I think Riot need to change talisman active. This item is hyped too much and prevent Ap traditional supports to shine. It should give the ms boost to the caster and the target nearest to the cursor(prioritizes the most wounded allied champion if no allied champions are near the cursor)-exactly like heal. Then you wouldn't buy talisman every game and then traditional supports/poke supports could be picked more.
Kaine4 votesTraditional POKE supports are less common because the amount of innate sustain in lane with lifesteal/dorans/pots is so high that anything less than 100-0 kills are ineffective.
While talisman has an amazing ulti, Frost is just as powerful in the huge gold lead it grants and the ability to itemize very aggressively - a Frost start and then finishing with a talisman is very common to get the best of both worlds.
Papy Mougeot3 votes"a Frost start and then finishing with a talisman is very common to get the best of both worlds." This is the problem imo. If talisman is a must have then it's unbalanced.
Tsiddique1 votesFrostfangs active is actually not that bad. It's like the opposite of talisman, good for slowing people down when they are chasing you.
Papy Mougeot2 votesIt's certainly not that bad but it seems talisman is just too good for not being purchased in high elo and pro games.
Even math tell me that the active may be over the top. The active worth 2376g per persons so 13773g for 5 persons in gold value for the item. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Talisman_of_Ascension
Also nerfing the active the way I suggest would make it no longer mandatory at all for supports like lulu(she got a huge scaling ms boost in her kit) and nami(her passive offer scaling flat ms when she use her ability on allies).
Hyrum Graff1 votesThe problem is that FQC's active has too short of a range, so it's much more difficult to use effectively than talisman.
Tsiddique1 votesYeah I agree
Hyrum Graff2 votes@Rito: my suggestion is to increase the FQC cast range, and also to increase the gold income from the other items. Additionally I'd remove some of the gp10 from FQC and increase the gold on hit. FQC is supposed to be the risky item, but the passive gp10 gives as much as talisman's total.
Kaine1 votes"a Frost start and then finishing with a talisman is very common to get the best of both worlds." This is the problem imo. If talisman is a must have then it's unbalanced.
I disagree - If anything my scenario highlights that the gold generation from frost is so powerful it allows you to change to another item at a loss later in the game.
While the active from talisman is incredibly powerful it has very clear tradeoffs in both damage and gold generation. Frost Queens tradeoff is sacrificing talismans utility for increased damage and gold generation, and I find both items on equal footing, the current meta just makes a team speed buff more useful than an enemy slow super late game only because hyper mobile champions are in style (Draven, Yi, etc).
What I -do- see is a problem is that talisman is a valid start on all-in supports like thresh and leona - they should very clearly be getting face of the mountain which is, I believe, deliberately undertuned because of how game breaking it was on release.
The problem is not directly that Talisman gives so much utility, it's that Face of the mountain gives so little - it's HP shield is as dangerous to the support as it is helpful to the carry and makes best use scenarios complicated and feel bad in all conditions - I use it and I die but my carry lives, I failed. I dont use it and my carry dies but I live, I failed. Talismans I use it and we both die, I did all I could. I use it and we both lived, I succeeded.
Currently the picks are 10% Talisman, 5% Frost, 3% Mountain however with the Leona Thresh bot lane meta Talisman is stealing from Mountain and not Frost - it probably should be 5% Talisman, 5% frost, and 8% Mountain.
Papy Mougeot1 votesWell it's a matter of opinions but I think that talisman active is just too strong and will probably remain the best choice for premade until it's nerfed.
Remlap12231 votesI almost never buy Talisman. Whenever I play support, I either go FOTM for an aggressive tanky support, or Frost Queen's Claim for an AP heavy poke support. With the scavenger mastery, you can easily make more gold off of that and one of those choices than just Talisman.
Papy Mougeot1 votesI love to play AP traditional supports too and I'm actually sad that so few people play them because they just pick talisman and mikael's every game and then my team have no idea how to play with me.
Penguin Eclipse1 votesBut it isn't a mandatory pick and neither is Mikael's. People just absolutely refuse to change their support builds. You could nerf the talisman and people still won't come back to traditional supports because they are hard set on building suboptimal season 3 builds or running a high damage lane. The idea of running a season 4 build on traditional supports with some AP like Riot fully intended is completely foreign to most.
Papy Mougeot1 votesI think anybody could understand that picking talisman on Ap supports is bad for the reasons I mentioned if my suggestion is applied. Simply because most Ap supports have build in move speed buff (that scale with Ap).
the Anarchit3cht1 votesI'm sorry, but I don't see the problem here? You're giving us nothing but speculation. Where are the facts? The numbers? You have nothing here to validate your claim other than what appears to be a personal distaste.
LordOfTheLeague1 votesI'm not sure that I understand what you want me to say. You think I need to prove that talisman is built more than the 2 others "Support items" ? well here it is if you need that lol. http://www.lolking.net/items/3069®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics 10% talisman average
http://www.lolking.net/items/3092®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics 5% frost queen's claim
http://www.lolking.net/items/3401®ion=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics 3% face of the mountain