"We removed grievous wounds from MF its hidden power and toxic!"

Fadedpf·11/4/2015, 1:50:29 AM·115 votes·5,376 views

But giving ALL Carries grievous wounds on all of their physical damage is totally fine and balanced! And the best part is it can always be proced! You would think something as strong as this would be a active with a reasonable cooldown for a window of counterplay on both sides but nope! Perma GW for everyone.

Who spiked the donuts and coffee in the Rito break room? I would rather play against a champion that has a massive counter to healing in their kit with the notion that there would be windows for counterplay than having everyone taking a hot steaming dump on healing. As if Warwick Aatrox Fiddlesticks DrMundo Nasus weren't gutted enough/having a hard enough time as it is. The ADC overlords must not have any other counter in the world besides Yasuo and Rengar . They too should be and probably will be gutted for even thinking about combating the almighty ADC.

93 Comments

Eedat11/4/2015, 2:01:31 AM34 votes

RIP Swain Vladimir DrMundo Soraka Fiddlesticks Aatrox Akali Warwick

StoryDuck11/4/2015, 1:55:37 AM9 votes

Yeah, 800g for GW is a bit much. Doubly so as you combine it with Last Whisper! I mean...what ADC isn't going to buy this item? That's...just stupid. Guess I won't be maining Soraka anymore unless they give her something to counteract GW more thoroughly. I also feel really bad for Mundo players. Not Vladimir players though... I hate Vladimir... He should just start with GW applied.

SoMNia11/4/2015, 7:01:56 AM7 votes

Is this still an issue? Okay, here's the thing. No ADC is going to give up 15% bonus damage to get Grievous Wounds unless a heal tank is carrying the enemy team hard. Why? They lost AD and attack speed. Yes, they gained crit, but their overall DPS has been reduced if they're not using Giant Slayer (and because they basically never build health, almost everyone will qualify for the bonus damage). It is much more feasible for a mage to apply GW anyway, since it's less likely to interfere with their damage. So ADCs are mostly out for this one, unless you are directly wrecking their face as Vlad or Aatrox. Not just winning, but totally dominating them. In an other situation, taking Mortal Reminder over Lord Dominik's Regards is a net loss for them in terms of effective damage output. ADCs probably won't even use GW to fight each other because they'll blow each other up no matter what, and it's a loss when fighting anyone else.

Now, bruisers. They're not likely to be able to use Giant Slayer against most people, so they COULD grab Mortal Reminder. But, see, they're not going to give up 300 health, 20% CDR, 15 more AD, Rage passive, and TOTAL armor shred to get bonus armor penetration and GW. And since LW and its upgrades are now bonus armor pen, having Black Cleaver stacks on a target makes Last Whisper next to useless. Bruisers aren't going to build both of them. It's not happening. Executioner's Calling being tied to Last Whisper is what will keep it as a niche item that is only bought to counter someone with high healing when they are getting out of control, just to have a fighting chance. It's not a nail in the coffin of any of those champions you listed. It's going to be fine.

And the reason it's not "hidden power" here is because it's an item everyone has access to. Everyone who builds it knows why, and everyone who fears it knows to look for it. That's pretty different from Miss Fortune just happening to have it when most people played her for other reasons. At the times when it proved useful, most people probably weren't even aware of why she won a fight. Yes, there WERE some people who SPECIFICALLY looked to MF to provide Grievous Wounds against a sustain lane, but those were relatively few, and now all of those people have the option of buying an early Executioner's Calling if they really want to (like if they're against bot lane Kindred, or Cait is getting too many Bloodlust crits). And see, that's going to cost them gold that could be better spent on other things, so if you're forcing them to buy it, you're doing pretty well.

OperationDEEZ111/4/2015, 1:57:08 AM6 votes

Well to be fair if they're building the item with perma GW they're missing out on an extra 15% multiplier towards all damage dealt to enemies who have a higher max hp than they do (Which is almost everyone).

Br4ndon11/4/2015, 8:09:27 AM5 votes

It alone makes Soraka near useless without a lot of AP. She gave up a lot of power in her kit to have her heals. She cant build anything to counter the item.

CoolKnightST11/4/2015, 11:50:54 AM5 votes

The only has to implement one change to it:

#Only gives grievous wounds when the target is below the 40% Health

item 3165 BAM

Keevalroy11/4/2015, 3:01:41 AM4 votes

Riot: HiddenYasuo powerYasuo isYasuo soYasuo toxicYasuo guys.

Me: But...Yasuo is -

Riot: Perfectly fine and has nothing wrong with him whatsoever.

Me: You want to talk about hidden power being toxic but you keep -

Riot: Nah, we hear you loud and clear, Shiv should get 30% crit next season for Yasuo to combat the toxic hidden power still left in the game. Great idea right? Strategic diversity, clarity, meaningful counterplay, buzzwords 'n' shit.

Me: This only accentuates the problem...and that's just with Yasuo. What about all of the problems you're creating with the overhaul of these items and adding unnecessary stats that are tacked on just to pad the New Content list? You're not worried about the hidden power they're going to provide at all?

Riot: Ignores further input and flees to Reddit.


Look, I'm an ADC main and I'm strongly against a lot (actually most) of these PBE changes, but I just want to use another example of how little Riot cares about hidden power. They'll "listen" to feedback, hide behind their newly constructed brick wall and plug their ears because people disagree with their decisions.

Sythriel Draken11/4/2015, 5:09:06 AM4 votes

Varus is sad that his uniqueness is going away with everyone having GW.. although, he doesn't need to build that item and can instead focus on giant slayer and still have grevious :D

JedenVojak11/4/2015, 2:07:24 AM3 votes

I don't know, I think they're much more likely to buy giant slayer - that extra 15% damage is pretty major.

{quoted}

Well to be fair if they're building the item with perma GW they're missing out on an extra 15% multiplier towards all damage dealt to enemies who have a higher max hp than they do (Which is almost everyone).

EDIT: er yeah, this ^

magic pole11/4/2015, 7:26:20 AM3 votes

mundo is strong...hell he just got a nice little buff last patch. (or was it the previous?) I would, however, agree that in his case, something needs to be done. His ult is often integral in his effect on a team fight, and by being so easily able to apply GW (and regardless of his current level of HP), this is a massive nerf to the doctor.

Nasus is still absurd...unless specifically countering him and paying above average attention to him (i.e., camping him), which a good nasus almost necessitates, he can spike HARD mid game and take 2-3 towers easily in a single push. Not to mention if you can stack Q competently, he can single-handedly win team fights mid-game. HIS life stealing is almost oppressive against many top-laners, as it leaves them unable to harass him, while he out scales many of them and can potentially influence the map to a much greater degree.

I agree aatrox needs help. This, however, goes beyond GW.

Warwick im not so sure...he isn't very popular, like most of these champs, but I've seen good ones carry. Take map control by skirmishing and 1v1ing, and also completely shutting down main enemy carries with a good timed ult. However, in this case, i would agree the constant GW will gut him. His life steal_ specifically_ is what makes him powerful, unlike some of these others. He will need compensation I am sure. Perhaps an active that immunizes him to GW? That way there are windows of counter play on both sides.

And lastly Fiddle, ahhh fiddle, my man. As crazy as it sounds, i don't see this change significantly affecting him. Yes, it will absolutely hurt him when he tries to drain tank an ADC, and for that, he may perhaps need help. However, imo, fiddle doesn't rely on his W to win fights and the game. He will almost assassinate squishes with his R E Q W combo. The majority of the time during this scenario, an ADC will be either silenced, feared, or running for their lives. The W is icing on the cake, but often is unnecessary to kill the ADC. They simply cannot withstand his ult without proper peel, something a good fiddle will have planned for and positioned for properly. ... These views are me trying to be unbiased. I regularly play DrMundo Fiddlesticks and Nasus . Additionally, ADC is my worst and least favorite role. Im just not convinced these changes are as cataclysmic as many people are suggesting. Let's wait and see shall we? I understand not every champion receives equal treatment (cough Ahri Cassiopeia Mordekaiser ), but with such a huge roster, it's asking a lot. Not everyone will always be happy, but given that Taric and Poppy are the next reworks, at least i think we can say Riot is trying. It's only a matter of time before the likes ofAatrox Yorick are addressed.

Done2511/4/2015, 9:16:12 AM3 votes

Just so everyone knows, GW currently only reduces SELF HEALING on the pbe. And only by 30%. It is MUCH weaker than the current live version.

Zorae4211/4/2015, 6:47:55 AM2 votes

To anyone saying that by taking the GW item the ADC is missing out on 15% dmg against anyone with more than 500 max hp than them.

You realize that if you're up against a sustain support/ADC that neither of them will have significantly more HP than you and will both lose every trade since you've made it a 2v1? Especially since you get to reduce any lifesteal the opposing ADC bought as well. And since the new meta is looking like ADCs are going to be insane, I think it'd be better to be able to duel/take out ADCs (and any mages who hate themselves enough to try and play early next season) than deal extra dmg to tanks/bruisers.

It also says "whenever you deal physical damage". Haven't tried it, but doesn't that mean Varus and Caitlyn will get it on their Q and champions like Zed will get it on all of their abilities (should they decide to get one...) ? Have fun getting sniped with GW when you were trying to hang back to let it fall off and heal.

HentRex11/5/2015, 5:29:19 PM1 votes

Had previous discussions about the new AD Item that gives grievous wounds, Either make it like Morello's where it only procs when enemy is under 40% HP. Or Make it an active that lasts a few seconds, much like Yomuu's Ghostblade. Either of these would be a BIG help to the situation here.

James Stone11/5/2015, 6:32:18 PM1 votes

Think about it this way: Riot doesn't do changes on a vacuum, and items like Lord Dominik's Regards are probably in a prototypal state for months. The base idea for this item must have been "LW with Grievous Wounds".

Riot probably thought it would be unfair for MF to have to pay with her power budget what others carries pay with gold, so they removed the GW as an experiment to see if MF can be viable (without being broken) without it.

I'm not defending Lord Dominik's, I'm just saying it's not exactly hypocritical either.