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@Riot: I always considered Cassiopeia as THE Poison champion. Therefore, I do NOT like her rework.

5G8Nri0B54··17 votes·1,636 views

Cassiopeia

Long story short, you're overly-favouring Cassiopeia's E, making her Q and W completely pointless outside of a little bit of utility and letting her spam her E even more.

Quite frankly, I hate that more than anything else.

Cassiopeia was the first champion I ever bought, and it was purely because she was THE poisonous champion, not Teemo whose identity is to just be a prick. Cassiopeia is poison-themed and I always thought if she got a rework, she'd be even more poisonous.

This rework spits on her identity as a poison champion. It makes her DoT a complete afterthought in favour of the most boring aspect of her entire kit, her E which always felt out of place thematically to begin with. The heck is her E supposed to even be? She's shooting gigantic fangs the size of her torso, whose cooldown is refreshed just because it hit a target that has poison in their body?

Her E has always been the least interesting part of her kit, while all her dialogue and overall theme is clearly centered around eating away at her opponents with her Poison.

I REALLY do not like the direction this rework is going. If you intend for Cassiopeia to be a nuke-spamming champion instead of a what she is thematically presented as, then I demand you create a new champion who fills the Poison niche. One whose main damage source is poison and not as an afterthought.

IDC if this is a "buff". IDC if this makes her more reliable. I just hate that you took away her identity as THE poisonous champion, and did away with it in favour of the weakest aspect of her design.

The worst part of all this is, you guys are only listening to what people have to say in your PBE community. What about those of us who didn't win some PBE lottery? Do we have no say in this?

30 Comments

Grimoire Reaper5 votes

I'm not a fan of the cassiopeia change. Its so stale and boring. If there going to do a rework on a champion, please make it rich, diverse, something to bring to the table. Sigh*

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Would be cool if Cassiopeia became a 100% DoT champion. She'd have zero burst, but she can easily apply constant DoT to her opponent and wear them down.

Linna Excel4 votes

Agreed, this is BS. I think the the worst part of Riot's skill rework team is we can't get any positive consistency or reason out of them.

  1. People hated the skarner rework, because as always, riot hates skarner
  2. Riot tried to screw up lee sin by making him too generic
  3. Riot did keep Sona in a good spot, but no one really asked for her rework and her poke is weaker now.
  4. Most people are saying nidalee is as bad or worse since her rework
  5. Sej's rework didn't really help her out.
  6. Riot's going full rtrd on Soraka's rework because she's the healer: theme > mechanics
  7. Riot's going full rtrd in the other direction on Cass's rework because despite her being the poison champ: mechanics > theme
  8. You've got ghostcrawler saying they've been slapping champs who are leaving their lane too hard while on the other hand certain champs who left lane are still in a slapped state or are getting slapped so hard they'll never leave that lane again.

Right now I've got no clue what the skill rework team is doing or why and it seems like everything they are doing is contradictory to other stuff they are doing and completely random.

I have zero confidence in them at this point.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

dont be too fast you forgot about maokai rework which made him a viable tank (his jungle got gutted but he works at toplane great)

wit hevery little tweak riot does they seem to learn, and next reworks prove to be better and better when it comes to giving the champion a place in the game

sonas rework had its reasons which were clarity, sona players had to see what they do and how effective it is (her poke is stronger btw, at least feels so)

soraka is getting changed cause she is a heal bot, literaly all she has is a heal, riot wants to give her some other tools that would be usefull and make her healing more interesting in use

cassio rework is more of a powershift, riot trashes her early to make her shine late as a magicall carry

the way you look at rework team's reasoning is also invalid if the only reason for rework team would be to rework things just because they dont handle the way riot intended them to, they would be forced to trash 50% of all the champs we have riot reworks something when it does not handle the game as it should (ap yi case, skarner, soraka, nidaele) or when they feel like they can improve something to fit their current design priorities (sona, cassio, maokai )

and there is no guarantee that their changes will work, because once things get into players hands s**t gets real (ad nidaele top, ad malza, duelist zed, madstone, players do crazy stuff and riot is unable to predict them)

**all you do is lash out because her rework does not fit your expectations but trust me after the changes both you and me will play cassio because we like to play cassio **

Spiral Continuum3 votes

I've just recently started playing Cass and she's a blast. Hearing there's a rework that's nerfing her poison, particularly the skill it takes to use your Q, really frustrates me! Why would you do that? She's incredibly fun, and pretty solid. Maybe not in LCS, but that's mostly just because of the meta. If they want to buff her, they should just buff something like maybe her actual poison DOT?

Jennibelle4 votes

They aren't buffing her. They are nerfing her into oblivion for no reason at all. Disguising it with a few updated visuals that are actually worse and less detailed then what she currently has.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Hard to say this is really a nerf...but I still hate it nonetheless.

Cassiopeia is THE poison champion in LoL. Now they're making her poison an afterthought, making her nothing more than a mashy nuke champion.

Rockwell3 votes

They keep reworking champs that don't need reworks, and they come up with really contrived reasons to do so. So annoying.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

psst upvote to keep thread up so Riot atleast sees feedback

What I expected when they say they were tweaking her is to make her MORE poison-oriented. Not gut it entirely and making her so E-reliant for damage.

Linna Excel1 votes

Undodgable spears incoming... ;)

Mo Handels2 votes

I'm pretty sure singed is the very definition of a poison DoT champion.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Singed's archetype is chaos spreading mad-scientist. He doesn't constantly talk about his poison slowly rotting his enemies and he isn't themed after poisonous snakes.

Tsunday1 votes

I don't know what Cassiopeia you're thinking of but 'Don't you find me beautiful?' 'As you wish' 'Surrender to me' 'Feel my embrace' 'Don't be coy' none of that sounds like she's talking about poison. She's talking about power as well as showing a little vanity. There is not one line where she talks about a slow death, where she mentions poison, where she talks about DoT, where she mentions fangs. As such she never actually talks about poison, it's just the fact that she's a snake-- of which not all are poisonous-- that makes you think poison.

Now Singed on the other hand is at least talking about the liquids that will potentially kill you, 'It's nearly time' as the poison is ticking away the end of your health, or 'how'd that taste?' as you follow him, that sounds like it matches the poison thematically. Cassiopeia saying "I'll take care of everything" as she lands her poison on you does not.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Asides from the fact that she's a snake, you have heard her new voice right?

Tsunday1 votes

A) Not all snakes are poisonous

but B) Of course I've heard the new voice over, but you can't claim that her new voice over along with her old kit is what makes her the poison champion archetype. You decided she was the poison champion niche before this voice over, so no she doesn't constantly talk about poison. She barely talks about poison on PBE saying they just put it up, and she doesn't talk about poison on live. For the last 4 years she has not talked about poison, and for the last 4 years it's always been getting the spam on her E that really allowed her to nuke, the poison damage was good, but without her E she wouldn't have been nearly as strong as she was.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

No, of course not all snakes are poisonous, but you know that they are almost universally associated with venom and death. Not all sharks are dangerous predators, but notice how they're practically the animal mascot for horror movies. Roaches are always depicted as dirty and disgusting, despite the fact that they're one of the most hygienic animals in the world. Spiders hold a similar place as snakes, only they also have other thematic elements such as traps and webs to fall back on, but they're generally depicted as venomous despite only a few species truly are.

Snakes are always associated with poison. Even depictions of some of the most well-known non-poisonous snakes often give them the ability to poison just because of their association.

B) That's really grasping at straws now. Riot clearly intends her to be a very poison oriented champion with her new passive, the fact that they gave her so many poisonous abilities, and the very fact that they chose to give her those lines. A large chunk of her damage has always been from her poison harass to eat the enemies away. Her E-spam was there to chunk the enemy down once they decide to get into her E-range. Think a predator softening her prey before finally finishing it off, like most poisonous predators in the world.

PokladnicaZla2 votes

To me be Miasma seems a little odd.

When i first heard about the name i thought she will haveAR/MR shred on it.

ON-topic:I agree with you guys that they are going in the wrong direction with the rework,now that you meantion it,her E does seem a little out of place. Maybe maker her poison do DPS that increases?That would decrease some of her early game damage and also give the opponent a time-frame to react. PS. Im suprised that her R didnt get increased speed/decreased speed-time....

Kldran2 votes

My favorite parts of Cassiopeia's kit was always her two poison skills. A spammable harass that's tricky to land, and a slowing miasma to keep enemies away. I loved that. I stopped playing her though, because I realized that I would never do well, unless I learned to use her E, since that's where her real power lay. I never much liked her ult, even if it was an amusing idea. Though, again, the ult is good for keeping enemies away, her Q and W are good for keeping enemies away, her E requires keeping enemies near... Always felt awkward.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

I share the sentiments. One of the most satisfying thing in LoL for me was seeing the enemy hp slowly tick down from DoT, be it Tristana's E, Swain's Q and E, etc.

Wullf1 votes

That big cunk of damage she was dealing by her poison is in my opinion unhealthy mechanics. When she got some AP she was practically dealing lots of free damage from incredible distance as she did not need to be close to poisoned champ. All she had to do was land the Q (W).

Singed on the other hadn pays for his great poisoning damage by its range.

Changes made this poisoning damage more into utility then DPS. Now she actually has to put herself at risk when instead of being in safe distance. Though her lack of mobility is disturbing.

ıYı3 votes

I really agree that she has absurd damage output "potential" which she cant deal because she is too immobile to deal damage at fights. I dont like the idea of her being more close to deal damage at all.

Changes gives almost no utility that she didnt have. She wont be safer in her E range with %5 more speed and%15 more slow.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/Ah9RyW15-riot-stashu-pls-make-a-thread-about-cassiopeia-in-this-board-too

MakersF3 votes

This is the only thing I agree on. They should give +10/15 MS when she has like 200 stacks of passive.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Changes gives almost no utility that she didnt have. She wont be safer in her E range with %5 more speed and%15 more slow.

but the heal from e can be a changinf cactor with wota she might be able to actualy regain some hp in fight

SnowFall1 votes

when I see Cassiopeia, I see her as the best early ap mid bully and as not so good lategame champ. I dunno what rework will make her into.

ıYı2 votes

This rework will make her a snake, which has to bite to kill someone. But she cant even do a sneak attack.

I dont know what makes new cass' late game better too. % 15 more slow and % 5 movement speed should be godlike stats that i cant understand their value

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

the poison deals less dmg but it rewards more than before and i dont mean spamming your e

5G8Nri0B541 votes

You mean how they marginally increased it's slow and MS buff? Yeah unless those MS/slow start off intensely strong and slowly taper off (like Nasus Wither, Vel's Q, etc.), it'll never be rewarding.

You're literally only poisoning the enemy now just to get more stacks and facilitate more E-spam. It's no longer there for damage despite it being a poison. Her remake should have been the other way around. Her E should be aiding her poison rather than the poison making her E stronger. She is THE poison champion.

You can't make her a champion defined by her poison when you make said poison piss poor and pointless.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

i speak about getting additional % of ap and 30% cdr and the heal on her e her poison is a part of stacking her passive the poison holds realy a lot of cassiopeas power because its mixed with her (quite broken) passive

the poison cant be her main dmg because its clunky in actualy gameplay, you wont know if yoou are actualy outdamaging your opponents and they wont know if they are supposed to run, the game cant be ddecided by random feeling

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Except that's like the complete opposite of what poison should do. Maybe if instead of buffing Cassiopeia it debuffs the enemy permanently(at really tiny increments of course).

The Poison as I mentioned before, has been made irrelevant. It's there literally so that she becomes strong enough to use her E more effectively. Her entire kit revolves around the most poorly designed part of her entire kit.

Also, "clunky" and "won't know if you're actually outdamaging your opponents"? I'm sorry, but you obviously never played Cass or the Swain before. It's not clunky to anyone who pays a little bit of attention. In fact, it's satisfying in a way immediate burst damage can never achieve. That was the entire appeal of Poison damage.

Only people who never played any DoT champions before think you will have trouble gauging whether you're outdamaging their opponents or not.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

there is a diference beetwen dot of swain and poison the main thing is that swain has to stay close to utilize it while high poison dmg allows you to just go away while your enemy melts

i honestly wouldnt mind her relying on her poison, but it seems that riot does

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