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who thought this was a good idea

Nunya Bezwacks··12 votes·1,064 views

1 - "UPDATE: We froze the pushing changes below at the last minute, so these won't be going live in 5.22. They'll make their official debut in 5.23!

Comboing with the turret changes above, minions now get stronger to help the winning team press their advantage and close out the game MINION DAMAGE BONUS If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions deal 10% bonus damage to enemy minions. If you've taken cumulatively more turrets than the enemy team, damage is further increased by 10% for each turret you have over your opponents. ENRAGE If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane deal 90% more damage to enemy minions MINION DAMAGE REDUCTION If your team's average level is higher than the enemy's, your minions take less damage from enemy minions equal to (tower differential x level differential) + 1. This number can't fall below 1. IRONCLAD If your team's average level is at least 3 higher than the enemy's and you've taken 2 or more towers in a given lane, your minions in that lane take 7 less damage from enemy minions" - why is this a thing? why do they do double damage if your already losing? im all not making it so you lose a game despite a lead only because one wave pushed to top inhib and the enemy team teleported up turning the game around all because your waves didn't want to do damage for 10 minutes but double damage? 10% would have been fine it would still push but at least you had time to fight it back.

2 - "Turret mechanics REMOVEDSHIELDS OFFLINE Inner towers no longer shield nearby players from damage THIS IS A MAGE BUFF Basic attacks against turrets deal damage equal to base attack damage + either 1.0 bonus attack damage or 0.4 ability power ⇒ 0.5 ability power, whichever is higher Turret resistances BASE ARMOR AND MAGIC RESIST 100 ⇒ 0 NEWWE CAN REBUILD Turrets gain 2 armor and magic resist per minute, up to a maximum of 30. Outer towers begin scaling at game-start, Inner towers at 15 minutes, Inhibitor & Nexus towers at 30 minutes. REINFORCED ARMOR Turrets gain 300 ⇒ 200 armor and magic resist if no minions are nearby Turret health OUTER TOWER HEALTH 2000 ⇒ 3500 INNER TOWER HEALTH 2500 ⇒ 3500 INHIBITOR TOWER HEALTH 2800 ⇒ 4000 NEXUS TOWER HEALTH 3000 ⇒ 4000 Turret gold rewards OUTER TOWER LOCAL GOLD 150 gold ⇒ 220 gold INNER TOWER LOCAL GOLD 100 gold ⇒ 250 gold" - towers are now made of Papier-mâché which means now the minion waves who give you no room to breath can kill a tower for the enemy team giving the minions even more damage.

and to top it off you buffed every champion who builds adc meaning the now armorless towers just crumble by the slightest breeze People thought this patch was bad wait til next patch when this all becomes a factor WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA

12 Comments

qetzel5 votes

After 15 minutes outer turrets have an effective 550 health extra After 30 and 45 minutes, inner and inhibitor turrets respectively have about 500 effective health less. That is what? Two attacks? Late game there is no difference. This is taking into account the armour changes. In fact, the typical ADC build now has less AD but more crit, doesn't it? It makes them worse at taking towers.

Now, thinking about the minion changes. Minions have about 30 damage mid game. That 10% bonus is 3 damage. Big change. What this will do is stop the waves from freezing on the winning side of the map. It gives you safer farming. This is an anti-snowball change.

The 7 damage reduction is a little bit more. It gives a difference of about 10 damage per attack, which is a difference. It may be big enough to be in favour of the winning team, but I don't know. It might just compound the earlier effect making farming safer.

And that 90% bonus. Fuck man... Oh wait

3 levels higher

Actually, this is fine. Do you seriously think you will come back from a three level deficit across the board? You won't. This change does one thing, really. It ends games with a long term AFK (I can't see Riot not considering this)

Put these numbers in teal terms. Here is a list of experience required to level and the number of minion waves required to do so.

Level -------- Experience to next Level -------- Number of minion waves required
2 ------------280 -------------------------------------------- 2 3 ------------380 -------------------------------------------- 3 4 ------------480 --------------------------------------------4 5 ------------580 -------------------------------------------- 6 6 ------------680 --------------------------------------------9 7 ------------780 -------------------------------------------- 11 8 ------------880 -------------------------------------------- 14 9 ------------980 -------------------------------------------- 18 10 ------------1080 -------------------------------------------- 21 11 ------------1180 -------------------------------------------- 25 12 ------------1280 -------------------------------------------- 30 13 ------------1380 -------------------------------------------- 34 14 ------------1480 -------------------------------------------- 39 15 ------------1580 -------------------------------------------- 45 16 ------------1680 -------------------------------------------- 50 17 ------------1780 -------------------------------------------- 56 18 ------------1880 -------------------------------------------- 62

The table formatting sucks, but consider the difference in experience between a team at level 10 against one at level 13. That is at minimum 10 minion waves worth of experience. Per person. Obviously, this is lowered if there is shared experience, but still. The only way that happens is if you have lost anyway. Oh! New thought! With the other minion changes there is no way in hell this is happening. How can you get waves and waves of experience if you have to extend further to get it?

In summary, the tower changes are a net nerf and ADCs aren't any better at taking turrets. This excludes the gold earnt from early snowballing, but minion changes should counteract this.

The reason the game is so snowbally at the moment is because the minion changes have not gone through.

Nunya Bezwacks1 votes

you're entire wall is based around "there is no change at 40 minutes" which the game rarely if ever actually even reaches now and its not just 3 levels ahead its having two towers down in one lane when the enemy has none which happens a lot now since its impossible to push once the enemy team gets a lead. let me tell you what you aren't smart enough to understand.

If you lose both mid towers the other lanes are going to push down your bot and top towers, if you manage to push the enemy off mid then you have to push those lanes off your inhibs if you don't they will take the inhib towers in those lanes meaning even if you push mid and reduce the tower difference in mid to 1 or possible even it out you will still be down two towers in other lanes if you try pushing the other lanes your team will die mid when theirs comes back or you will still be behind due to a tower disadvantage which means the enemy minions will still be auto pushing and with only 10% damage they will still be out damaging your minions with a regular wave so they will still be pushing just not even close to as fast. which will cause monster waves which since you don't think, you probably don't know what that is.

A monster wave is what happens when multiple waves start stacking and pushing, before it was someone on your team killed a few minions in one lane like bottom for example and let the rest push to form a monster wave of 12-18 minions at which point their team would begin pressuring top,mid,or baron making the enemy team choose either lose a tower to the wave or send one person back and risk either losing baron,another tower,or even a fight. With the enemy minions dealing 10% extra damage this will happen without their teams influence, meaning the tower will drop in other lanes giving the enemy the same advantage you worked so hard to get rid except this time they don't even have to do it themselves or even better for them they will get the advantage without trying. if you try pushing top and bot to far you will just die making their team snowball harder. there is no way around the problem except never falling behind to begin with and since one team has to at some point the game just becomes more one sided. people say its stompy now all this change is going to do is make it worse

qetzel2 votes

I'm going to have to defend myself here.

[{quoted}](name=Nunya Bezwacks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zyEWZJhy,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-16T04:11:50.648+0000)

you're entire wall is based around "there is no change at 40 minutes" which the game rarely if ever actually even reaches now and its not just 3 levels ahead its having two towers down in one lane when the enemy has none which happens a lot now since its impossible to push once the enemy team gets a lead.

It isn't Just the first paragraph - the part about towers. The rest of the comment doesn't mention early or late at all.

let me tell you what you aren't smart enough to understand. since you don't think, you probably don't know what that is.

You could try being a little bit respectful. It helps to get your viewpoint across. A lot of people shut down when people are rude to them and refuse to accept any new ideas.

I do know what a monster wave is. Easy to freeze. Easy to catch up with. In normal play side wave control is important because it lets you take neutral or cross map objectives with ease. The key word is control. If the waves are always pushing then you have no control over it. The waves of the losing team will not push themselves out. Monster waves need time to form. If you don't start them on your side of the map you don't get them. They need to be held up by several waves of enemy minions to be large enough to be useful. If the wave is always on the losing teams side (which it should be with the changes) then the only way a monster wave can go is towards the winner. It is the only way it can build up (The minion changes will affect how this works - you may have to take an extra minion down to half health before you get your wave).

So no. This change could easily stop giant minion waves from forming.

Nunya Bezwacks1 votes

if you actually knew what you were talking about i would waste more time reading that or give you respect but since you don't im not going to do either.

Cynikul4 votes

Ok, you explained why its different, but you didn't explain why it was bad. Are you sure this isn't something you just don't like, in contrast to something thats just different?

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

Ok, you explained why its different, but you didn't explain why it was bad. Are you sure this isn't something you just don't like, in contrast to something thats just different?

the problem is it is accelerating the game without making players have to use an advantage wisely. In other words it is farther lowering the skill of the game and making combacks far less likely.

Cynikul3 votes

Farther determines physical distance, further determines metaphorical. I think you mean it furthers the gap you're explaining. You see, that would be a valid reason. However, as waves push in, I think it gives more opportunities to farm back in the game, while giving the team with the damage bonus minions a chance to capitalize on wave pressure

Nunya Bezwacks2 votes

actually i stated exactly why its bad.

Cynikul4 votes

No, you literally did not explain why it was "bad". You stated a few things that you "thought" it did with little to no evidence, and even then all you said "why did you do this" or "who thought of this" etc. Those are not reasons why things are bad. Reasons why things are bad are different.

Say if they changed the forumula for doughnuts, I could say " I think they changed how much flour they put in the recipe, WHO THOUGHT OF THIS?" thats not a reason why somethings bad. Something like

"I think by adding more flour they changed the taste, making the doughnuts more bitter"

Do you understand the difference?

Nunya Bezwacks1 votes

No kid you're just not smart enough to actually read. either that or your true bronze

HexaDecimel2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nunya Bezwacks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zyEWZJhy,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-16T04:12:49.681+0000)

No kid you're just not smart enough to actually read. either that or your true bronze

you're

In my experience, the people who call others "kid" over chat are often kids themselves.

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