Ori ball should not be ultable on team mates or have VERY low range

Zelnick·Aug 4, 2016·2 votes·1,224 views

After 1000 games with and/against/as ori, I can say with 100% certainty as an indisputable fact that it's pretty lame when you're in like platinum/diamond elo and a skilless ori ball decides every time fight, nothing you can do about it, it doesn't require skill. There's multiple reasons why: The more damage someone does, the more danger they should have to put themselves in: aka, veigar, zed, leblanc. Ori is a very high damage champ, so if ori skillessly puts it around a tank with cc, she's in zero danger whatsoever, it's always guaranteed to hit and get away with her at full health seeing as how it can, and your team always has to group to protect against a 5-man siege. Imagine if veigar could ult you from 2400 units away, wouldn't you think that needs a nerf? Tanks shouldn't be doing that much damage. Since it's a tank who has the ball, it's the tank that's actually delivering the damage, but a tank shouldn't be able to burst that much if they are committed to defensive items. Ori is the one with the insane ap, only ori should be dealing the damage.

39 Comments

CrazFight Aug 4, 20169 votes

Like.... I don't want to comment on how flawed this post is , so just take my -1.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't want to comment

Cause you can't, obviously you haven't played 1000 games with/against her like me. If they can take away Azir's knockup they can reduce the range of a skilless ability.

Daeva of DestinyAug 4, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I don't want to comment

Cause you can't, obviously you haven't played 1000 games with/against her like me. If they can take away Azir's knockup they can reduce the range of a skilless ability.

wait skilless? Have we not seen all the fail ori ultis?

Lord DusteonAug 4, 20166 votes

Except Orianna's damage is low compared to most other mages and her range even with her ball is still pretty low.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-04T04:59:08.970+0000)

Except Orianna's damage is low

That's one of the most profoundly inaccurate statements I've ever seen in my entire life. Plenty of statistical evidence to prove you wrong. Come late game she does more damage than a fed veigar (speaking as a veigar player).

ZephyrDrakeAug 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Plenty of statistical evidence to prove you wrong.

care to show the evidence then?

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

care to show the evidence then?

League stats: with 540 ap full build with rabadons Her ult does 678 + 154 from luden's + 628 from dissonance is a sub total of 1460 applied to what is at least 3 players (since they group to defend turret) is 4380 damage the enemy team takes in 1 second for a dps of 4380 per second (+ another 154 x 4 from luden's)

Veigar: let's assume a full veigar build with rabadons and abyss and void and morello build and zhonyas to be safe, at 540 ap he deals 540 from Q + 840 from W + 1325 from R (doesn't matter if a person goes below 0 health) for a subtotal of 2705 to a single target over a period of at least 1.2 seconds, +.5 to get the stun off, and almost always to a single target for a grand total of 2705 damage to the enemy team with a dps of 1591 damage per second.

Clearly Oriana does more damage to the enemy team with her clear aoe and speed advantage. I didn't even have to do any calculations to know ori wins team fights, that's just a novelty for you. And guess what? Unlike veigar, oriana can do alllllll that damage from hundreds and hundreds of units away, losing no health and being completely safe. Imagine if a lux ult did 4380 damage that was as wide as oriana's ult and they didn't need to land their binding to guarantee it hits, you'd want it nerfed.

FizpocalypseAug 4, 20164 votes

{quoted}

League stats: with 540 ap full build with rabadons Her ult does 678 + 154 from luden's + 628 from dissonance is a sub total of 1460 applied to what is at least 3 players (since they group to defend turret) is 4380 damage the enemy team takes in 1 second for a dps of 4380 per second (+ another 154 x 4 from luden's)

Veigar: let's assume a full veigar build with rabadons and abyss and void and morello build and zhonyas to be safe, at 540 ap he deals 540 from Q + 840 from W + 1325 from R (doesn't matter if a person goes below 0 health) for a subtotal of 2705 to a single target over a period of at least 1.2 seconds, +.5 to get the stun off, and almost always to a single target for a grand total of 2705 damage to the enemy team with a dps of 1591 damage per second.

Clearly Oriana does more damage to the enemy team with her clear aoe and speed advantage. I didn't even have to do any calculations to know ori wins team fights, that's just a novelty for you. And guess what? Unlike veigar, oriana can do alllllll that damage from hundreds and hundreds of units away, losing no health and being completely safe. Imagine if a lux ult did 4380 damage that was as wide as oriana's ult and they didn't need to land their binding to guarantee it hits, you'd want it nerfed.

Full build veigar with 540 ap? Maybe if hes full build tank but common now..

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Full build veigar with 540 ap? Maybe if hes full build tank but common now..

My damage is far too generous, you're completely overlooking the fact that all that damage is to a single target. Even if he had 250 stacks or 300, a tank won't take most of that damage and an adc will die far sooner, so the real team damage veigar deals is more around 1800. Just because an adc dies at around 1800 or 2000 health doesn't mean the rest of the damage gets transferred to another opponent, that's why oriana is way more powerful.

FizpocalypseAug 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

My damage is far too generous, you're completely overlooking the fact that all that damage is to a single target. Even if he had 250 stacks or 300, a tank won't take most of that damage and an adc will die far sooner, so the real team damage veigar deals is more around 1800. Just because an adc dies at around 1800 or 2000 health doesn't mean the rest of the damage gets transferred to another opponent.

Doesn't get transferred correct but saying that ori out damages him is completely false. W alone is hitting in the 1000s with Void staff and since both of them deal in nothing but aoe damage why are we even talking about Single target damage? Minus his ulti cause hell half the time you don't even need it

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't get transferred correct but saying that ori out damages him is completely false. W alone is hitting in the 1000s with Void staff and since both of them deal in nothing but aoe damage why are we even talking about Single target damage? Minus his ulti cause hell half the time you don't even need it

Veigar's aoe is smaller than oriana's AND much shorter ranged. Veigar's ult definitely only targets a single person and it's uncommon for multiple people to get hit by his w, maybe we can throw his q in there to hit two people 1/3rd of the time but the time it takes him to walk up and complete the combo is still longer, and he's definitely not safe pulling it off. You definitely 100% for sure almost always need his ult along with q and w, no idea why you'd think otherwise unless he's fed like 15/0, which isn't this case.

FizpocalypseAug 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Veigar's aoe is way smaller than oriana's AND much shorter ranged. Veigar's ult definitely only targets a single person and it's uncommon for multiple people to get hit by his w, maybe we can throw his q in there but the time it takes him to walk up and complete the combo is still longer, and he's definitely not safe pulling it off. You definitely 100% for sure almost always need his ult, no idea why you'd think otherwise unless he's fed like 15/0, which isn't this case.

Don't recall saying he was safer but okay. its even more uncommon to hit a 5-man ori ulti so theres that too tbh the only people you aren't 100-0 with qw combo are tanks which is A-okay a full build veigar def doesn't need his ulti to kill off a squishy

ZephyrDrakeAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

League stats: with 540 ap full build with rabadons Her ult does 678 + 154 from luden's + 628 from dissonance is a sub total of 1460 applied to what is at least 3 players (since they group to defend turret) is 4380 damage the enemy team takes in 1 second for a dps of 4380 per second (+ another 154 x 4 from luden's)

Veigar: let's assume a full veigar build with rabadons and abyss and void and morello build and zhonyas to be safe, at 540 ap he deals 540 from Q + 840 from W + 1325 from R (doesn't matter if a person goes below 0 health) for a subtotal of 2705 to a single target over a period of at least 1.2 seconds, +.5 to get the stun off, and almost always to a single target for a grand total of 2705 damage to the enemy team with a dps of 1591 damage per second.

Clearly Oriana does more damage to the enemy team with her clear aoe and speed advantage. I didn't even have to do any calculations to know ori wins team fights, that's just a novelty for you. And guess what? Unlike veigar, oriana can do alllllll that damage from hundreds and hundreds of units away, losing no health and being completely safe. Imagine if a lux ult did 4380 damage that was as wide as oriana's ult and they didn't need to land their binding to guarantee it hits, you'd want it nerfed.

full build veigar has 540 AP... sorry but what? i have seen Veigar's hit that with their 3rd item that is not full build at all. Please comeback when you actually can use numbers properly

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

full build veigar has 540 AP... sorry but what? i have seen Veigar's hit that with their 3rd item that is not full build at all. Please comeback when you actually can use numbers properly

Even if he had 1000 ap, it wouldn't matter, single target.

ZephyrDrakeAug 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Even if he had 1000 ap, it wouldn't matter, single target.

yeah, more reliable damage. Pretty much Guarantee to have someone from the enemy team dead as opposed to someone dodging the easily dodgeable ult from Ori and then doing nothing after using her speed/slow for damage since all she will have left is Qs... sorry but no, whether it's single target or not Veigar is going to destroy anyone while Orianna has to hope the enemy is that stupid to group so tightly that she can actually land a 5 man ult... Also what single target? the only single target spell that Veigar has is his ult which pretty much can kill any squishy by itself. Once again, when you can actually use numbers properly and actually know the kits of champions you can comeback. I don't care about the highest damage possible that Orianna can make since that comes extremely rarely. The AVERAGE damage that she can make is terrible after using her initial combo since she has no damage after using her combo. Veigar can still annoy you with his Qs and they will deal more damage than Orianna's Q due to Veigar's MUCH high AP numbers

Lord DusteonAug 4, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Plenty of statistical evidence to prove you wrong. Come late game she does more damage than a fed veigar (speaking as a veigar player).

Are you ok?

Orianna: 910 base damage (assuming she lands E and Q, and that Q hits the target without having hit any others), + 220% AP. Veigar: 855-1180 base damage (depending on how low the target he R's is), +235%-310% AP.

Oh look, unless both of them have literally 0 AP Veigar outdamages Orianna. Oh look, Veigar also has infinite AP scaling and often has an extra 150-250 AP from his passive.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-08-04T05:27:25.311+0000)

Are you ok?

Orianna: 910 base damage (assuming she lands E and Q, and that Q hits the target without having hit any others), + 220% AP. Veigar: 855-1180 base damage (depending on how low the target he R's is), +235%-310% AP.

Oh look, unless both of them have literally 0 AP Veigar outdamages Orianna. Oh look, Veigar also has infinite AP scaling and often has an extra 150-250 AP from his passive.

You poor poor fool, team fights aren't about trading single target spells, that's laning. Team fights are about trading entire champions and damage to entire teams.

Unlike veigar, oriana can do alllllll that damage from hundreds and hundreds of units away, losing no health and being completely safe. Imagine if a lux ult did 4380 damage that was as wide as oriana's ult and they didn't need to land their binding to guarantee it hits, you'd want it nerfed.

Lord DusteonAug 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You poor poor fool, team fights aren't about trading single target spells, that's laning. Team fights are about trading entire champions and damage to entire teams.

League stats: with 540 ap full build with rabadons Her ult does 678 + 154 from luden's + 628 from dissonance is a sub total of 1460 applied to what is at least 3 players (since they group to defend turret) is 4380 damage the enemy team takes in 1 second for a dps of 4380 per second (+ another 154 x 4 from luden's)

Ok, so you assume she hits RW and always hits 3 people. That's fine. I mean, the DPS numbers are shit because Damage Per Second doesn't work well if your only range is 1 second.

Veigar: let's assume a full veigar build with rabadons and abyss and void and morello build and zhonyas to be safe, at 540 ap he deals 540 from Q + 840 from W + 1325 from R (doesn't matter if a person goes below 0 health) for a subtotal of 2705 to a single target over a period of at least 1.2 seconds, +.5 to get the stun off, and almost always to a single target for a grand total of 2705 damage to the enemy team with a dps of 1591 damage per second.

So wait, you assume full build on both... and completely disregard Veigar's AP stacking passive? That's like saying Nasus is shit because he could theoretically get 0 stacks. But hey, let's add in the normal 200 stacks (converted to 270 AP after Rabadon's), then make his W and Q hit more then one person so this isn't completely stacked hmmm?

So, 810 AP, 2 target shit by Q, 3 by W. That way this is actually fair and not you stacking everything in Orianna's favor.

Q, 1432 damage. W, 3330 damage. R, assuming target is half hp (which anything that survived WQ is at or below), 1652 damage. Oh look. Veigar does 6414 damage in the let's say 1.5 second it takes him to do this. Now, again skipping DPS numbers because looking at 1 second during which a burst mage did a combo is frankly ridiculous for finding DPS, we see that Veigar does a shit ton more damage. If you want, we could point out that 200 AP is frankly rather pitiful for a lategame Veigar, or that the build you listed is 580 AP, not 540. But I think you get my point, maybe.

Unlike veigar, oriana can do alllllll that damage from hundreds and hundreds of units away, losing no health and being completely safe. Imagine if a lux ult did 4380 damage that was as wide as oriana's ult and they didn't need to land their binding to guarantee it hits, you'd want it nerfed.

...What? Are you telling me, right now, that you think Veigar needs to go in melee range to do his damage? Because that's the only thing that makes sense for you to say such baldfaced lies. Hint: Veigar's Q and W both outrange Orianna's Q (and Orianna cannot yet force her allies to go exactly where she wants them so she can guarantee E), his E almost equals Ori's Q, and his R is the only short ranged spell he has. Meanwhile Orianna has the amazing benefit of...+325 range maximum if her ball is on an ally for R and W.

But hey, I guess Orianna only having 2 spells at that range, with one being an ultimate on a large cooldown and the other being a medium cooldown spell and her only other CC, well I guess that's just complete safety there. But hey, not Xerath like Ezreal any Karma other Lux champion Morgana has Nidalee good Syndra range Velkoz and Ziggs survivability. Nope, definitely not like half the fucking mage class has amazing range and relatively high safety, gotta complain about the middle of the pack benchmark utility mage.

FizpocalypseAug 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T06:56:44.060+0000)

Ok, so you assume she hits RW and always hits 3 people. That's fine. I mean, the DPS numbers are shit because Damage Per Second doesn't work well if your only range is 1 second.

So wait, you assume full build on both... and completely disregard Veigar's AP stacking passive? That's like saying Nasus is shit because he could theoretically get 0 stacks. But hey, let's add in the normal 200 stacks (converted to 270 AP after Rabadon's), then make his W and Q hit more then one person so this isn't completely stacked hmmm?

So, 810 AP, 2 target shit by Q, 3 by W. That way this is actually fair and not you stacking everything in Orianna's favor.

Q, 1432 damage. W, 3330 damage. R, assuming target is half hp (which anything that survived WQ is at or below), 1652 damage. Oh look. Veigar does 6414 damage in the let's say 1.5 second it takes him to do this. Now, again skipping DPS numbers because looking at 1 second during which a burst mage did a combo is frankly ridiculous for finding DPS, we see that Veigar does a shit ton more damage. If you want, we could point out that 200 AP is frankly rather pitiful for a lategame Veigar, or that the build you listed is 580 AP, not 540. But I think you get my point, maybe.

...What? Are you telling me, right now, that you think Veigar needs to go in melee range to do his damage? Because that's the only thing that makes sense for you to say such baldfaced lies. Hint: Veigar's Q and W both outrange Orianna's Q (and Orianna cannot yet force her allies to go exactly where she wants them so she can guarantee E), his E almost equals Ori's Q, and his R is the only short ranged spell he has. Meanwhile Orianna has the amazing benefit of...+325 range maximum if her ball is on an ally for R and W.

But hey, I guess Orianna only having 2 spells at that range, with one being an ultimate on a large cooldown and the other being a medium cooldown spell and her only other CC, well I guess that's just complete safety there. But hey, not like any other champion has good range and survivability. Nope, definitely not like half the fucking mage class has amazing range and relatively high safety, gotta complain about the middle of the pack benchmark utility mage.

Senpai! summoner 11

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T06:56:44.060+0000)

Ok, so you assume she hits RW and always hits 3 people.

I don't have to assume, it's rare that ori only uses it on one person outside of laning.

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T06:56:44.060+0000)

So wait, you assume full build on both... and completely disregard Veigar's AP stacking passive?

Again, even if he had 1000 ap it wouldn't matter because it's all single target. Either he uses it on a tank who takes minimal damage or has banshees or GA or he uses his combo on an fighter/carry and only does as much damage as their max health.

[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zqxPj0vF,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-04T06:56:44.060+0000) ...What? Are you telling me, right now, that you think Veigar needs to go in melee range to do his damage? Because that's the only thing that makes sense for you to say such baldfaced lies. Hint: Veigar's Q and W both outrange Orianna's Q (and Orianna cannot yet force her allies to go exactly where she wants them so she can guarantee E), his E almost equals Ori's Q, and his R is the only short ranged spell he has. Meanwhile Orianna has the amazing benefit of...+325 range maximum if her ball is on an ally for R and W.

Uh, no, ryze can pick up the ball and teleport 3000 units away and oriana can still ult. That's definitely longer ranged than veigar. Or, malphite can ult in and she can be 1400 units away and she can still ult, or she can just walk away from the ball and be roughly 1100 units away before it automatically disappears back to her.

Lord DusteonAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't have to assume, it's rare that ori only uses it on one person outside of laning.

So you assume the entire enemy team has at least 3 idiots who, upon seeing a tank with the ball on them, clump together?

Again, even if he had 1000 ap it wouldn't matter because it's all single target. Either he uses it on a tank who takes minimal damage or has banshees or GA or he uses his combo on an fighter/carry and only does as much damage as their max health.

Except his E and W, with W being a decent AoE and E being an ultimate tier abiltity. But you know, let's of course say a tank is going to enjoy being hit by a Veigar QW and take half their health anyway.

Uh, no, ryze can pick up the ball and teleport 3000 units away and oriana can still ult. That's definitely longer ranged than veigar. Or, malphite can ult in and she can be 1400 units away and she can still ult, or she can just walk away from the ball and be roughly 1100 units away before it automatically disappears back to her.

No, no she cannot. You already said the important bit here: the ball has a range of 1100, 1250 on allies. The ball would just automatically snap back to her and do a point blank ult in both scenarios you listed.

CerealBoxOfDoomAug 4, 20163 votes

Ori's damage is low but her burst is actually fairly high

But this is not a game of skill, its a strategy game where skills happen to help a lot.

Though in this case I think ori is just cheesing you with this kind of combo. Sure there's nothing 1 or 2 players can do about it but if its two champs working together then there are a lot worse things than the ori combo that could be happening

Kalista Galio

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ori's damage is low but her burst is actually fairly high

But this is not a game of skill, its a strategy game where skills happen to help a lot.

Though in this case I think ori is just cheesing you with this kind of combo. Sure there's nothing 1 or 2 players can do about it but if its two champs working together then there are a lot worse things than the ori combo that could be happening

In almost all cases a pro player uses flash to deliver the ball, it's impossible to react to. The only time there would be a remote chance is if vayne or lee sin or tristana (were coincidentally picked) and they had their knockback ability buffered on the tank who delivered the ball and didn't flash.

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

It's called CC. If you know Ori and how she operates, then most mid laners and supports will know how to counter the ball.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's called CC. If you know Ori and how she operates, then most mid laners and supports will know how to counter the ball.

It's actually aoe that wins the team fights with ori, and like I said, flash isn't counterable and there is no way to stop a malphite (UNSTOPPABLE force is the name of his ult) or a flashing alistar or a flashing tank of any kind of cc, it's a guaranteed team-fight win tactic.

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

Tsk tsk...how sad you think that....

It's funny how I can beat an ori/tank combo with well timed CC.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Tsk tsk...how sad you think that....

It's funny how I can beat an ori/tank combo with well timed CC.

How sad that you think you know what you're talking about. Yet even in silver elo people don't mess up the actual combo very often, they simply forget to flash or buffer an ability.

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

I actually know what I am talking about... I typically play support and am usually either Braum, Bard, or Sejuani and have utilized them all against that combo. Bard, especially, can ruin the Ori combo with his ult. Braun's ult can cause problems and so can Sejuani's.

You just have to know how to play around the possibility of that combo in a match.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Bard, especially, can ruin the Ori combo with his ult.

That does not happen when people are playing ranked in high elo, it's too slow. If you aren't pulling off the combo, you either didn't buffer or didn't flash, that's the only requirement for it to work. Sej would easily be able to do it if she ulted., no doubt about it. It's a flawless combo that has no counter, people can't do anything if they're stunned.

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

Oh god, not the Kalista/Galio ult combo

Anything but that....

CerealBoxOfDoomAug 4, 20161 votes

kay...

Caitlyn Teemo

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

That's almost as Bad as a good ole Kalista/Illaoi ult combo

Daeva of DestinyAug 4, 20161 votes

What even is logic? The metaphysical properties of this is out of whack, and the literal. I dont know what I am talking about, but I know what you think about the Ori ulti is d-u-m-b dumb

BeldairAug 4, 20161 votes

As an Ori support and mid player, She has less Ap dmg to a target than Veigar.

Her ball range is not all that far...Veigar has much higher ap scaling.

Orianna is more of a caster that likes to help her team from behind something beefy....that's just her cheese mechanic..

Other Orianna's will go full skilled ham on you and make you wonder how an Ori can be that good against a supposedly OP team comp.

CalabokAug 4, 20161 votes

Oriana issue? Not as bad as Yasuo slide and windwell baloney

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Oriana issue? Not as bad as Yasuo slide and windwell baloney

I don't have an issue with yasuo so much because he literally has to be at point blank range when he's ulting.

ZapMyHeartAug 4, 20161 votes

So the OP said he played 1k game with/against Orianna, but his player stats indicated that he never even played her once in ranked nor is she in his top 5 most played...awkward.

ZelnickAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So the OP said he played 1k game with/against Orianna, but his player stats indicated that he never even played her once in ranked nor is she in his top 5 most played...awkward.

Lolsummonerinfo says otherwise. Also, I never claimed she was one of my top 5 champs, that's just a shameless strawman.

ZapMyHeartAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lolsummonerinfo says otherwise. Also, I never claimed she was one of my top 5 champs, that's just a shameless strawman.

Lolking says otherwise.

Considering that you mentioned you played 1k games with/against/as Orianna, for you to make a post stating that she should be changed, you should have the statistics to back it up, no?

*If you played Orianna as a main for that many games, then your post is just silly because you should know better.

*If you played with an Orianna on your team with that many games, then you should recognize how team dependent she is.

*If you are getting wrecked by Orianna by that many games, then your post is simply QQ and your team need to stop bunching together.

Something smells and it ain't Fizz.