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Meddler Response: How to Help Support Lulu

GuiltyGecko·8/31/2015, 6:16:20 PM·17 votes·2,604 views

{quoted} We're not trying to remove Lulu from solo lanes, we do think she can be too strong there though, particularly in organized play. Additionally, despite that strength, support's still a position a lot of player's do choose to play Lulu in. We feel Lulu's overall both fun and healthy as a support, so would like to try and put her in a slightly better spot power wise there as a result.

Imma try to keep this easy to read. I’m replying to this quote by Meddler on how to help support Lulu without killing off solo lane Lulu. A little about me: I’ve been playing Lulu since her release in S2 and have mained her in the support role ever since. I’m currently in Platinum with her, and feel I have a good handle on her current state in the game.

I'll try to put the TL;DR in bold...

Question: What’s wrong with Solo lane Lulu?

  • Solo lane Lulu is safe. Because of Lulu’s poke pattern, she can harass on opposing laner out of their influence range. This is doubly true if her opponent is a melee champion. She can free push waves with ease, and harass under tower. Lulu's counters are weak and/or out of meta right now. Champs that can harass her out of her range (Xerath, Syndra, Brand etc.) are unsafe picks. In pro play Azir is frequently banned Unlike her counters, Lulu has a speed boost and slow that makes ganking her difficult, and if you do catch her, she has her ult and shield . Lulu is crowding out other picks because of not only her safety, but her anti-assassin nature.
  • Solo Lane Lulu doesn’t have mana problems. Solo lane Lulus often rush chalice or morellos (Top Lulu has even started getting catalyst. They also start with Doran rings. They are quickly able to buy their way out of the mana restrictions that make E/Q combos on support Lulu go OOM. Support Lulu has to get sightstone and sometimes boots before they can invest heavily into mana items. Combine this with lower income than mid laners and you can quickly see why this can be an issue for Support Lulu.
  • ** AP ratios on Utility help Solo Lane Lulu more than support.** Solo lane Lulu buys more AP than support Lulu, and therefore, will have more effective utility on those abilities.
  • Too much Sustain in bot lane is invalidating poke(Lulu) supports. Classically, Sustain>poke>all-in>sustain. Poke is beaten by sustain, and in bot lane there’s A LOT of sustain now. Tank supports(all-in) take 4 pots and get relic stacks. ADC’s have dorans and benefit from relic stacks. It takes A LOT of mana to burn through that sustain. Unless you’re able to constantly focus the ADC, you will often go OOM since it is usually pointless to try and poke out the 4 pot, relic shield, 0/16/14, 12+ MR rune page starting tank support. With Lulu especially, her poke is a skill shot which means you won’t always land it and that’s just a waste of mana. You could E/Q combo, but then you’re using even more mana and even then it’s no guaranteed to hit it.

Here are a few things that could be done for Lulu Support:

  • Have her ult proc Ardent Censeritem 3504 : Yes. I know what you’re saying, “But Lulu’s ult isn’t a heal!”. True, in the most literal sense it’s not a heal, but FUNCTIONALLY it is. This would allow her to give ardent to more than 1 target. Solo lane Lulu doesn’t buy ardent, so this would just be a straight buff to support Lulu.
  • Let Pix proc spellthief's item 3303 : Right now, Lulu can only get 1 proc of spellthief per auto. This change would make Lulu similar to Bard. Bard can proc spellthief with a meep and an auto allowing for two stacks to get off. Sona can also get 2 procs off with Q + Auto. We don’t have to let pix proc all of spelltheif's stacks, but just +1 is good enough. Then Lulu can harass with her auto attacks better. This change wouldn’t buff solo lane lulu since they don’t buy this item.
  • Play with AP Ratios/Base Damages: There are several things that could be done here. You could move some of her damage from Q into E so her wave clear isn’t as strong. You could increase base damages/utilities while lowering AP ratios. Basically you would have to make it so AP doesn’t scale as well as it does now, while compensation with base values for the early game.** If it’s true Lulu is supposed to be about utility, then it’s quite possible that her utility needs to be buffed a bit to highlight her unique abilities (Which I would label as her polymorph and ult).**

I want solo lane lulu and support Lulu to be able to exist, but what I don't want is for Riot to nerf solo lane lulu to the point where she can't solo lane OR support.

31 Comments

PokladnicaZla9/1/2015, 7:38:34 AM5 votes

How would you guys feel if her E chnaged to a blind/vision reduction/reveal instead of a damage/reveal? Now that she got some of her damage removed it could be shifted into her Q or W.Is this a good idea?

BTW Pix procing item 3303 is a great idea. :D

Ghiefelstein9/1/2015, 10:27:47 AM2 votes

How about giving Lulu incentives to have a duo partner or be around other people? No matter what lane she is in, she should be about helping her team. Reduce Lulu's power when she is alone and using her abilities in a selfish way, and give her extra power for showing teamwork. I am sure Riot can find a way to nerf solo lane Lulu, so here are some ideas to compensate support Lulu if necessary:

Example incentives to be around teammates:

  • If Lulu uses W on an ally, she gains a small speed bonus for herself as well.
  • If Lulu uses E on an ally, Pix fires on auto attacks of both Lulu and her teammate.

Some other ideas that are probably crazy but I might as well throw them out here:

  • You can now cast E on wards.
  • Pix disappears for [some duration] upon last hitting a minion.
  • Q slow refreshes upon hitting any enemy.
  • Increase allied E cast range.
  • Casting W on an ally gives them Pix.
jjookkeerr8/31/2015, 8:56:32 PM1 votes

solo lane lulu buys more ap than sup lulu because supports are braindead and build tank instead of ap

Nekusen9/1/2015, 2:28:17 AM1 votes

agree about 1 and 2 i think 3 is exactly what allows lulu to support, having low AP scaling means she doesn't rely on AP items and can build tanky, ad and utility.

Athenes Lulu9/1/2015, 5:03:35 PM1 votes
  • Remove utility scaling completely. Why the hell is this even here, it's only a gift to Lulu solo lanes, and almost no benefit to support Lulus.
  • Pix doesn't need scalings either.
  • Shift more base damage and lower AP ratios, especially on ult. And again, support Lulu doesn't need that.
  • If ult ratios/damages are NOT changed, make her ult an actual heal instead. This will be affected by grevious wounds so there's still something to ease the ult "heals". On the brighter side, Ardent Censer passive will proc as well.
  • Buff E ally cast and nerf E enemy cast. Most likely on the base damages (and more base shields), so Lulus are encouraged to use it defensively more.
  • Like what the OP said, if Bard can proc more than once with his passive, why not with Lulu's passive? Why does Morgy get to proc all 3 spellthief passives with ONE pool while my passive doesn't?
  • Since we all know AP supports are still outclassed (RIP Sona and Zyra), might as well buff spellthief's. Or even frostfang so it's worth buying even if you're not going for Frost Queen's. More AP on stuff like Ardent Censer, Twin Shadows, or even new things designed for AP poke supports would help too (probably a mini +10 AP buff is good enough). Not Zeke's though ,that alone is already overloaded enough.

Let's just get real here, support Lulus only have up to 150 AP lategame. That's why increasing ratios aren't relevant on support Lulu, and we all know that applies to every support.

Think I got everything covered. I'm already sick and tired of having everyone think I'm always going mid even if I picked exhaust instead of ignite, after maining Lulu ever since I got to level 30 a few years ago.

EDIT: I LIKE THIS PIC I'M SAVING IT

Jbels8/31/2015, 6:20:59 PM1 votes

Well if they do to her what they do to Morde, They'll sugarcoat her laning phase, claiming it' still doable, and then the sad reality will set in that you just can't solo lane Lulu anymore because they'll make her dependant on having a duo partner. At least, that's what happened with morde

GuiltyGecko9/3/2015, 7:37:11 PM1 votes

So I guess we got what we asked for? Thanks then! @Meddler @Riot

DanofDemacia8/31/2015, 8:15:28 PM1 votes

where did meddler say this? link pls