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Runes were meant for experimentation and innovation

mi ramfan··46 votes·2,627 views

How many people out there actually have enough IP banked up for them to feel comfortable experimenting with runes?

I mean, sure, the IDEA of the system sounds great. The competitive minded can run all the standard setups to get through the game, individual players can switch out some or all runes in a set to get different bonuses that their playstyle favors, etc. The system allows people to run full pages of AP on LeBlanc to instagib people with 50+ AP at level 2, or take crit damage runes on Ashe to randomly do 200 damage with her passive proc at level 1.

The reality is, Runes are simply too expensive for me to want to experiment with them.

Buying a set of 810 IP reds/yellows/blues costs 7200+ IP. For most players, 7200 IP is a month's worth of grinding normals and ranked. If I buy a champion with that 7200 IP, at least I'm getting a completely different experience than the champions I already have. Spending it on runes just feels shitty, especially since I know that if my rune page doesn't work out I just blew a month of grinding for nothing.

I understand that the second purpose of runes is to be an IP sink for veterans, but surely we can think of other ways to reward people who already have everything without making experimentation feel like investing your life savings in a lemonade stand.

40 Comments

redniwediS8 votes

I've found that by the time you have enough runes to experiment freely you understand how they all work, and no longer need to experiment at all.

mi ramfan4 votes

It's not just experimenting with troll setups tbh. Part of the idea with runes is that players would develop their own unique setups that fit their playstyle. Of course, when the game exploded, a rune meta developed just like the lane meta did.

Standard setups aren't a bad thing so long as players feel confident enough to experiment so that the "standard" continues evolving over a season or period of time. But with these kind of IP costs on runes, everyone except the longest-running or professional players will just buy the standard runes. Weeks of grinding are at stake in the rune section of the store, and buying a new champion gives most players a much higher chance to enjoy themselves then buying an unorthodox set of runes.

Yulen Xoshxius2 votes

This is why I haven't even bothered with runes yet. Granted I WILL for the rune sale as that will probably be the only time I will be remotely interested.

redniwediS1 votes

Experimenting with runes is all in an attempt to better understand them. I personally use more scaling runes than a more meta setup would allow, however I know exactly what runes to take to fit my playstyle in a given situation, and I don't even own all the runes yet. The window for me experimenting is pretty much over already.

Darkwind6 votes

well...

im in the minority, i have almost all the runes and all champs. which means i can mess around with them almost any way i want. but they prolly should be quite a lot cheaper

Alljoy2 votes

I hope you have a permit for that lemonade stand.

Yulen Xoshxius2 votes

I am sure once you have been here a really long time you can afford all the runes to experiment with... It sucks I did not join years ago to get the cool skins that are no longer acquirable like Judgement kayle, or to be able to get all the IP to get the runes and champs.

mi ramfan8 votes

The number of established players who have all the champions, let alone all the runes, is much lower then you might think.

I've played League of Legends seriously (2-3 games average per day) for 3 years now, and I don't even have all the champions. Neither does the friend who introduced me to the game, and we've both spent plenty of RP.

I want to experiment with runes, but there's simply no way to justify the cost when it costs a month's worth of grinding to replace a quarter of a rune page with new runes. Oh yeah, and if the new rune setup doesn't work? Those runes are USELESS. Goodbye, December!

Yulen Xoshxius1 votes

Ah, I wasn't sure if it was true or not, I just recall last time I saw a post about prices there were several people who were saying "its not bad" for that reason. But even if it WASN'T bad for people who have been here for a long time: Doesn't help expand the player base when newer players are at a greater disadvantage.

rinsujo13 votes

I've been playing for 3 years now - I don't want to know how much money i've sunk into champs, skins, IP boosts, the like. (I know for a fact it's over $1000 - I used to put in $20 a week at one of my old jobs) There are still 7 champs I dont own. I own 20 rune pages - each one is filled for different situations. I have 3 sets of yellows, and 3 sets of blues. Flat Armor, scaling Armor, hp/lvl. Flat MR, scaling MR, Flat AP. the HP/lvl yellows i bought back in S3 when you could safely build health against anything other than Kogmaw or the few people who knew what bloodrazors passive was. Since then, i use them in ARAMs. I own a decent number of Reds. - All i consistently use is Armor if I'm tanky support, AS in jungle, ArPen as ADC or AD top, or MPen if i'm squishy support. Experimentation is a joke. Owning all of the runes is a pipe dream - it'll take years on its own, after you already own all the champs. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Yulen Xoshxius16 votes

Thank you for letting me know I have no hope XD

Demonsolder212 votes

wait you cant own all the runes isn't there a limit as to how much you can have.

rinsujo2 votes

The cap is 700 runes. There are 88 types of runes, of which you can own 9 each. 88*9=792 You can get damn close.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

That's dumb. We should be able to sell runes.

ParinoidPanda1 votes

Work the sales angle. Don't buy too many champs, buy the expensive runes on sale.

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mi ramfan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XfR3GxA9,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-14T05:39:26.993+0000)

I understand that the second purpose of runes is to be an IP sink for veterans, but surely we can think of other ways to reward people who already have everything without making experimentation feel like investing your life savings in a lemonade stand.

THERE! Now that you know that runes are IP sinks and there is no reason why some runes cost 250 and others 820 you can invest on that lemon stand!

Angry Monster1 votes

your wrong right of the bat with premise. Runes are not about experimentation. If they were they would have to change every 2 months to make experimenting worth it.

Runes are to bolster stats to fit/fine tune a play style. That is it, nothing more and nothing less.

Where the hell you get such a stupid idea from?

mi ramfan6 votes

One might argue that in order to fine tune a playstyle, you need to experiment with different rune setups...

The only reason for runes to exist is for players to run different setups than each other. If everyone except the elite and 3000+ game players are running the same pages because experimentation is too expensive, then the game might be better served by adding the standard pages to everyone's stats and removing runes entirely.

Angry Monster1 votes

please you can do basic math and understand what works, calling on the ""NEED OF EXPERIMENTATION"" is weak. Most of the optimal rune pages are agreed upon at this point. And honestly silver and below should not be thinking for themselves when it comes to runes anyways. They should look at pro-build and see what is being used.

If you took away runes you would have to load way more stats than rune pages ever gave. Most champs can be tweaked for the lane they are in.

Also this is a free to play game. You want everything then pay for it. You seem to think its riots job to ensure that you have everything you want in the game. Riot gives you 2 options. 1 pay to unlock champs or IP boosts, 2 you do not pay and have to put in item & effort to obtain to own everything.

You are not entitled to all the runes. Your not even entitled to all the champs in the game. You do get to choose your currency though, Money or time. You seemed to have picked time, which is fine. Let riot make money on the people that want to spend cash.

mi ramfan6 votes

{quoted}

please you can do basic math and understand what works, calling on the ""NEED OF EXPERIMENTATION"" is weak. Most of the optimal rune pages are agreed upon at this point. And honestly silver and below should not be thinking for themselves when it comes to runes anyways. They should look at pro-build and see what is being used.

Basic math doesn't actually explain what it will feel like to play the rune changes in game. Let's say I'm considering running mana regen seals instead of armor seals. I know just by looking at them that I'm going to be more vulnerable to AD assassins like Zed and Talon, but I'll be able to use my spells more often without going OOM to compensate. Is that enough to justify taking mana regen seals over armor?

That kind of change is a playstyle difference; nobody can "do the math" and say "yes, the mana regen is better than the armor" or vice versa. (If you know somebody who can, send them here or to the LoL subreddit so they can get a few hundred upvotes!) I'd want to try that to make sure it worked for me, but because of the way the rune system works you're 1800-7200 IP in the hole before you even start testing.

(side note: I won't spend much time on this, but saying that silver and lower players shouldn't try to experiment is just ridiculously condescending. You were silver or lower once too, how would you feel if someone told you "shut up, you're a lower elo, you have no right to talk about the game".)

If you took away runes you would have to load way more stats than rune pages ever gave. Most champs can be tweaked for the lane they are in.

Yes, and it's easier to make rune pages for specific lanes and roles if runes are cheaper. If you've ever run into a situation where your mid laner is getting bodied by a Zed because their mid lane page isn't done and they're filling in with support runes, then you'll realize that experienced players like us benefit from cheaper runes as well. Cheaper runes means your teammates are more likely to have those optimized rune pages you like.

Also this is a free to play game. You want everything then pay for it. You seem to think its riots job to ensure that you have everything you want in the game. Riot gives you 2 options. 1 pay to unlock champs or IP boosts, 2 you do not pay and have to put in item & effort to obtain to own everything.

The entitlement argument is frankly ridiculous. Yes, Riot runs League of Legends for free and we're all grateful that they choose to do so. However, just because someone is giving you something for free doesn't make them, their decisions, or their product immune to criticism. If somebody gave me a free sample of a soft drink while walking down the street, and I mostly liked it but thought the aftertaste was unpleasant, I'd be sure to tell them so they could improve their product.

You are not entitled to all the runes. Your not even entitled to all the champs in the game. You do get to choose your currency though, Money or time. You seemed to have picked time, which is fine. Let riot make money on the people that want to spend cash.

They've made plenty of money on me, and stand to make more with this bonus RP week. But it's not about the money I've spent, or you've spent, or anyone else has spent.

If Riot supports Runes as one of the primary tools of customization in this game, they should consider changing the prices of runes to make this experimentation more viable. If Riot believes that runes are just generic stat packages like you seem to (correct me if you feel I've mischaracterized your argument) then they should say so to clarify their position.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

Standard pages do work, an AD page, AP page and maybe a heavy armor page (special lane setup for top lane, since AD assassins are quite common compared to AP champs that require full MR pages). And the beauty of it is, most standard runes are within 205 - 410 IP range, and the 820 ones are usually specialised ones or just useless (hello crit damage). By the time you would want a specialised rune page, you would've probably mastered one champ that uses it and thus probably buying less champs at this point anyway.

B3ER1 votes

Riot likes their rune model, they're just lying to us when they say that they consider the rune prices to be oppressive. I remember a Rioter saying that reducing the prices of existing runes wouldn't be fair to the people who already bought them. So why the fuck are all new runes still being priced at the 820/2000 tier? Wouldn't you want to contain the oppressiveness of your runes?

Miku Lv991 votes

I can do the math, though not exactly, but still good enough approximations that I pretty much know what's going to be best without ever having to play a game with a particular setup. I always thought runes were power, whereas champions were just new, not more powerful, options. So I always prioritized runes and got to level 30 still only having like 8-10 champions and no IP sitting around. I never really saw runes as anything for experimentation but rather almost as purely part of a grind for power. And I think their high prices suck. Newer players should lose a battle because of something their opponent did better, not just, "Oh, they had higher stats, that doesn't count, so I have no reason to improve my game, he just had and advantage, so just grind until I'm that way, too." Which was pretty much my attitude when I first started this game.

Mikal Pikal1 votes

Mathematically, what's better on ezreal? three mana regen glyphs or more magic resist? How about bonus move speed quint compared to lifesteal quint?

There are certain choices available that aren't that amenable to mathematical calculations since. The only way to know what works better is to try them both and see how they feel. OP's point is that the price makes it so that this kind of testing is prohibitive.

DrCyanide1 votes

The T1/T2 Rune changes should be what you're looking for. Don't remember when they go live, but cheaper runes for experiments, then you buckle down and buy the ones you think are worth it.

Hilltop Sunset1 votes

I made a post about this a while back. I stand by the fact that prices are ridiculous.

Sammystorm1 votes

Eh. You can live off of 3 basic pages. AD and AP and jungle.

Is it nice to have a separate rune page for certain champs? occasionally. Usually the standard rune page is better. The place that can really make a difference is masteries.

Xengre1 votes

I am have almost every rune in the game, but this came at a cost. The number of games I have played since beta wins and losses, and the lack of purchasing hardly any champs (even back when 6300 wasn't every single champ which probably makes up a 1/3rd of the roster now) almost every for 3+ years minus or forced to use real world currency (only twice?) to get what I have. I now own almost all champions and runes.

This is actually a sad ordeal as they keep spiking champion prices while never doing IP events and making T3 runes generally very difficult to get, particularly anything not of the generic armor flat/ad flat/mres blue category. The only reason I have even kept playing since S3 was because I had fun developing different rune and mastery synergy/cheese strats for different champions but this requires a large number of runes (including runes outside their best categories such as armor non-yellow, CD runes, mana regen pages except maybe 1 section, etc.) as well as a large number of champions to test it with or you have very limited options with a small pool of either category.

It would be nice to see something like AD Quint packs, or AD Marks, Mres Scaling blues, etc. for maybe 65% of their price when purchased as a large set (and NOT something like full page AD that most will not want). For those who want to they can buy the current runes individually if they only need 1-3 (say 3 aspd marks, or 1 crit chance red) though maybe those prices can drop by 20% or something as well so those buying just 2-3 don't get hit too hard by their decision if they later opt for a full mark/quint/seal/glyph set with maybe a % decrease in cost per rune already owned.

iainB851 votes

As someone who has burned excess IP on obscure things like Energy Regen Runes / Spellvamp Quints / etc... I can tell you I use them on zero pages today. The popular runes that you lose by going them are popular for a reason... they are just flat out more useful in almost every situation.

It's not because people can't afford to experiment with them... if this were true, at least the pros would use them... it's just that they are flat out inferior.

You aren't missing anything but severe disappointment, friend.

The5lacker1 votes

Runes as an idea have completely failed in every way, shape, and form, and only exist as a grind-fest because someone in marketing in one game somewhere said that grind was necessary, so now every game for some reason thinks that grind = good game despite every player ever in the history of mankind SCREAMING otherwise.

The only reason it still exists is because Riot is absolutely terrified of any actual change and instead seeks to pacify itself and us by simply releasing more complex champions and doing back and forth number tweaks, because they're afraid of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. News flash: You still have to get rid of the bathwater, and your baby has gotten prune-y as balls and is starting to drown.

balbraaksel1 votes

If you really want to experiment with runes, you can get tier 3 runes for just 375 IP but they'd be random so you will get secondary runes too. But it's really cheap considering that you can get 2050 IP runes that way. You can get tier 3 runes for 375 IP with buying tier 1 runes that cost 15 IP and spam them into the Rune Combiner, 25 tier 1 runes become one tier 3 rune.

Do know that the Rune Combiner soon will be removed.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I mean, sure, the IDEA of the system sounds great.

Honestly, the idea of the rune system sounds terrible. It's like the bad part of the old WoW talent trees, where you get to choose which tiny bonus you want. It quickly devolves into a trivial math exercise with a clearly best solution for 99% of cases.

The reality is, Runes are simply too expensive for me to want to experiment with them.

Seems pretty true. At least until you've played for a couple years.

Of course, I don't have any interest in experimenting with runes, and would be generally happier with life if they just disappeared.

Meep Man1 votes

I use them sometimes for experimentation. I mean, I use gold per second seals and quints on Gangplank with Utility Tree masteries and I found it pretty successful since you are gaining nearly double your normal per second passively.

Konidias1 votes

Buy IP boosters... why do you think they exist? Riot needs to make money somehow, and that's one of the ways it does so.

I've been playing the game since August 2014... I've spent maybe $200-$250 on this game and have more than half the champs, a dozen or so skins, enough tier 3 runes for multiple rune page builds and I'm working on expanding my runes now.

Buy the bundles to unlock a bunch of champs quickly and cheaply... Then buy champs as they go on sale (with RP)

You'll get all the champs in no time. Eventually you can just play a lot and buy champs with IP, but I would recommend first buying all the tier 3 runes you need/want.

I mean if the whole thread is about "I can't get the runes I want in a certain amount of time" then your answer is "buy IP boosters". That's it.

What is the point of IP boosters if not to gain IP faster so you can buy things faster?

acutebunnys1 votes

Just gotta get those crit dmg runes

aaronconlin1 votes

I definitely don't, whenever I get a decent amount of IP I buy a new champion. An additional rune page is 6300 IP, the same as a new champion. Plus the cost of a full rune page is pretty steep. I wanted to buy 9 hybrid penetration marks, 820 IP (I think) each, over 7k IP...

EzraTwitch1 votes

212469 I am comfortable experimenting with runes.

CommandShockwave1 votes

I'll tell you one thing: I've long since finished buying runes.... and there's very little experimentation once you have them. You basically just make a page for every possible situation then leave it until the meta shifts and you need to switch things out. Believe it or not there's a cookie cutter page for almost everything, and it's almost always optimal unless you're experienced enough in a role or with a champ to decide when/if you need something different.

WINTR1 votes

I'm from the future your wish came true:P.

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