Boards›Live Gameplay Balance

Riot, what's your justification for the Hunter's Machete changes currently on PBE?

mi ramfan·6/30/2014, 3:39:59 AM·2 votes·4,224 views

I'm really not happy about them for a number of reasons.

First of all, the changes completely fail to address the problem. The problem wasn't that junglers were too sustained, it was that the fast clearing junglers were too sustained and the slow clearing junglers were not sustained nearly enough. all just get the living crap kicked out of them on their first clears, which really hurts their viability in any kind of competitive game modes. Just picking them is asking to be invaded and ganked at your second buff for a free kill.

Second of all, the changes on PBE just make the listed junglers even WORSE. What is Sejuani or Nautilus going to do with +10 attack damage against minions? They don't benefit nearly as much from it as do, and those junglers are perfectly fine right now.

These changes make the strong junglers even stronger while making the weak junglers even weaker. Honestly, I'm not sure it's even going to be possible to clear with jungle Nautilus anymore after this patch. I was already coming within 100 HP of dying at Red my first clear-I guess I'll just play Naut support and never touch Sejuani at all under any circumstance.

Riot, please explain your rationale for these changes.

16 Comments

RiotPhreak6/30/2014, 11:22:13 PM6 votes

Keep in mind the old Machete style regen benefited champions like Lee Sin, Vi, and Nocturne: Ones with really high attack speed. By being damage reduction instead, the "regen" given to fast clearers is much lower than the regen given to slower clearers, since it will block more damage overall.

Critkeeper6/30/2014, 1:20:32 PM5 votes

5 damage block is worth 5 hp for each time you are struck. That means unless you can exceed the combined attacks per second from each monster in the camp with your own attack speed, 5 damage block is worth more health per second than 5 health on hit.

Depending on whether or not the damage block is applied before or after armor would determine how much MORE valuable it is than 5 health on hit, but it will be worth more.

Except against wight.

But wraiths for example, you block 5 damage from EACH OF THEM every time they hit you, so that really adds up faster than you restoring 5 health every time YOU ATTACK one of them.

Understand?

Lord Graves III6/30/2014, 10:10:30 AM3 votes

I think they hope that it gives tank junglers just enough viability to survive the early game, while still letting early game be a weakness for them.

Cause if tank junglers weren't vulnerable early game then other junglers would be sorta pointless.

In fact that is what has happened when tank junglers dominated the meta.

Papy Mougeot6/30/2014, 11:48:26 AM3 votes

I dunno what you are talking about. I just played naut jungle and i'm high hp the whole time. Maybe nobody help you at your first buff but it's an other story.

Serpents Embrace6/30/2014, 7:15:17 PM2 votes

I disagree. The changes as a whole really well help tank kinglets, even without giving a stronger early game presence to kinglets that don't have one. Sejuani I'm especially excited to play them because the additional bonus health will work great with their abilities and other common itemization. Even if it benefits the meta junglers that's fine, because the change isn't really meant to disrupt them.

KingSmizzy7/3/2014, 3:09:28 PM1 votes

My main issue with the new item 3207 is that it requires you to have another item before its main passive starts doing anything. If you just have this item it actually has less Hp than before, you need randuins or warmogs rushed after to even have bonus Hp. This means junglers who build an offense item inbetween wont actually have hp till like 25-30 minutes in.

Arkon Tri7/1/2014, 2:06:25 AM1 votes

Why does anyone jungle with anyone other than...... Amumu

"We can be friends forever" - Amumu :)

CrimsonBlader247/1/2014, 1:49:09 PM1 votes

Keep in mind though that by raising the price of Hunter's Machete to 325, the slow clearing junglers will not be able to buy a fifth health pot.

It also seems silly to price it at 325, because now when buy a Machete and 4 pots, there will be 10 gold leftover.

SlashStriker7/1/2014, 2:45:16 PM1 votes

the new machete man... would be pretty op IMO

before was 5 health per hit and now is -5 dmg from monsters. If 4 monsters are attacking you, you would take -20 less damage total.

I wanna try this so bad :3

however i think all jungle items, including wriggles, should give some mana because junglers like yi, warwick, udyr and so on use mana to cast spells

Cerbearus6/30/2014, 4:10:21 AM1 votes

Naut? Close to dying? What? Are you running on a level 1 account with no runes or masteries?

By the way, the 5 damage reduction against monsters will be perfect for those junglers who do struggle in clearing. Plus the new item Quill Coat gives armor (helps you survive invades).