@Morello: What would you think of a CC effect that disables movement abilities?

mi ramfan··63 votes·5,128 views

So this thought came to me earlier today in the middle of an exam and it kind of screwed over my score.

There's been a lot of talk about mobility creep lately with the coming release of Kallista, arguably the most mobile AD carry in League of Legends history. At the same time, we've experienced the recent release of Azir, whose ultimate prevents enemy movement from passing through it.

What if we added a mechanic on thematically fitting champions that would prevent enemies from using any spell that causes them to move, Flash exempted?

What this would do would provide some counterplay for less mobile champions to more mobile champions by allowing them to restrict the mobile champion to their normal movement rate. This would allow the team with less mobility to either prevent enemy engagements at inopportune times or make it easier for them to catch out a group of enemy mobile champions.

#Mechanics

This CC would require some interactions to be programmed in order for appropriate counterplay to be maintained.

  • Flash, Teleport, and Recall are NOT considered to be movement spells for the purposes of this CC. You may Flash while unable to use your Champion's gapclosers, and if this CC is applied to you by a non-damaging ability while you are recalling, you would be allowed to finish the Recall so long as you did not take damage.
  • "Unstoppable" spells are NOT affected by this CC. For example, Malphite's ultimate, Jarvan's ultimate, and Vi's ultimate would all still be castable during this CC.
  • If this CC is cast on someone while they are mid-gapcloser, their gapcloser will be allowed to finish as normal. For example, you couldn't cancel a Leona E with this CC once she was already in motion.
  • This CC is cleansed by Mercurial Scimtar, Mikhael's Crucible, and Cleanse like a non-displacement CC, and is reduced by Mercury's Treads.
  • This CC does not affect displacement spells cast by unaffected champions. For example, somebody who has this CC applied could still click Thresh's Lantern, be pulled in by Kalista's ultimate (but be unable to dash until the duration of the CC ends), and be knocked back by an Alistar headbutt or pulled by Blitzcrank.

Let's see what this effect would have when added to a few particularly-fitting champions:

Ashe (Frost Shot)

This addition requires a small change to Frost Shot's mechanics in order to retain counterplay:

Frost Shot Toggled On: Autoattacks slow enemies by X% for Y seconds. Additionally, the champion Ashe has most recently attacked with Frost Shot active cannot use movement abilities. (Does NOT proc on Volley)

With this change, Ashe would gain a massive buff to her kiting ability in the mobility metagame. Currently, Ashe can kite immobile champions like Udyr but has no way to deal with champions like Zed, Jarvan, and Vi by herself. With this change, Ashe would become able to prevent one assassin or bruiser who is within her range from jumping onto her, but she would still be unable to protect herself from multiple attackers or attackers who get the jump on her.

Singed (Mega Adhesive)

By preventing enemy champions from dashing out of Mega Adhesive, Singed would gain a much needed buff that would help him survive in top lane against the likes of Renekton and Lee Sin. Placing Mega Adhesive on top of the enemy laner would give Singed time to poison minions and potentially escape before his opponent leaves the spell's area of effect. Additionally, this change would buff Singed's late game as well by making him easier to engage with in the late game. Counterplay to this kind of engage still exists because of Mega Adhesive's poor cast range and the potential to escape the area of effect before Singed reaches an enemy for a fling.

Talon (Cutthroat)

Talon was toxic as hell with a full silence because it was impossible to trade with him or escape from his burst. However, having only a massive, miniscule duration slow on his E left much to be desired. Giving him the ability to prevent gapclosers on his E instead of the slow would make him more effective at his role while still allowing enemies to fight back when he jumps onto them.

Sejuani (Permafrost)

While Sejuani packs amazing teamfight initiation and ganking, her damage potential leaves much to be desired. Her main source of damage comes from her W, which requires her to stick to targets for an extended duration to deal its maximum damage. With so many enemy gapclosers and her Q's long cooldown, Sejuani must choose between using Q to get in range, or using Q to stay in range, neither of which bodes well for her in a meta where almost no other jungler has to make that choice. If the Permafrost active prevented the enemy from using gapclosers for as long as the increased slow lasted, she would have a much easier time getting her W damage off.

Udyr (Bear Stance)

Bear Stance Activation: Udyr gains X% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds. While Active: Udyr's autoattacks stun enemies for 1 second and prevent them from using mobility spells for 2 seconds afterwards. This effect cannot occur more than once every Y seconds.

Udyr's problems have grown as the game has grown more mobility-based, because while his damage in melee range is extremely high, his ability to actually reach melee range is limited at best and he has no way to stay in melee range while DPSing. This ability would increase Udyr's ability to deal his damage after catching an enemy while not actually making it any easier for him to catch enemies.

#Counterplay

Obviously, with any CC effect that limits movement, counterplay is a concern. This type of CC would have more counterplay than most because unlike a full silence, the affected target is free to fight back, and unlike a full snare, running away is still an option. Instead, this type of CC allows the target to choose to use Flash/Cleanse, run away without the ability to use gapclosers, or fight.

For gameplay reasons, some spells would have to be nerfed in order to compensate for the addition of this mechanic. However, I feel that the benefits of adding this mechanic outweigh the risks that come with adding it to the game.


If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I know this idea sounds a little weird, but I'm confident that it could be really effective at curbing mobility creep if implemented well.

What champions would you like to see this effect on?

119 Comments

Kaleidos16 votes

Why bother making an entirely new CC? Just make Slows reduce the range of dashes and blinks by the same percentage.

A Slime Appears3 votes

I'm sure one of your upvotes is from boots of swiftness.

Tarreb10 votes

For the most part, I like this concept. As a suggestion for the name of the debuff, how about hobbled?(other people are using 'cripple', so I'll stick with that for now) It seems to be an interesting way to open up meta a bit and still allow for high mobility champs. However, I do see some potential problems:

  1. This debuff targets a specific group of champions, and has no impact on others, making this potentially difficult to balance around. If this effect is too prevalent and too powerful, this could render mobility champions unplayable.

  2. Many mobility champions also gain a buff or do damage as part of their dashes (i.e. Katarina's Shunpo). This disable would reduce combat capability of these champions.

  3. Is this actually necessary? Stuns, silence, suppression, and roots already accomplish this task (and with a little more oomph too).


Anyways, onto champions mentioned:

SingedTalonSejuani I like this idea for these champions. It gives them a good way to initiate or zone, without being too OP (in my opinion).

Ashe I don't think having this status effect on her frost shot would be very healthy for gameplay. It would either be totally abusive with her able to keep it permanently applied it would either need to have a lockout window where it can't be applied to the same champion for some short duration. The first case would just not be fun to play against, and the second would require a lot of skill and un-fun decision making to use effectively.

Udyr I don't really think Udyr needs this. His movement speed is his Achilles heel. He has the ability to cruise around the map and his short cd stun gives him a lot of utility. Giving him this ability on top of his stun would remove a significant amount of counterplay against Udyr.

JarvanIV (someone else mentioned him) I don't think J4's ult needs this. Being able to escape his ult gives rise to strategic gameplay for both teams.

Other champions I think this might be interesting on:

Diana Adding this effect to her vacuum ability (and maybe increasing its range) could open her kit for other changes, and allow for some interesting tactics.

Elise This might be interesting to add to her rappel, if she rappels onto an enemy champion.

Evelynn Maybe on her ult? This is more of a food for thought suggestion, I don't really think she needs it.

Karthus Putting this on his Wall of Pain could be interesting.

Nasus Put this on Wither, and increase the cooldown to compensate.

Quinn Vault (as Quinn only)

manbearswine1 votes

I think it's best to place it on champions who need it,instead of things which it sorta fits thematically,so I would focus on off meta immobile squishies.

viktor gravity thingo would be good,possibly an added debuff to brands e/etc.(generally placed on reliable parts of those champions,and definetly not on something with as much mobility as elise,this is supposed to shake the mobility meta,not help elise establish dominance)

Tarreb2 votes

I do think some degree of thematic flair is necessary between debuffs and their associated abilities. The presence of a coherent theme leads to clarity and understanding of a champions capabilities. Brand is a champion I feel has a pretty clear and consistent theme: his abilties cause an additional source of damage by setting the target ablaze, and if the target is already ablaze, they get a bonus effect. This steers his gameplay into trying to land combos onto his target to achieve the greatest effect. When playing against him, this theme indicates the method of counterplay: keep aware of his skillshots. That being said, I don't really know where on Brand's curret kit this debuff would fit in. Q: Already has a stun W: This is the ability that would benefit most from a target suffering the debuff E: I guess it could maybe fit here. It would have to be a really short duration (probably just long enough for his W to cast) R: It would really suck to have to cast (and lose) his ult to apply this debuff

As for Viktor's gravity trap, I think it would be inappropriate to apply this debuff with it. Strategic placement of his trap leads to a lot of interesting game play and counterplay. Simply allowing him to dump it on someone and prevent their escape from it isn't all that fun. The ability is meant to zone and anticipate the actions of an enemy, and should only be a guaranteed stun if paired with good strategy.

Onto Elise. Elise is kind of in a weird (read: bad) spot at the moment, and this change would likely do very little to change that. Beyond that, I don't actually see a problem with a high mobility champion like Elise having the capability to apply this kind of debuff. Putting an anti-mobility ability on a mobile champion would still help to "shake up the mobility meta." Personally, I think it would be kind of interesting to see Elise have a greater focus on hunting down some of the more elusive champions, and I think it would fit her style. She's a spider (at least part of the time), and spiders trap and hunt relatively nimble insects.

Finally, we must remember the goal here isn't to nerf mobility (and the champions who rely on it) into non-existence, the goal is to create interesting and meaningful gameplay. Additionally, we don't need a Rock Paper Scissors style of power balance where immobile beats anti-mobility beats mobility beats immobile. This leads to purely reactive and limiting choices, which results in an even more limited meta and less fun. The debuff being proposed is meant to open up more options against mobility and expand the meta.

manbearswine4 votes

I do think some degree of thematic flair is necessary between debuffs and their associated abilities. The presence of a coherent theme leads to clarity and understanding of a champions capabilities.

Look,let's take brand for example(who it obviously does not fit thematically on) he get's facerolled by the current assassin meta in mid,he isn't balanced around the ability to ez dodge his abilities with mobility,he needs something like this desperately and I think that is more important than thematics.

Q: Already has a stun W: This is the ability that would benefit most from a target suffering the debuff E: I guess it could maybe fit here. It would have to be a really short duration (probably just long enough for his W to cast) R: It would really suck to have to cast (and lose) his ult to apply this debuff

I have suggested it on his e,and yes something like 0.75-1 second to force them to dodge his w/q like everyone else would.

As for Viktor's gravity trap, I think it would be inappropriate to apply this debuff with it. Strategic placement of his trap leads to a lot of interesting game play and counterplay. Simply allowing him to dump it on someone and prevent their escape from it isn't all that fun. The ability is meant to zone and anticipate the actions of an enemy, and should only be a guaranteed stun if paired with good strategy.

so now mobile champions,like everyone else,would have to care about positioning,where's exactly the problem? the thing you should always remember about this ability is that is simply puts hyper mobile nonsense in the shoes of other champions,for example as far as lux/brand themselves are concerned,this debuff has absolutely no effect on them whatsoever(that is,when they are debuffed by it).

Onto Elise. Elise is kind of in a weird (read: bad) spot at the moment,

Tell that to sejuani,if you think elise is in a bad spot you don't even know what bad is,the only thing she is not is khazix/lee tier,and there are only two champions in that tier.

and this change would likely do very little to change that. Beyond that, I don't actually see a problem with a high mobility champion like Elise having the capability to apply this kind of debuff.

how about the fact the very idea of it is to stop their domination?

Putting an anti-mobility ability on a mobile champion would still help to "shake up the mobility meta." Personally, I think it would be kind of interesting to see Elise have a greater focus on hunting down some of the more elusive champions, and I think it would fit her style. She's a spider (at least part of the time), and spiders trap and hunt relatively nimble insects.

Once again,gameplay>thematics this debuff does not belong on mobile things,the very idea of it was to give immobile champions a chance against them,not help them establish dominance,elise is far from bad right now,and is above the vast majority of champions in viability,buffing her,especially like this,is senseless.

Finally, we must remember the goal here isn't to nerf mobility (and the champions who rely on it) into non-existence, the goal is to create interesting and meaningful gameplay.

what you need to remember,that the sort of champions I mentioned,are as it currently stands nerfed into non-existence,they need something big to fight their hyper mobile counterparts,but I doubt it would nerf mobility champions into non-existence.

Additionally, we don't need a Rock Paper Scissors style of power balance where immobile beats anti-mobility beats mobility beats immobile.

the idea is to give immobile champions tools to fight back,not auto win(the way mobility currently does to lack of it)

This leads to purely reactive and limiting choices, which results in an even more limited meta and less fun. The debuff being proposed is meant to open up more options against mobility and expand the meta.

I hate to disappoint you,but it doesn't get any more limited than the current meta.

Tarreb1 votes

As for Viktor's gravity trap, I think it would be inappropriate to apply this debuff with it. Strategic placement of his trap leads to a lot of interesting game play and counterplay. Simply allowing him to dump it on someone and prevent their escape from it isn't all that fun. The ability is meant to zone and anticipate the actions of an enemy, and should only be a guaranteed stun if paired with good strategy.

so now mobile champions,like everyone else,would have to care about positioning,where's exactly the problem?

The point I was trying to make here is that Viktor's gravity trap as it currently exists does have an impact on hyper mobile champions. If Viktor simply drops it at an enemies feet with their dash available, they're probably not going to get stunned. But used tactically, it is still incredibly effective. If an enemy is forced to dash, it leaves them open for follow up attacks by Viktor or his teammates. If Viktor waits to place it after the enemy has dashed, it's gonna be harder to be avoided. But the trap doesn't have to be simply laid at the enemies feet. It can be placed around them to force them in another direction, prevent them from chasing or retreating, or give them the Sofie's Choice between eating the stun or something else. The trap is still effective against mobile champions, depending on how it is used.

Onto Elise. Elise is kind of in a weird (read: bad) spot at the moment,

Tell that to sejuani,if you think elise is in a bad spot you don't even know what bad is

Elise has a high win rate--but only in the Master and Challenger tiers. In any lower tier, her win rate is significantly decreased. This indicates to me that her kit is unhealthy. This, to me, is bad. But it is bad in a different way that Sejuani's situation is bad.

Personally, I think it would be kind of interesting to see Elise have a greater focus on hunting down some of the more elusive champions, and I think it would fit her style.

Once again,gameplay>thematics this debuff does not belong on mobile things,the very idea of it was to give immobile champions a chance against them,not help them establish dominance,elise is far from bad right now,and is above the vast majority of champions in viability,buffing her,especially like this,is senseless.

I wasn't suggesting simply buffing her, I was suggesting changing up her kit make her a mobile champion that hunts down other mobile champions using the proposed debuff as a component. Simply adding this debuff to her kit would not fix her unhealthy kit (and in some cases would likely cause more problems).

Finally, we must remember the goal here isn't to nerf mobility (and the champions who rely on it) into non-existence, the goal is to create interesting and meaningful gameplay. Additionally, we don't need a Rock Paper Scissors style of power balance where immobile beats anti-mobility beats mobility beats immobile.

the idea is to give immobile champions tools to fight back,not auto win(the way mobility currently does to lack of it)

This leads to purely reactive and limiting choices, which results in an even more limited meta and less fun. The debuff being proposed is meant to open up more options against mobility and expand the meta.

I hate to disappoint you,but it doesn't get any more limited than the current meta.

This was intended as a cautionary thought about the implications of inserting this debuff into the game. Making this effect too powerful could lead to a meta equally or even more limited that the current meta. I bolded the relevant (and most important part) of what I said in that paragraph, and I still stand by it. Take care to read the intended meaning of what is written, and not take criticism as an attack.

Due to character limits, I've had to edit some content out, but I feel I left the relevant parts in. Also, quoting text containing quotes is apparently somewhat broken.

manbearswine1 votes

The point I was trying to make here is that Viktor's gravity trap as it currently exists does have an impact on hyper mobile champions.

sure it does,every skill in the game effects hyper mobile champs,they just dash away for "ez outplays",is a skillshot nearly as effective on hyper mobile champions as it is on those who aren't? now how about viktors gravity trap? falls under the same category? hmm...how is the viability of skillshot based champions then? not so great huh,well,how is the viability of viktor then? it definitely fits well on his trap.

Elise has a high win rate--but only in the Master and Challenger tiers. In any lower tier, her win rate is significantly decreased. This indicates to me that her kit is unhealthy. This, to me, is bad. But it is bad in a different way that Sejuani's situation is bad.

WHAT?! low winrate means very little,at best it could imply(and whatever it could imply is completely negated by her above average presence at worlds,she got much more picks than the vast majority of champions),and on a champion who is rather hard like elise it basically says nothing,and the last thing it means is an unhealthy kit.(an unhealthy kit is generally something with gameplay issues,obvious examples would be prerework ap yi,and prenerf/prerework/reworked raka,elises kit isn't any more or less healthy than that of lee/kha(do with that what you will))

I wasn't suggesting simply buffing her, I was suggesting changing up her kit make her a mobile champion that hunts down other mobile champions using the proposed debuff as a component. Simply adding this debuff to her kit would not fix her unhealthy kit (and in some cases would likely cause more problems).

what in the bloody hell are you talking about,her kit is that of the standard meta jungler,giving her that would make her a meta jungler...who counters meta junglers and picks,aka broken bullshit.

This was intended as a cautionary thought about the implications of inserting this debuff into the game. Making this effect too powerful could lead to a meta equally or even more limited that the current meta. I bolded the relevant (and most important part) of what I said in that paragraph, and I still stand by it. Take care to read the intended meaning of what is written, and not take criticism as an attack.

first of all,I agree with you that intentionally it may be overdone to the point it might kick out hyper mobile champions,frankly that's a risk we should be willing to take as they have dominated for so long the world wouldn't end if they took a short-medium break from calling the meta their b!tch,as to making the meta more limited,sorry but there really isn't anywhere the current meta can devolve,every lane basically has a hierarchy of picks(with maybe 2 two champions occasional sharing a power level),it doesn't get any more stale than this.

Tarreb1 votes

WHAT?! low winrate means very little,at best it could imply(and whatever it could imply is completely negated by her above average presence at worlds,she got much more picks than the vast majority of champions),and on a champion who is rather hard like elise it basically says nothing,and the last thing it means is an unhealthy kit.(an unhealthy kit is generally something with gameplay issues,obvious examples would be prerework ap yi,and prenerf/prerework/reworked raka,elises kit isn't any more or less healthy than that of lee/kha(do with that what you will))

Anomalous win rates and disparity of win rates between different perceived skill levels are not an absolute indicator of champion health. Such anomalies can be caused by a multitude of factors, ranging from increased popularity due to highlights from pro play or due to someone new getting promoted into the challenger tier with different champion preferences. However, these anomalies can signal potential issues with champions.

Elise as she currently exists has the potential to have a strong impact on games. In the hands of a highly skilled player, she can be very strong. However, she seems to have an exceedingly and unusually high skill requirement for even a base level of competency. With Elise, it seems that players are either great Elise players or terrible Elise players. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with 'good' or 'okay' Elise players, only the extremes. In my opinion, this is what makes her current kit feel unhealthy.

I wasn't suggesting simply buffing her, I was suggesting changing up her kit make her a mobile champion that hunts down other mobile champions using the proposed debuff as a component. Simply adding this debuff to her kit would not fix her unhealthy kit (and in some cases would likely cause more problems).

what in the bloody hell are you talking about,her kit is that of the standard meta jungler,giving her that would make her a meta jungler...who counters meta junglers and picks,aka broken bullshit.

I'm sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but you seem to be stuck on a misconception that what I'm suggesting this debuff be attached to her current kit, with no other changes. This is not what I'm suggesting. I agree wholeheartedly that doing so would not be a good idea.

What I'm intending to suggest is adding this debuff as a component of a larger set of changes to her kit that would not simply result in "a meta jungler who counters meta junglers," but something new and (potentially) unique instead.

manbearswine1 votes

Anomalous win rates and disparity of win rates between different perceived skill levels are not an absolute indicator of champion health. Such anomalies can be caused by a multitude of factors, ranging from increased popularity due to highlights from pro play or due to someone new getting promoted into the challenger tier with different champion preferences. However, these anomalies can signal potential issues with champions.

I really don't see how,or why...

Elise as she currently exists has the potential to have a strong impact on games. In the hands of a highly skilled player, she can be very strong. However, she seems to have an exceedingly and unusually high skill requirement for even a base level of competency. With Elise, it seems that players are either great Elise players or terrible Elise players. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with 'good' or 'okay' Elise players, only the extremes. In my opinion, this is what makes her current kit feel unhealthy.

I can say the same thing about lee sin,except the fact he get's consistently insanely stupid on good players in his current state... is his kit unhealthy then? should we change it too? a high skillcap isn't a bad thing at all,I'm in fact a big fan of unnecessarily complex kits(riot not so much),it also grants you some defense against the nerf hammer,and some priority to buffs(riot balances around winrate way more than they should),seriously,if a champion you like is misrepresented by winrates in a bad way(i.e it's lower than what you would expect it to be) you should just be happy about it.

I'm sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but you seem to be stuck on a misconception that what I'm suggesting this debuff be attached to her current kit, with no other changes. This is not what I'm suggesting. I agree wholeheartedly that doing so would not be a good idea.

the issue is that your problem stems from her winrate,aside from being a full rework you would need to make her A LOT easier to play,is that something you really think most of her playerbase would want? because I highly doubt it.

What I'm intending to suggest is adding this debuff as a component of a larger set of changes to her kit that would not simply result in "a meta jungler who counters meta junglers," but something new and (potentially) unique instead.

well she would have to lose a lot of damage...a carry jungler with mobility negation would be crazy broken,she will also probably have to lose one of her forms to become simpler so her winrate can represent her better,do you really think changes of this magnitude are worth making?

AbodyHUN6666 votes

Nasus W would be a little too much, the end of it already feels like a snare, and he doesn't really need a second rotation of it to catch you.

Earthlord Jazz5 votes

First off, I really like this idea. Mobility is incredibly strong and I personally believe my LOL experience would be better if there were ways to combat said mobility creep without resorting to more mobility as a counter. Unfortunately, I feel like it's unlikely for Riot to adopt this CC.

Here's the main reason: Riot is all about clarity (and perhaps simplicity). You mentioned Zed in your Ashe example. So with this new CC (I'll call it cripple) he can't use his shadow teleport (from his W). But he can still use his W initially to get the shadow mimicking portion. I can visualize many examples where players can't understand why they couldn't teleport back to their shadow. Then they rage and complain to Riot about the bugs (you know the playerbase here).

Notice how Riot has been getting rid of silences recently? It's weird, especially for new players, when you can run around and auto and do everything normally except for casting spells. From what I understand, Riot does not like silences because it's this ambiguous CC that confuses players.

Now imagine an even more ambiguous CC such as crippled. You can see why Riot would be a little skeptical about it.

But seriously though, I really want this to be a thing. Keep up the good work!

BottleCapster5 votes

Notice how Riot has been getting rid of silences recently? It's weird, especially for new players, when you can run around and auto and do everything normally except for casting spells. From what I understand, Riot does not like silences because it's this ambiguous CC that confuses players

Riot has been removing silences from the mid lane since they encourage little to no counterplay in a lane where all damage is determined by abilities. When Assassins, (The most thematically fitting for silence) have it, anyone who can't shut them down early enough has little chance to fight back once its click- you have no damage while i 100-0 you.

Soraka for instance is an example of Riot adding more silence to the game, and in truth Silence is not ambiguous at all. Anyone who has ever played an RPG should understand the concept of silence and the Chat bubble ... symbol relays this well enough. Overall Riot is not against Silence as a form of CC, but rather believe that it is better to delegate it to utility characters like lulu and soraka since in the mid lane, there is no counterplay to having both high damage and stopping your opponent from doing any while you do that high damage.

OyddAWqJ5r3 votes

Riot has been removing silences from the mid lane since they encourage little to no counterplay in a lane where all damage is determined by abilities.

I believe you mean discourage.

Edit: Grammar fail, misinterpreted.

AnomalousChimera2 votes

Nope. 'They' is referring to silences. Consider this: "Silences encourage little to no counterplay in a lane where all damage is determined by abilities.

OyddAWqJ5r3 votes

Oh I see. Misinterpreted it.

BottleCapster2 votes

I believe you mean discourage.

No i in fact do mean encourage, but discourage can work with some slight tweaks of the wording. Riot wants to encourage counterplay, and in my sentence i basically said that they want to get silences out of mid because as a form of cc silence allows or encourages very little to no counterplay at all. If i were to use Discourage then i could just say that Silence discourages counterplay, but that statement itself is too absolute for my taste, as silences can be done right, Riot just needs to implement them better.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

I read it as:

** Riot has been removing silences** from the mid lane since they (Riot) encourage little to no counterplay in a lane where all damage is determined by abilities.

Simple misunderstanding. Coulda just said

Riot has been removing silences from the mid lane since silences encourage little to no counterplay in a lane where all damage is determined by abilities.

Now there's no room for misinterpretation and grammar has been properly used. Little grammar lesson for the day lol

mi ramfan4 votes

I understand your point about this CC not being particularly clear, but I think that the gains in counterplay compared to a snare or silence are worth the loss in clarity.

patmax172 votes

snare has the exact same problem, to the extent where if i'm playing nautilus and an enemy snares me, i can't even fire my q (grab), because that's a skill that moves me

Kuroi865 votes

Pretty sure there is already CC that prevents use of movement abilities. Stun, Fear, Taunt, Suppress. I think a good question would be, do we want to buff movement impairing CC like snare and root to prevent the use of movement abilities.

Earthlord Jazz3 votes

Pretty sure there is already CC that prevents use of movement abilities. Stun, Fear, Taunt, Suppress. I think a good question would be, do we want to buff movement impairing CC like snare and root to prevent the use of movement abilities.

Not to mention silence XD

Kuroi862 votes

Dernit! I knew I was missing one. >_<

mi ramfan5 votes

I'm not denying the existence of CCs that limit movement that are already in the game. The reason I favor adding this option into the game is that it serves a specific function to combat mobility creep while having more counterplay than either a snare or silence would have alone.

Think about it this way:

In any given engagement, you have two options: fight or run away. With a silence, you can only run away until the silence ends, giving your opponent X seconds of free damage. With a snare, you can't run away, so you have to fight whether or not you think you can come out ahead.

With this CC variant, you can choose either to fight or run, but your ability to dive deeper into the fight or use an escape to run away is limited. It has more counterplay then either a silence or snare alone would have.

patmax174 votes

I think the point here is a CC that acts like snare, except it still allows normal movement ^_^

SecretAgentHulk4 votes

I think any ability of this kind would be severely OP, but I mainly play bruisers and tanks so of course I would think that.

Cozarkian17 votes

It's like a weaker version of root. Is root OP?

pandaleon9 votes

well root isnt too scary cause you can auto and cast you spells. so like if your a syndra for exaple you can unload your ult and other spells in that two seconds and then flash and/or die at the end knowing you have unloaded everything you got.

I acually like this, it is in between a silence and a root. it would be nice since riot seems to be trying to minimize the pro-valance of silence. defiantly leaves room for conterplay. my only worries is that it wont be supper useful in all situations... or would straight up counter some champs. making the champions more a nitch picks... thought to be fair some already are like that. the internal struggle is real

I vote to Name it Cripple

Cindikle4 votes

I'd say it's a great idea. Can call it "Bound" or something.

I'm not 100% on your suggested champions though. Ashe really doesn't need much help in terms of kiting. Her kiting is top notch. Her weak point is that she's easy to engage on. It would honestly just make it harder on champions who need to use MS buffs to catch her. Talon and Singed would work great though.

Aatrox - Add it to his ult. Targets he AA's cannot use mobility effects for 1 second. Cassiopia - Add it to her ult as well. Giving a lingering effect after she uses it that anyone she faces and is also facing her cannot use a mobility effect in her direction for a few seconds. Karma - Targets effected by her ulted tether cannot use mobility effects. Leblanc - Add it to her Q proc to replace her silence Varus - His E's AoE disables mobility effect within it. Miss Fortune - A different effect with the same idea. Using mobility abilities within her R or E deals her impure shots damage to the target and adds a stack. It doesn't bind them, but it punishes. Viktor - Add it to the first tick of his W.

A Retarded Clown4 votes

Honestly, the issue is, it wouldn't be all that useful. If there's a champion that is running up to you in clear vision 9/10 times you can peel/kill him before he gets to you just because of how supports and range work.

Most times you die to an assassin it's because they get to you from the side or some angle where you couldn't spot them until too late, So this CC becomes great against bad players but useless against someone who knows how to get the jump on you by controlling vision.

e.g. Fiddles jumps on you from the side, will that CC help you? Rengar gets on you, Ghostbladed Talon appears from side and pops ult...basically, you need to pre empt the gap closer to actually use this CC and if I can pre empt it....a stun/snare/root is 10x more effective.

Also, the fantasy you have of Ashe 1 v 1 ing guys with gap closers is EXTREMELY toxic to this game. When ashe was strong back in s1 she was the sole reason that xin zhao and other cancerous bruisers were created, and then those bruisers were the reason cancer Vayne and super adcs with ms were created and here we are now.

ADC is a team based role that when offered protection, can pump out a RIDICULOUS amount of team fight damage. ADC's 1 v 1 ing bruisers/assassins is not healthy for the game in its current states because they are already ridiculously strong in team fights. When Vayne is ahead in a game, tell me how good it feels to play anything in that game? You can't kill her in team fights because of her stealth, she kills your tanks and in split push she can 1 v 1 all your assassins and bruisers. A world in which even the least mobile of adcs (Ashe) can beat bruisers with gap closers means that the ones WITH mobility will literally become unkillable.

Does this mean I hate ashe? No i love her, I feel she's what adc's should be about, positioning and timing strategically rather than Korean APM mechanics. The reason this game has shifted to Asian dominance of late is not because Koreans have some superior strategy or brains, it's just that they are naturally more gifted in hand eye coordination and speed. But you need to keep in mind that any non specific buff to ashe is a triple buff to mobile adcs.

IAintDarius3 votes

With this change, Ashe would gain a massive buff to her kiting ability in the mobility metagame. Currently, Ashe can kite immobile champions like Udyr but has no way to deal with champions like Zed, Jarvan, and Vi by herself. With this change, Ashe would become able to prevent one assassin or bruiser who is within her range from jumping onto her, but she would still be unable to protect herself from multiple attackers or attackers who get the jump on her.

So in other words the only way to kill her is a 2/3v1...totally reasonable...

darkdill1 votes

Or engage her with someone who's ranged. Generally another ADC will clobber Ashe in a straight-up fight, and mages will kill her before she can do any DPS.

IAintDarius2 votes

Or engage her with someone who's ranged. Generally another ADC will clobber Ashe in a straight-up fight, and

"generally" Meaning in a perfect scenario where two adcs autoattack each other she may lose.

mages will kill her before she can do any DPS.

That's how mages work. That's the equivalence of saying "Just CC her" as an argument.

Thee ZerO3 votes

I guess it makes no sense for people to be able to dash/blink inside a mega adhesive from singed. But still, if you aren't allowed to use your dash when ashe is shooting you with her Q, that's OP as heck. There are many champs which rely solely on their movement. This would be like perma-silencing them.

YvieZileanOddly3 votes

Why are summoner spells exempt? If they aren't from roots or stuns then I don't see why this should be.

ItsStout3 votes

Well, ignoring the fact that this is redundant beyond belief considering silences, stuns, snares, roots, entangles, fears, and charms already do this, Its worth noting that this would make about 40% of champions useless, and Ashe 100% overpowered.

So its a horrid idea.

Narasimha2 votes

If anything this should be added to enemies trapped in JarvanIV 's Cataclysm. Maybe then I could finally ult people without expecting them to run.

Cozarkian3 votes

That removes some of the pre-game strategy in draft modes regarding when to pick J4 and who to pick against him.

Narasimha1 votes

I would certainly hope so. There shouldn't be a case where a champion's defining move is entirely negated by a low-cd dash or blink.

Cozarkian8 votes

It's not entirely negated, it still does damage. And J4's ult isn't intended to be completely inescapable, which is why it doesn't root them now.

Also, low-cd dash's or blinks work as well or better against many other champions ults. You can get out of range of Kat's ult; completely negate Ashe's, Ez's, Lux's, Jinx's, Sion's, etc... ults by dodging; escape GP's ult, and plenty more.

mi ramfan3 votes

The problem is, then J4's ult has pretty much no counterplay for opponents other then Flash.

Maybe only J4's target could be unable to gapclose while anybody else can jump out?

Earthlord Jazz5 votes

The problem is, then J4's ult has pretty much no counterplay for opponents other then Flash.

Maybe only J4's target could be unable to gapclose while anybody else can jump out?

This would be way too confusing in-game

Hayaishi2 votes

IMO slows should affect the mobility spells imo.

Fisk2 votes

I think that honestly this would make a better item than it would a addition onto champions. Less balancing work. Make it an active or something.

Four of Ten2 votes

Smite (the game) has a cc like the one you describe called cripple. Imo its pretty balanced.As long as Abilities that have cripple are not combined with slows, silences, or any other form of cc i think they would work well for leauge.

TheDarkPrince1 votes

In SMITE Its called cripple.

Phrite4 votes

Cripple in Smite will stop you in the middle of a movement ability though so this would be a little less powerful. Not posting this to argue but just for the purposes of discussion.

Personally I think it should operate just like Cripple from Smite if added. I think that all movement abilities should be blocked (including one's like Vi Ult and Summoner Spells) and I think it should interrupt movement abilities (like a Leona Dash). Something like Poseidon's Whirlpool could be pretty cool to see in LoL with the appropriate tweaks.

I disagree with several of the champions the OP suggests be retrofitted with "Cripple." Especially Ashe. She does not need a Cripple at all, brings a ton of utility to the table already, and has a reasonable win rate in ranked.

Saelani1 votes

So you want a root? Which is already in the game.

Direwolfiez2 votes

Did you even read what he wrote?

Drakexionyx2 votes

Obviously not LOL.

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