Can we please stop resourceless mobility creep?

Fadedpf·Feb 24, 2015·71 votes·4,018 views

All of these champions are highly mobile with no cost at all for it. I can handle when a mobile champion uses mana or an ult to get to me, but people that are mobile for no cost at all and have high damage and dueling power like all of these people do? No thank you...

Do not remove mobility just make it a high risk/ reward. If you want to be mobile it should cost a lot, which also leaves a meaningful window of weakness for your enemy. And stop making new champions with good damage, cc, engage/disengage AND slap in high mobility. Rito pls

95 Comments

FadedpfFeb 24, 201519 votes

Good to know that someone downvoted every comment on this thread. Go resourceless mobility!

ZacsRealmFeb 24, 201516 votes

Rengar and Renekton aren't exactly what I would call mobile, and I definitely wouldn't rank them up there with Akali and LeeSin

Rengar has to be near a bush to use his one, TARGETED dash. The only other time he can use it is with his ult, which gives you a decent warning. "!"

Renekton has two shitty, short-range dashes, and he has to hit the first one to even use the second one anyway.

CaeziumFeb 24, 20156 votes

I think Renekton is one of the few with a somewhat meaningful CD on his dash. (starts at 18 seconds and goes down to 14 seconds, even with CDR it is fairly unlikely to use it again in a fight and as you said they are short range)

Although Gnar isn't particularly mobile either, his dash is a bit better than Renekton's in terms of range, but the CC (and likely damage) followup after he dashes to you is much more brutal. (It's 18sec first rank and goes down to 12sec)

lojicianFeb 24, 20152 votes

Mini gnar gets extra movespeed from his passive, movespeed from his w, a slow to kite you around with, and is ranged. That's why he's so broken in lane. Being ranged makes his mobility more abusive because you're forced to burn your gapcloser to get to him after which he can dash away and kite you stupid hard.

CaeziumFeb 24, 20154 votes

Oh yeah. I forgot about his MS on W.

Yes I know ranged makes mobility 500x worse to face if they know how to kite. Kalista shows that.

DeusVultFeb 25, 20151 votes

Gnar's moblity isn't over the top mobility wise, but being able to bounce away as a squishy harrasser who has a slow, or to be able to gapclose as a mega CC tank, it doesn't make sense balance wise IMO. But he's a new champ and all of their kits have to be overloaded in order to be played

BluePolarizerFeb 24, 201511 votes

Rengar has a HUGE cost to his mobility. He's not even close to being Lee Sin, Zed, Riven, Kalista or Yasuo. Akali can only go in, she can't escape, again not even close to being as bad as those.

Maximum ZileanFeb 24, 20155 votes

I'm fine with mobility being on champions and being in this game. Its a slightly healthy mechanic on its own, but what is bad is there is TO MUCH OF IT. There are the huge offenders as mentioned above who have 0 trade off for it, But there are some champions also in this game that just make you think "Do they really need that dash at all?"

KorthaliaFeb 24, 20155 votes

Akali? Sure, she can dash a lot, but that's mobility tied to her ultimate. And she's simply old design. Gnar being highly mobile and able to kite like a Kalista is stupid indeed. Lee Sin could use not being able to wardjump I guess. Katarina is a close range AoE caster. With 0 utility. And has to be built AP. Let that sink in for a moment. Kalista - I totally agree. Rek'Sai - dude. Her mobility is gated by huge cooldowns and if you manage to let her have a tunnel network, you deserve the hell you get. Super telegraphed. Renekton - how is he even mobility creep. I don't even. Rengar - this guy actually happens to use an ult to get to you most of the time, and his mobility is high risk and high reward. Well... Riven - she was outraging with her mobility, but right now it's not even that much of a problem. Yasuo - sure, but keep in mind his mobility is conditional. Zed - he is on par with Riven's mobility bar his ult return, and even then, he has the lowest burst of all mobile assassins.

I get that manaless mobility is a problem, but most of these champs actually DO pay for it somehow - you just refuse to acknowledge it.

More importantly, why is Nidalee not on your list?

FadedpfFeb 24, 20154 votes

You need to take RESOURCELESS into account like it is on the title.

You act like Katarina is horrible and isnt a hyper carry with insanely stupid roam potential. But oh no she has no CC and is melee!

Reksai is massively mobile with her ult to go from spawn to any tunnel. Her burrow gives her extra movement speed and a tunnel network can take you from camp to camp. If you save her tunnel for a massive gap closer and knock up you can easily kill people with ease. the point of reksai is to go in and explode. She is stupidly mobile.

Renekton can get to your backline with ease with a double dash, he is tanky and does absurd damage if fed. Doesnt always happen but he isnt a bad champion. Focus on his strengths when ahead and youll realize why hes there.

Already explained rengar twice.

Yasuo has unlimited dashes pretty much if there are minions, but also a gap closer ult that gets him right on top of you. Which can be easily used if your team has knock ups. Hence why hes played with a knock up comp.. Dont even mention his low cooldown Q, double crits or armor pen.

And I just did put Nidalee on the list. I forgot, she is horribly busted right now. Manaless jumps every 1.75 seconds and insane excecute. Yeah...

MegamanEXE79Feb 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin could use not being able to wardjump I guess.

This is what I figured, as well. His first W is practically the same thing as Braum's, who can only hop to allied champions or minions (and possibly pets? I forget), or they could use it selfishly for the sustain...Yet Lee is allowed to use his safety jump selfishly for sustain AND added mobility.

If they can justify disallowing Braum from ward jumping with an ability designed to protect his allies, surely the same reasoning can be applied to Lee Sin's ally-protecting ability as well.

Infinite SaughtFeb 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Katarina is a close range AoE caster. With 0 utility. And has to be built AP. Let that sink in for a moment.

Not exactly... Katarina does have some forms of utility, but they're really bad unless she's being chased by someone within melee ranged that doesn't have a targeted or a long range gap close (namely her w). Her shunpo's damage reduction is also mediocre at best (15% for less than 2 seconds at all ranks), and her Death Lotus' grievous wounds is okay due to the fact it's AOE.

N3mO06Feb 24, 20154 votes

Rengar and renekton aren't on the Same boat. Rengar isn't an high mobility creep because ,as akali, he is an all in champ

Spacefight0rFeb 24, 20153 votes

Disagree. Champions being able to engage and disengage makes the game a lot more interesting/engaging both inside the laning phase and out. It's quite boring when two champions have no choice but to slap each other in melee range until someone walks away or dies. Laning against the champions you listed is usually pretty enjoyable. I personally find Gnar to be the most annoying champion in the entire game to lane against, but I also enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of beating a good one.

FadedpfFeb 24, 20157 votes

So you want to just delete anyone with low mobility/engage potential because they dont have free gap closers. Which makes your laning phase boring. Got it

AriafluxFeb 24, 20155 votes

So you want to just delete anyone with low mobility/engage potential because they dont have free gap closers.

Yup, that's why Rumble and Lissandra were never picked in LCS, compared to the pick/ban Riven and Akali.

FadedpfFeb 24, 20153 votes

Theres a difference between being a good team fighter and being insanely mobile. Liss is decently mobile but she cant become a 1v5 god like some of the champions above can. There is a cost to her mobility. Mana, high cool down, slow travel time.

AriafluxFeb 24, 20152 votes

I said nothing in relation to team fighting or 1v5 or cost to mobility.

So you want to just delete anyone with low mobility/engage potential because they dont have free gap closers.

I simply agreed with your statement that Rumble and Lissandra were deleted because they don't have free gap closers.

FadedpfFeb 24, 20153 votes

Rumble and Liss ARE played in the LSC a lot... what are you trying to imply

AriafluxFeb 24, 20151 votes

Really? Oh... I don't know. I guess they weren't deleted then?

BallisticMouseFeb 24, 20151 votes

Basing how OP a champion is on the LCS is a very poor way of judging it. We're talking about the larger chunk of the player base, not the few esports pros.

A champion isn't broken because a certain amount of people do or don't play them. They're broken based on their stats/cost/etc.

AriafluxFeb 24, 20151 votes

Okay.

Lissandra: 13+% pick rate and ~50% win rate Rumble: 4+% pick rate and ~50% win rate

Yasuo: 10+% pick rate and ~46% win rate Akali: 4+% pick rate and ~45% win rate

A champion isn't broken because a certain amount of people do or don't play them. They're broken based on their stats/cost/etc.

Yes, I agree. But please provide a reason why it is broken. What makes it broken? How is this reflected in the game? A million people saying "resourceless mobility is broken!" is not an argument. Listing of properties is not enough. Anything be made to sound overpowered.

BallisticMouseFeb 25, 20151 votes

Lets start with a few basic points most people have made many times over.

Lee Sin has the highest damage done within the fastest time of any AD Jungle while having the most mobility. He does insane damage, as said, while being able to be extremely safe while being extremely mobile.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qaFkoYo4-proving-lee-sin-is-numerically-overpowered-by-comparing-him-to-every-other-warrior-enchant-jungler

Zed is basically the same thing, super safe with super high damage and both being super sustained based on Energy.

You want logic and reason? Get slapped with it, accept it, move on.

AriafluxFeb 25, 20151 votes

Lee Sin has the highest damage done within the fastest time of any AD Jungle while having the most mobility. He does insane damage, as said, while being able to be extremely safe while being extremely mobile.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qaFkoYo4-proving-lee-sin-is-numerically-overpowered-by-comparing-him-to-every-other-warrior-enchant-jungler

Very nicely done, but this basically shows that base and ratio tweaks will bring him in line, no implications on resourceless mobility.

Wasn't the argument that resourceless mobility is by its very nature, broken? How does this comparison show that exactly?

You want logic and reason? Get slapped with it, accept it, move on.

Try again please.

BallisticMouseFeb 26, 20151 votes

Clearly the thread I linked wasn't proving anything about the resourceless part, clearly it wasn't meant to but I guess if I was losing an argument as bad as you I would throw out random statements too.

Resourceless works on many champions well. Such as Kennen, Aatrox, Mordekaiser, Shen and much, much more. They aren't overpowered because they lack a mana pool, they're balanced around it well.

For someone who almost exclusively only plays bot matches you seem to talk a lot about knowing if champions are balanced or not without versing players. You know what players are right? Those things that can actually think and react well, those things that can improve and are already much stronger than bots?

Facts are most of the player base think and know that a few champions, such as Lee Sin and Zed, are just a bit too far ahead of the rest of the bunch and need to be worked on.

http://loldb.gameguyz.com/statistics/0/0/2/0/0/30 - Lee Sin is the most popular champion. He is in one tenth of all games this month. You can't deny he is broken, he is one of the highest mobility champions and that's a large part of it. You say he could use tweaks and be fine with his mobility and you're probably right because that's been 99% of people's points is he can't have both, just like Zed.

Champions are supposed to, according to Riot, pay for their mobility. Champions like Lee Sin and Zed do not. They resourceless, high damage, insane mobility champions and are broken how they are. They need less mobility, less damage or not to be resourceless, maybe a bit of everything in between.

I can see from many of your other boards posts that you hang around just to have logicless, on your side, arguments and try to pick fights and ignore valid points. You talk like you're above anyone and everyone.

Please just stop talking on the boards if you're not going to actually be constructive in anyway.

(Before you pick on it without reason, I use mainly Lee Sin and Zed as examples because they're the most pointed out issues. Quite a few people also think Nidalee and Yasuo have a bit too much)

AriafluxFeb 26, 20151 votes

Clearly the thread I linked wasn't proving anything about the resourceless part, clearly it wasn't meant to but I guess if I was losing an argument as bad as you I would throw out random statements too.

Nice try, I was arguing about OP's statement, specifically this one:

So you want to just delete anyone with low mobility/engage potential because they dont have free gap closers. Which makes your laning phase boring. Got it

Is wrong. I was losing it how? You are the one that went on a tangent and brought in points that are totally irrelevant to mobility.

Resourceless works on many champions well. Such as Kennen, Aatrox, Mordekaiser, Shen and much, much more. They aren't overpowered because they lack a mana pool, they're balanced around it well.

Agreed.

For someone who almost exclusively only plays bot matches you seem to talk a lot about knowing if champions are balanced or not without versing players. You know what players are right? Those things that can actually think and react well, those things that can improve and are already much stronger than bots?

I used to play on Garena since I live in Singapore. Got sick of the company especially after the virus distribution fiasco and now I just play to have fun in bots since I have no friends on NA server and my ping is at least 200.

Also isn't using ranking / match history the worst way to win an argument?

Facts are most of the player base think and know that a few champions, such as Lee Sin and Zed, are just a bit too far ahead of the rest of the bunch and need to be worked on.

I don't disagree.

http://loldb.gameguyz.com/statistics/0/0/2/0/0/30 - Lee Sin is the most popular champion. He is in one tenth of all games this month. You can't deny he is broken, he is one of the highest mobility champions and that's a large part of it. You say he could use tweaks and be fine with his mobility and you're probably right because that's been 99% of people's points is he can't have both, just like Zed.

I didn't say anything about whether Lee Sin is broken. You absolutely could not have known my opinions on whether Lee Sin has too much in his kit from what I said.

Champions are supposed to, according to Riot, pay for their mobility. Champions like Lee Sin and Zed do not. They resourceless, high damage, insane mobility champions and are broken how they are. They need less mobility, less damage or not to be resourceless, maybe a bit of everything in between.

Again, in what universe did I mention anything about Lee Sin or Zed, you can try looking through my post history (again) even. My whole point is that resourceless mobility by itself is not broken, I'm not saying all resourceless mobile champions aren't broken. In fact, I mentioned this specifically in my reply that you ignored:

Wasn't the argument that resourceless mobility is by its very nature, broken? How does this comparison show that exactly.

What I got from your post is that if Lee Sin has low damage, he would be balanced despite having (semi) resourceless mobility, which is something I agree with, so I don't know what the hell you are arguing with me for.

I can see from many of your other boards posts that you hang around just to have logicless, on your side, arguments and try to pick fights and ignore valid points. You talk like you're above anyone and everyone.

Again, what has that got to do with anything? If you disagree with the other things I have said, argue with me on that particular thread. Actually, I would really love if you point out these comments.

Please just stop talking on the boards if you're not going to actually be constructive in anyway.

I don't agree I'm not constructive in any way. I am not constructive in threads that I deemed are not constructive themselves and a blight on the forums, which sadly happens to be most of them on Gameplay and Balance.

BallisticMouseFeb 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Also isn't using ranking / match history the worst way to win an argument?

No, you shouldn't actively involve yourself in PvP based balance when all you play is PvE, the E being bots.

Again, in what universe did I mention anything about Lee Sin or Zed, you can try looking through my post history (again) even. My whole point is that resourceless mobility by itself is not broken, I'm not saying all resourceless mobile champions aren't broken. In fact, I mentioned this specifically in my reply that you ignored:

Few things here. "Resourceless mobility by itself" doesn't exist in the game and won't. Champions kits are balanced as a kit or a whole, not singled out parts of them and then thrown together. Resourceless mobility combined with high damage output isn't a balanced kit.

Even if resourceless mobility did exist by itself, it would still be broken. It makes champions too safe to play.

What I got from your post is that if Lee Sin has low damage, he would be balanced despite having (semi) resourceless mobility, which is something I agree with, so I don't know what the hell you are arguing with me for.

First thing, Lee Sin's mobility is not "semi" resourceless, he is one of (if not) the safest champions to play in the game. You might be able to call it "almost nonexistently-resource dependent" but no matter what you call it it's broken.

Again, what has that got to do with anything? If you disagree with the other things I have said, argue with me on that particular thread. Actually, I would really love if you point out these comments.

My point of that was that all you want to do is argue, not actually prove or disprove a point. You don't have stats, logic, etc standing by your side you do however have your stubborn, thick, bullheadedness and a keyboard.

AriafluxFeb 27, 20151 votes

(Reposting due to bugged forums)

Wow, way to cherry pick my points. I see that you only replied to the few that you can attack me with.

No, you shouldn't actively involve yourself in PvP based balance when all you play is PvE, the E being bots.

I said that I played on Garena for many years. I was here since Season 1. I only play bots on NA. Now please move on to something that actually addresses my arguments.

Few things here. "Resourceless mobility by itself" doesn't exist in the game and won't. Champions kits are balanced as a kit or a whole, not singled out parts of them and then thrown together. Resourceless mobility combined with high damage output isn't a balanced kit.

Even if resourceless mobility did exist by itself, it would still be broken. It makes champions too safe to play.

Contradicting yourself:

Champions are supposed to, according to Riot, pay for their mobility. Champions like Lee Sin and Zed do not. They resourceless, high damage, insane mobility champions and are broken how they are. They need less mobility, less damage or not to be resourceless, maybe a bit of everything in between.

"They need less mobility, less damage or not to be resourceless"

You agreed that a Lee Sin with less damage but keeping his resourceless mobility is fine. Now you are going back on that because I agreed with you. Wow.

First thing, Lee Sin's mobility is not "semi" resourceless, he is one of (if not) the safest champions to play in the game. You might be able to call it "almost nonexistently-resource dependent" but no matter what you call it it's broken.

I put "semi", because strictly speaking he uses energy. I put "(semi)" because I am aware that he's effectively resourceless. Can you not argue about semantics, especially since I'm agreeing to call it "almost nonexistently-resource dependent" (sic).

My point of that was that all you want to do is argue, not actually prove or disprove a point. You don't have stats, logic, etc standing by your side you do however have your stubborn, thick, bullheadedness and a keyboard.

"My point of that was that all you want to do is argue, not actually prove or disprove a point. You don't have stats, logic, etc standing by your side you do however have your stubborn, thick, bullheadedness and a keyboard."

Right back at you.

Now, please show me how resourceless mobility is broken by itself. Meaning, a Lee Sin that does low damage is broken, or how Riven is broken, or how Renekton is broken, or how a Kalista that has limit on Rend stack, and dashes being reduced by slow is broken, because you know, it's still resourceless mobility.

Edit: You might want to take a look at this if you want to argue that Zed is inherently problematic and broken.

BallisticMouseFeb 27, 20151 votes

I picked the points that were even slightly valid in any minor point.
Your arguments are flawed because you don't pvp and are talking about pvp balance.
I'm not contradicting myself (even if means even if your point was valid, even though its not, it still would have problems).
I never went back on anything (if you read closer I actually agreed with the thing you said I just disagreed with)
You say that i'm contradicting myself then say 'he is effectively resourcleess but semi-resourceless'.
You quote me then copy paste it too, okay then. I posted stats proving how strong he is, and talked about mechanics, all you've really said is 'show me more proof than that' without putting up counter proof.
You're asking me to explain why some of the most complained about champions, normally for their mobility or them having high mobility and damage, are broken. Are you joking or do you just have that weak of an argument?
For the edit, I never said Zed was always broken. All mana based champions got their current state changed, now his current state is broken when speaking of balance with theirs. That's how balance works.

With most of your posts being ignored or proven wrong by everyone that was speaking on this thread, I think i'll join them. Enjoy the life of ignorance that you live

AriafluxFeb 27, 20151 votes

Sigh, such unnecessary hostility and name-calling... I guess I was naive to hope you would actually try to be reasonable. Since you don't even seem to make any effort to make a sensible reply, I guess this is where I stop too.

I'm not sure being downvoted in a circlejerking thread really amounts to anything though, but meh, whatever.

Good day to you.

P.S. I'm welcome to discuss this with anyone else who shares his views.

JunkοFeb 24, 20154 votes

You need to learn to understand sarcasm

LankPantsFeb 24, 20153 votes

I really don't think it makes much sense to include Akali , LeeSin , Renekton and Riven on this list since they're super old champs who've never been reworked.

Sure they have resourceless mobility but they're far to old to be contributing to any sort of creep, Akali came out just after the game left closed beta.

JunkοFeb 24, 20154 votes

Aside from Renekton, all of them are actually really big offenders. Akali has 3 targeted gap closers that also reset on kill. Lee Sin has 2 gapclosers just in case he fucks up getting into your backline and kicking your ADC into his team, and if he is so bad he can just flash as a fail safe. Riven is.... well Riven. You can't tell me 4 spammable dashes are not a problem.

LankPantsFeb 24, 20152 votes

The OP was specifically talking about a creep, or the tendency for more recent champs to gain something older champs didn't have. I don't think that a champ who was released in 2010 with no kit reworks should be considered at all relevant to creeps in 2015. (unless they're the ones getting creeped)

All four of the champs I mentioned were released in 2010/2011 and have received no major kit reworks.

AriafluxFeb 24, 20152 votes

Wait... so if the older champions are also super mobile, doesn't that mean there's no creep at all?

LankPantsFeb 24, 20153 votes

Wait... so if the older champions are also super mobile, doesn't that mean there's no creep at all?

No, There is an increase of super mobile champs recently.

The last 5 champs were Rek'sai, Kalista, Azir, Gnar and Braum, all of whom have dashes. Out of the last 15 champions only 2 of them don't have a dash or blink (Jinx, Vel'kos) and 5 of them have super low CD dashes or multiple dashes. (Rek'sai, Kalista, Yasuo, Lucian, Vi)

There certainly is a mobility creep, it's just that champs from 2010/11 aren't the ones causing it.

ReikkenFeb 24, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zn4T1HVZ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-02-24T09:34:12.129+0000)

Aside from Renekton, all of them are actually really big offenders. Akali has 3 targeted gap closers that also reset on kill. Lee Sin has 2 gapclosers just in case he fucks up getting into your backline and kicking your ADC into his team, and if he is so bad he can just flash as a fail safe. Riven is.... well Riven. You can't tell me 4 spammable dashes are not a problem.

Back before the mobility creep, that was Akali's defining trait. The ability to stick to a target like no one else could. That was her identity. Are you trying to say that there should be NO highly mobile champs in the league at all? Laughable.

Yes, it's a problem that now every other champ has just as much mobility (and more versatile mobility, too), but that really doesn't have anything to do with Akali.

ClutchCruxFeb 24, 20153 votes

Why isn't Kalista up there? Just because she has a mana bar doesn't mean she actually uses it cause you know...Q= up to 70 mana W=25 mana for sight and 25 mana might aswell be nothing. E is free cause of that mana return. and having a no CD passive dash is the most delinquent thing I've seen.

list should look like this Aatrox Akali Hecarim Kalista Katarina Kennen LeeSin Lissandra Lucian Nidalee Renekton Rengar Riven Shen Shyvana Tryndamere Yasuo Zed

X FradyFeb 24, 20153 votes

This is Ghostcrawler's stance about mobility creep made in another thread:

Mobility is fun and useful or we wouldnt't keep adding it to kits. The problem is that too often it comes for free just to give a champ a little extra pizzazz. Roles that need a lot of mobility, like assassins, aren't a huge problem, but roles that already bring a lot to the table, especially mages and ADCs, can be. Even with these it doesn't need to be an ironclad rule that they can't dash, but they do need to pay for it elsewhere in their power budget. For these champs, we are less likely to nerf their movement mechanic and more likely to reduce their damage, survivability or control to pay for the mechanic.

ProeliumFeb 24, 20153 votes

Yeah, that post was pretty eye-opening for me.

I'm slowly realizing League isn't the game for me anymore. I get frustrated more and more every game in the last year and often because of stuff like this.

1st HanarSpectreFeb 24, 20152 votes

There are costs for most of those champions. Akali & Yasuo requires enemy units to dash to. Gnar, Katarina, Rengar are in it to win it. While Katarina can get reset to get out, those units are generally stuck where they land most of the time, so if they bite off more than they can chew they will die for it. Kalista is an abomination, this is known and we'll leave it at that. Rek'sai only has great mobility situationally with pre existing tunnels, so it requires her to have previously spent some time in the area and the enemy team to not destroy said tunnel. After her number nerfs, I think Rek'sai is not a problematic champions anymore. Lee Sin is Lee Sin. Renekton again has limits on his mobility, he only gets one small dash if he doesn't hit a unit (Ie running away from ganks).

JunkοFeb 24, 201511 votes

I love your logic. "Akali and Yasuo need enemy units" "Kalista is an abomination". Last time i checked Kalista needed enemy units too.

LankPantsFeb 24, 20152 votes

Kalista has an untargeted jump if there's an enemy in 550 range or on her Q CD. Akali and Yasou can only go in one direction.

I'm not sure how much better it is, but it is better.

JunkοFeb 24, 20152 votes

When you are chasing, Akali and Yasuos mobility is way better, they don't spend 3 item slots to get it, and it's still almost instant (though Yasuo requires minions to chase, but so does Kalista). When you are escaping, Akali can use W over a wall and then just dash to a jungle camp (it gives vision). Whenever Yasuos mobility is better for escaping simply depends if there are nearby minions or not, otherwise Kalista is better.

LankPantsFeb 24, 20154 votes

When you are escaping, Akali can use W over a wall and then just dash to a jungle camp (it gives vision).

I'm going to point out that Kalista can do the same thing without vision or the risk of the camp being down since her Q lets her jump. Also this is harder to do with the ult range nerfs.

JunkοFeb 24, 20152 votes

It's actually really hard to jump over walls as Kalista (except those really thin ones like the Krugs), It always takes me multiple attempts, at which point i'm probably dead anyway. Maybe if you have tier 3 boots, but that's really late game.

Also how is it harder to use Akali R on a jungle camp becuase of R range nerfs? You always get into like 500 range to put the shroud onto the camp anyway, so the fact that the range went from 800 to 700 means nothing

LankPantsFeb 24, 20152 votes

Also how is it harder to use Akali R on a jungle camp becuase of R range nerfs?

Things like jumping the wall to wolves towards the center of the map and dragon jumps (which were hard as hell to do before) aren't possible anymore.

It's actually really hard to jump over walls as Kalista

Jumps with Q work in reverse, you jump further forward.

SpagootGGFeb 24, 20152 votes

not sure wether to ask if ur retarded or plain havent seen kalista

StarlighteFeb 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

All of these champions are highly mobile with no cost at all for it. I can handle when a mobile champion uses mana or an ult to get to me, but people that are mobile for no cost at all and have high damage and dueling power like all of these people do? No thank you...

Do not remove mobility just make it a high risk/ reward. If you want to be mobile it should cost a lot, which also leaves a meaningful window of weakness for your enemy. And stop making new champions with good damage, cc, engage/disengage AND slap in high mobility. Rito pls

B-B-But OP! Riot says that Yasuo and Kalista have "Situational" mobility that IS a resource... By that logic so does Kassadin. His mobility comes at the price of mana.

X FradyFeb 24, 20152 votes

Bard says hi... another "mobility" champ, this time a support