Teemo should have a Nearsight instead of a Blind

darkdill··59 votes·29,801 views

Teemo's Blind has always been tough to balance. Depending on who he's up against, the Blind is either oppressive (i.e. against Tryndamere Nasus Udyr XinZhao Trundle Kled ) or it doesn't do anything (i.e. against Lissandra Ryze Vladimir Syndra Annie Singed ). This extends beyond just the laning phase, as Teemo becomes weak if he has to teamfight against multiple ability-users rather than against multiple auto-attackers. It also tends to be inconsistent; for instance, I've heard that it doesn't work against Illaoi's W when she uses it to dash, and that it can stop Azir from ordering his Sand Soldiers to attack.

No other Champion in the game has Blind anymore (removed from Quinn), and Irelia's Disarm seems to be a better version of the CC that works more consistently. This leads me to believe that Riot doesn't like the Blind CC, and probably wish to do away with it.

Now, for the purposes of the topic, imagine that Teemo's Blind was replaced with a Nearsight effect (and that his Q's numbers were adjusted to compensate). Nearsight on Teemo would greatly improve his consistency against varied opponents. Against a Ryze, for instance, he'd be able to stop Ryze from directly targeting him with his spells, but wouldn't be able to totally shut down a Tryndamere anymore.

Nearsight would also give Teemo a big boost to his tactics. Here are a few examples of how a Teemo could use Nearsight.

  • Teemo could stand near the brush in top lane, tag his opponent with Nearsight, and then duck into one of the brushes to activate his passive, making it hard to find him.
  • Teemo could bait his enemy into playing aggressively against him, then Nearsight his lane opponent as his team's jungler approaches, causing his opponent to overextend and die from being ganked.
  • Teemo could Nearsight his enemy and then throw down a mushroom while his enemy can't see. Then he could bait his enemy into said mushroom.

To make it work, I'd change Teemo's Q to a skillshot rather than a direct-target spell, as direct-target Nearsight would be obnoxious. As a skillshot, it'd allow for an increase in range, allowing Teemo to poke divers from outside their engage range, since Teemo's Q won't Blind them anymore.

Nearsight would be a significant change for Teemo, but one I feel would be a good change to make him far more sneaky and less of a strict counterpick or trollpick.

#This is all theoretical, so don't freak out.

76 Comments

gabetheguy16 votes

I'm always in favor of adding more outplay potential to a champion. especially one as braindead as teemo. however, rather than simply changing up the numbers, how about also making it a skillshot? since teemo has enough point and click poke as is.

xDogMeatx4 votes

Teemo isnt braindead he has to do some planning and kiting in advance but... There are tank builds that cover way too many mistakes then u have his slows and blinds which i understand why u say so. He is made to make melee aas hell while he nulls ranged units on q which is his assassin role intended to burst at closeish range.

TwitchInMyPants2 votes

{quoted}

I'm always in favor of adding more outplay potential to a champion. especially one as braindead as teemo. however, rather than simply changing up the numbers, how about also making it a skillshot? since teemo has enough point and click poke as is.

Personally if they did this you'd need to add a dash, attack range, or more speed to his kit. Something to give back to the kit a bit. I barely play Teemo but when I do typically you're depending on either your Blind or your Mushroom Slow. The Blind is often what makes or breaks your matchup based on timing and if minions can block it then Teemo is essentially a sitting duck unless you get close enough for him to land a reliable shot, and the nearsight really isn't good while close. This doesn't really affect Quinn as much given she has a root on E and even if she misses often the AoE can crash some poke damage giving partial reward.

If he's dealing with an Ezreal style skillshot that's single target hitting it will be vital, and I think just a touchup on his reliability in other areas given the uncertainty of the skillshot would be fair. And honestly out of the things I've suggested I'd add some speed. His chasing isn't good and is often why on-hit builds from him feature Frozen Mallet. His kiting is bad as well unless you've got a shroom farm setup, and that takes time given how long it takes to get charges. I think Teemo being a swift, kitey annoyance who gets in and out of combat is part of his identity and more speed to allow him to position better for the new skillshot would be a good touch.

WEREW0LF1 votes

You say he has 'enough as is' you mean his only point and click ability, period. You made it sounds like he has 3 abilities that are point and click. Historically in MOBA that is a very strong ability, like what used tot be tartaric dazzle / stun.
Teemo has sprint, and passive poison.

Honestly people often over look many of the things that make Teemo very oppressive. I dont want to wax on like I am some sort of Teemo god, but people, in general, play him very 1 dimensional.

Most people fully neglect his full kit at what makes him truly scary. His blind is so strong because its pretty much the only thing that has direct damage and disengage potential. Yes he can 'direct damage' with shrooms but this is his only ability that is directed at a single .... Not to mention many items Nerf AOE damage and effects like slows.

Some of the other areas Teemo really shines that people don't even think about....

He has 3 passives. This makes him VERY strong. Again historically in a MOBA any ability you benefit from and you don't have to micro manage is strong (Think Ashe's frost arrows) EVEN more so if this ability takes no mana or energy.

  • Ambush burst steroid on his attack when he comes out of hiding
  • His camouflage
  • His poison, while an ability, is free of charge, costs no mana and does damage

He is one of the only champions that can both

  • Get farm while in base or no where near the mushrooms

  • Get an assist while in the base or not in a lane (yes others have globals but.... )

  • Get kills while in base or not near kill

  • His sprint to return to lane and chase is super underrated and combined with blind will persist through an engage.

In league, unlike many other MOBA, he gets the XP as well I believe. I used to play goblin techies in dota, they did not get the xp unless nearby.

Teemo is very easy to shut down....

  • Use abilities that don't rely on auto attacks
  • People like yi can Q past/through his blind strike
  • buy an oracles .... it makes his life hell

I play a full AP Teemo and I usually take TP and I can control all 3 lanes. With a Ryli scepter and a mask of torment, I can shroom the middle of the lane about a half wave apart and control the game.

A good Teemo player doesnt even open with blind.

  • You use passive poison to break spell shields
  • You use blind as an auto attack cancel. AA, Blind, AA

Most of the time, that is whats ravaging your HP ....

I guess I am saying there is a WHOLE other level of teemo play and blind is not at all even where its all at. I can get sometimes 5x damage of the second highest via proxy with mushrooms.

To be honest I am surprised they never nerf how many shrooms he can put down. With a low CD you can have like 30 on the map at any time. There really is no limit. Unlike Shaco boxes they last like 3 minutes by default.

In all seriousness I also pay Quinn an if he had near sight he would not stand a chance. People like Yi, Akali, Vi, Irellia, ETC (Anyone that can click to gap clos or get near him) iETC would click him and it would be free kills all day. Seriously, blind is his only disengage.

You have to realize, like Shaco he is anti-meta a big part of his kit is annoying people. That is the whole point. Its like his 4th passive.

If you know how hes played, you can beat him, I beat him all the time when I face him. A Malphite for example wrecks a Teemo. You have granite shield he blinds, so what... you slow him speed up and crush him. On one hand his blind is not overly powerful, on the other he would be dead without it, it has a very specific purpose.

TL:DR Teemo has higher level if play, hes not nearly as OP as people think, if blind is whats giving you a headache you are still facing noobs playing him. He can be shut down pretty easy. What makes him good is his whole kit, esp. passives.

gabetheguy1 votes

nobody said he was OP. just that he's braindead.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

I remember you bringing this up before, and I remember the sheer amount of Teemo players telling you the same thing. This will kill Teemo top, where a majority of Top Laners have a Dash. Teemo loses any form of self defense, if any of these Melee's jump on top of him, and start whapping away with their autos. Teemo loses any utility in helping out a team member, if they're getting wacked away by folk in melee, with the same change.

This change would only work, if you managed to move Teemo out of Top, and down into Botlane, where it'd act as much more sufficient defense against Ranged champions. But we all know what happened last time someone got moved Top to Bot.

If you really wanted to get creative, and make some coders angry at the same time, make it so Teemo becomes invisible to only the person he blinds.

Nalisai1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=cEb5nlAr,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-26T04:01:26.659+0000) But we all know what happened last time someone got moved Top to Bot.

Umm...which champion are you referring to, because last I checked it tends to be the other way around? See Quinn, Varus, Jhin, Leona, Thresh, Teemo, Nautilus, Urgot ... all bottom laners who can and do play top. Only one I can really think of is Sion support, but that's not unusual given the recent tank buffs that have happened. If you remember, Amumu used to be a support, Nunu, Syndra, Orianna...most moving tends to be LEAVING bot lane for elsewhere rather than shifting down (unless you're talking about mages like Morgana, Zyra, Lux.............).

IcyPepper1 votes

I think he's referring to Mordekaiser maybe?

Press Q Win3 votes

Do the same as Quinn. They removed the blind and added nearsight. It doesn't counter autoattacker as it used to be but now it's useful against everyone.

Done252 votes

This has been suggested for years. It would really go a long way towards making him more balanced too. :(

I wouldn't mind if they made his Q a skill shot either.

xDogMeatx2 votes

Turn blind duration by 3 sec flat increase (nerf) cd by 7 sec decrease dmg by 30 on all levels. Best way to balance it teemo main btw u wanted balance in some right. I believe change these to equal a good enough lane to not make it unfun for nasus players. Thats a 15 cd on q on beginning which means a nasus player can somewhat play the lol game without hardcore suffering. Which i believe causes toxic behavior due to 'i cant play lol due to teemo' i played nasus vs teemo i know the pain of what they suffer. If theres a better way u can ask me.

VoidStaresBack6 votes

This actually exacerbates the problem mentioned in the OP. By increasing the length of the blind but decreasing its damage, you make him even more oppressive to auto-attack based toplaners (who will be shut down for longer) and even less effective against ability based ones (since they don't auto and the reduced damage means his trades are worse).

xDogMeatx2 votes

Actually its more balanced in a way bait out the blind then there u go 12 secs on farming back to u (minus the blind time) nasus can q 2 times i think (havent played him much) hes meant to make hell on top laners if u increase his cd then winning is more realistic idk why u would want to try to fight a ranged lane bully head on so early meant to raise hard hell on 1v1 setting early. In other words u will farm better if u manage that higher cd.

I am Razgriz1 votes

I vehemently disagree with your ideas.

SirLapse1 votes

If you weren't aware, the Pantheon matchup would be entirely skewed to the Pantheon's favor because Teemo wouldn't be able to walk up like...at all. Many people haven't played Teemo so I know they don't understand all the matchups, but things like Ornn and Pantheon completely destroy the Teemo player for misplaying even once or having a bad wave.

xDogMeatx1 votes

{quoted}

If you weren't aware, the Pantheon matchup would be entirely skewed to the Pantheon's favor because Teemo wouldn't be able to walk up like...at all. Many people haven't played Teemo so I know they don't understand all the matchups, but things like Ornn and Pantheon completely destroy the Teemo player for misplaying even once or having a bad wave.

doesnt teemo outrange pantheon in his q attack?

Atlªs2 votes

Blind doesn't anything against Ryze because it negates auto attacks, which Ryze doesn't do. Why does it have to negate spells? That would be too powerful. Additionally, if you're picking Teemo into a non-auto based champion, then you're asking to lose.

darkdill1 votes

The thing is that it doesn't negate spells. It just means that Ryze wouldn't be able to direct-target you unless he's in melee range. Skillshot users could still fire blindly at Teemo and might still hit him if he doesn't dodge.

And what about if you pick Teemo before the enemy top laner? Not everybody does ranked draft, you know.

I am Razgriz1 votes

Even in Ranked Draft you could FP Teemo. I see it done all the time.

Kaisa is Hot2 votes

As someone who is an AVID HATER of nearsight because of bullshit champs like Quinn Graves Nocturne , it just shows how abusive this mechanic is, it literally gives you no chance to outplay the person that applied it to you while they wreck your healthbar

doiminat0r36002 votes

In lots of these scenarios, it's the only way to counter them. You are only blind for a small period of time. If you're alone, you're going to have a bad time, but with allies who can target teemo, it's not an issue.

The Trent2 votes

I personally don't think that Teemo is really in a good spot as a champion. If we are going to change his blind, I think this is a good opportunity to just add more to him in general. Right now he's just another on hitter that doesn't really have anything special except for mushrooms that don't do much after you hit an elo where people use pinks and scanners.

darkdill3 votes

Hmm, I have one thought about that: What if Teemo can throw his mushrooms directly at an enemy and, if it hits before landing, it explodes immediately?

I mean, it'd be akin to chucking a mortar shell like a grenade.

WEREW0LF1 votes

again not trying to sound like some kind of teemo god but I play him VERY differently than most. I honestly think I play him more 'correct' than many people, meaning I use his full kit, usually get like 5x next highes damage to team, and can play headgames, control all 3 lanes with Ryli /Mask and TP ... . First of all I play him full AP and if you hit a shroom at level 6 it will take over half health. The people you are playing play him very 1 dimensional, and not dynamic at all. Yes the best way to shut him down is oracles lense... and he can be shut down.... another 'on hitter' if my core scepter and mask are on you its a passive poison / mask burn / ryli slow .... and if I am rolling with comet or even electrocute it hurts lol. I dont open with blind either its AA,Blind for cancel, AA ...

SanKakU2 votes

I think Teemo is a great and doesn't need any changes.

Nalisai1 votes
  1. Pretty sure Quinn still has blind on her Q.
  2. Would love to see Teemo's blind affect champions just like Graves's smokebomb rather than Nocturne's ult or just a flat 'all auto/physical attacks miss'.
darkdill3 votes

Quinn's Q doesn't have a Blind, but it Disarms non-Champion targets.

james2k1 votes

The latter 3 almost never appear top anyway, so this would just amount to a huge nerf.

darkdill1 votes

The point is that Blind is weak against mages, but oppressive against AA-reliant Champions.

james2k1 votes

And my point is that mages rarely ever appear top anyway. Most champs up top are melee, so you'd be hugely weakening him against the majority of other top laners just to give him a buff against champs he's rarely up against. So overall, a clear nerf.

darkdill2 votes

My brother uses Lissandra top all the time, and he recently made D5.

Besides, the blind's effectiveness extends beyond just laning. If Teemo ends up against a team which relies more on abilities rather than auto-attacks, his blind becomes bad. And, as I said before, Nearsight gives him more tactics and sneaky plays, rather than just a CC-check.

Śhunpo1 votes

Nearsight is an awful mechanic. If he does get it his Q would need to be a skillshot.

darkdill2 votes

I'd be okay with that. Changing Q to a skillshot allows for a range increase, which Teemo could use to compensate against divers by staying out of their reach.

doiminat0r36001 votes

I don't think this is necessary.

Not only does it not fit the idea of the ability (it's a chemical blowdart that goes into your bloodstream and makes your vision wobbly) but it is also bad for the game. The only counter to someone like Tryndamere when he is enraged is CC or blind.

Considering it is the only blind in the game, there's no reason this should go away.

Perhaps, it should have a screen effect that makes your screen wobbly or gives nearsighted as well as preventing auto attacks.

The best part about Teemo's kit is being able to shut down AA champions. There's no reason to take that away from him. He's already pretty useless once the enemy team gets control wards or red trinket out there.

darkdill2 votes

Wobbly vision is something Riot will never do because it could cause health problems IRL.

LatetotheRace1 votes

Please no... vision impairment is toxic as hell with Quinn already. The main issue is how much damage he can really dish out regardless of how he builds. If his overall harass was weaker, I.E. his Q + 1 auto, then he'd be a lot more balanced. He should have about a 40% reduction on his 1 shot harass but his all-in sustained attack should remain the same as it is. Make him less of a bully, while maintaining his ability to win lanes.

darkdill1 votes

Change his poison to be able to stack (and adjust accordingly), so that if he really wants it to do significant damage he needs to land multiple attacks on his target.

Frantic childe1 votes

just pick akali and smash teemo XD

Lovelle1 votes

A point+click nearsight is too strong. Just look at how strong Quinn's is despite being a skillshot and blocked by minions/front-liners. It is far stronger and more annoying to deal with than blind. If he does get this change, then it should be a skillshot ability, like Quinn's Q.

Inkling Commando1 votes

I think a mod rigged this to make it so no one can hate this idea.

darkdill1 votes

You do realize that Gameplay+ doesn't permit downvotes, right?

Hammermancer1 votes

how about instead of buffing the ability vs champions we maximize the 'god damnit teemo' by making it work on towers

teemo tower diver

i piss in jugs1 votes

There should be a Teemo appreciation day, just like I have suggest a minion appreciation day, where all the little minions spawn as Teemos. It would be hilarious. Everyone would have perfect CS.

5050BS1 votes

Thing I hate is that the enemy can still see and still can attack with activate spells. If they are blind Irelia should not be able to Q if she cant auto attack.

Panth should not be able to Q or W if he is Blind.

Only AOE attacks should work or skill shots.

Also the enemies screen should go dark like when Graves uses his Cloud.

CHIKILAHANDE1 votes

I mean can't one just qss item 3140 the nearsight making it almost pointless, when if you were to be tower dived by a KayleKayle or Tryndamere Tryndamere you could just blind them, and punish them for not being able to 1 tap you (tryndamere) or laser you (kayle)item 3115.

darkdill1 votes

Wouldn't QSS also remove the Blind?

ORB1TS1 votes

I'm all for this! It also wouldn't be as boring for another player that's playing a melee champ finally making trades more possible.

Daddy Ants1 votes

A point and click nearsight on such a low cooldown?

Least make it a skillshot like Quinn's.

darkdill1 votes

That'd be the direction I'd go in. Make it a skillshot so Teemo can poke at long range, as otherwise he can't defend himself against divers without his Blind. Once they've jumped on him, a Nearsight won't help that much, so having a long-ranged skillshot would allow him to poke divers from outside their engage range. Conversely, it'd also give the enemy the ability to dodge his Q.

Quil Evrything1 votes

horrible. . it would make him autolose vs darius or nasus that aint right

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