but even then, i do not see any major problems for ER to function as a niche mana alternative to other BT counterparts

Earl Eulrich7/18/2014, 10:53:28 AM1 votes

yea, the buildpath really sucks atm...they should have made it:

item 1037 +item 3114 = old ER (+some passive manareg/-lifesteal) old ER + item 1053 = current ER (+some passive manareg)

this would leave it as a strong item for laning, though a tad bit more risky...as you trade the early powerspike for (life-)sustain - and still would leave it a good lategame option with the additional upgrade.

Sunfield7/18/2014, 2:20:16 PM1 votes

ER is basically a BT that exchanges life steal for cool down reduction. It's meant to be for casters. Right now it would be a pretty sweet item for Lucian if it wasnt for the Botrk.

Maybe Ezreal could use it well, since he doesnt synergize with BT nor Botrk well. But I cant really think of other adcs like him

Kraken Skulls7/18/2014, 2:48:37 PM1 votes

Just grab a tear or sheen, then build ER. ER is obviously not designed for lvl 1-5 mana sustain. Tear is and they synergize like cookies and cream.

Old Man Teeto7/18/2014, 3:19:42 PM1 votes

When I saw the price hike and the BF sword instead of Pickaxe I groaned. It was a situational at best item previously, now it was just an overly expensive laning tool.

It needs to give mana or mana regeneration in the build path so we can get an impact out of the extra mana in the early game.

Anbaric7/18/2014, 4:22:14 AM

I don't know about my Sivir building it, I always max E second and always have plenty mana. But whenever I play Ezreal, I am constantly running out. I just poke so much in-between autos that I always bought a tear and turned it unto a Muramana asic, with a Vamp Scepter for some sustain. ALso, I have never had a laning phase that ended before 20 minutes. I just focus on farming until a Jungler gank or similar opportunity arises to take their tower. Or if they hard push and take ours, I stay in that lane until we match that. Then we go sieging as a group.

Tear is the only thing I can buy to help with my horrendous mana issues currently, and even then, before it's at ~450 stacks, I'm subbing mana pots for health pots. (I get plenty of health from my Vamp Scepter and LS Quints) I'm also leaving in the middle of teamfights because I suddenly became useless without mana, and because I do my absolute best to poke them down some before the fight starts. Even adding the TF or IG at somepoint doesn't help. I am loving this chance to restore a percentage of my mana at any time in the game. And once an Ez has it, his Q's are free and He can dish out tonnes of damage