If you want to make a new AD Assassin item...

junglerboy16·Dec 20, 2015·37 votes·2,461 views

...Then the thought behind it should be "how do we make assassins more effective against squishy champs?" instead of "how do we make assassins deal more damage?"

The current idea Riot has for the Assassin Dagger is actually surprisingly archaic and uninventive from a design perspective. As has been mentioned in a couple other threads, this item basically serves as a true AD version of DFG (as opposed to the long compared BotRK). This item is basically a big "Here, have a pile of yummy stats and damage!" with almost no real reason why anything is the way it is. Riot could have gone so many different direction with this to make it a premier assassin item. They could have made it target base stats (i.e. Nightfall deals % base health damage, or "abilities ignore 20% base armor") which is naturally strongest against a squishy, or they could have given assassins incentives to be even more assassin-y in their build and play style (i.e. "basic abilities deal 10% bonus AD as additional physical damage" or "gain 10% increased AD" or "striking an enemy with an auto attack or damaging ability increases your AD by 20% for 1 second, stacks up to 3 times, 30 second cooldown"). Instead Riot gives us a relatively lazy, easily abused, stat booster type of item.

Riot, please don't ship Assassin Dagger, ever. Talk to your players about what AD assassins actually need and want and how to achieve that in a balanced way instead of blindly forging onward with this item.

48 Comments

qetzelDec 21, 201527 votes

This item does several thing. -It does not alter assassins damage against minions -It limits their bust with a cooldown -It has room for error -it doesn't let them burst the enemy if they are outplayed -It doesn't really help an assassin who is ahead that much -It IS weak against tanks. The damage is reduced by armour, and a tank will have less missing health after an assassins burst than a squishy will. It is effectively twice weakened by armour

There are other things that I am missing. This is a healthy item because of the 60 second cooldown. It gives assassins what they need and it gives assassins opponents opportunities to respond, which is needed. Just "more damage" will not do. EDIT: Healthy does not mean balanced. It may need tuning.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This item does several thing. -It does not alter assassins damage against minions -It limits their bust with a cooldown -It has room for error -it doesn't let them burst the enemy if they are outplayed -It doesn't really help an assassin who is ahead that much -It IS weak against tanks. The damage is reduced by armour, and a tank will have less missing health after an assassins burst than a squishy will. It is effectively twice weakened by armour

There are other things that I am missing. This is a healthy item because of the 60 second cooldown. It gives assassins what they need and it gives assassins opponents opportunities to respond, which is needed. Just "more damage" will not do. EDIT: Healthy does not mean balanced. It may need tuning.

all of everything you said is subjective or has nothing to do with the OPs point

qetzelDec 21, 201514 votes

All of the OPs suggestions are just to increase damage. I explained why the dagger was better. The OP stated that "the thought behind it should be "how do we make assassins more effective against squishy champs?" instead of "how do we make assassins deal more damage?"". I explained that the dagger answers this question.

I dunno. I would say that has a lot to do with the OPs post.

SouL1essDec 21, 20154 votes

It is exactly on point with what's wrong with OP's post.

The OP calls out Riot for being lazy, yet offers even lazier solutions to the problem that contradicts the whole point of his OP. qetzel explained the error in the OP pretty well.

It's ridiculous how many upvotes the OP is getting - do people even read?

junglerboy16Dec 22, 20151 votes

My ideas aren't lazy, they are intentionally bland because I don't have an idea for where to go with the item, that's why I'm calling for a discussion instead of just a shipping an item without any dialogue between the community and the designers. I'm not claiming anything I suggested is what it should be, I'm just saying that the item needs a lot of work and isn't going to be anywhere close to a healthy addition to the game.

SouL1essDec 25, 20153 votes

Then you are bashing an idea that does help AD assassins kill squishy targets without enabling them to kill tanks easier, but also saying you have no solution of your own to the problem?

How do you prevent Riot from releasing their idea if all you have to say is "I don't like it"?

Aside from that, your suggestions are still completely counterproductive to your own OP. They are not bland...they take away the whole point of your OP because it looks like you have no idea what you are talking about. It would have been better if you HAVEN'T included it in your OP.

Most of my problem concerning the item is that the assassin doesn't have to do the damage himself in order to activate Nightfall. Aside from that, the new item is the most suitable solution to the problem as of this moment.

WolfeurDec 21, 20151 votes

Also, it's QSS-able

supes the lostDec 25, 20151 votes

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7bw0uWoXA1r3nkzc.gif

Tis a nice dayDec 21, 20156 votes

"Here, have a pile of yummy stats and damage!" with almost no real reason why anything is the way it is.

AD, Movespeed for easier gapclosing, and Armor pen. All relevant stats to AD assassins.

Nightfall deals % base health damage

Tanks (with the exception of Morde) naturally have more base health than squishies. Flat AD is still better for killing squishies compared to tanks.

"abilities ignore 20% base armor"

Tanks and bruisers have either equal or better armor growth than squishies. Flat penetration accomplishes the same goal while being less mathy.

"basic abilities deal 10% bonus AD as additional physical damage" or "gain 10% increased AD"

Could work. Pretty much an AD deathcap. Problem is it snowballs harder than current Nightfall.

"striking an enemy with an auto attack or damaging ability increases your AD by 20% for 1 second, stacks up to 3 times, 30 second cooldown"

Same as above. Snowballs harder than Nightfall.

tl;dr, I don't really think any of the suggestions work as well as the current version of Nightfall.

DreadlocksDec 20, 20155 votes

This thread needs more up-votes, too bad even if it hit 1k+ riot would still wouldn't reconsider.

SouL1essDec 21, 20151 votes

Did you even read the OP?

DreadlocksDec 24, 20151 votes

No i didnt.. good question.

SouL1essDec 21, 20154 votes

The current idea Riot has for the Assassin Dagger is actually surprisingly archaic and uninventive from a design perspective. Instead Riot gives us a relatively lazy, easily abused, stat booster type of item.

OP, everything you suggested is, in fact, how to make assassins do more damage. It's the exact same route taken as Riot to help AD Assassins. Your suggestions are, to be honest, more "relatively lazy, easily abused, and stat-boosting" ways to solve the problem.

Assassin's dagger is MORE intuitive than many of your suggestions, especially the bonus-stats effects that makes the item effective for ANY class of champions. It is also more intuitive than DFG, a simple damage amplification for 3 seconds.

You have to, personally, deal a substantial amount of damage to the target within two seconds, and the passive has a long CD as well - this counters the item from being a tank buster because there is no way an AD assassin can damage a tank beyond 55% of his maximum HP in a 2 second timeframe, even if he uses ALL of his abilities. So this remains an item that is mostly effective against squishier targets who the assassin can actually wound significantly, again in a two seconds timeframe.

The static 2 seconds duration, combined with the fact that it is a PASSIVE instead of an ACTIVE, makes the 25% missing HP much harder to execute in practice. Everything must go right for the AD assassin in order to make the damage worthwhile, and any CC inflicted upon them will cripple the damage from Nightfall. In a way this is similar to Zed's ult or Talon's Cutthroat, where if their kill combo extends more than 3 seconds, they lose a small but significant (~15% but usually the difference between dead target and living target) percent of their damage.

Ale non è maleDec 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

personally**, deal a substantial amount of damage to the target within **two seconds - this counters the item from being a tank buster because there is no way an AD assassin can damage a tank beyond 55% of his maximum HP in a 2 second timeframe, even if he uses ALL of his abilities. So this remains an item that is mostly effective against squishier targets who the assassin can actually wound significantly, again in a two seconds timeframe.

The static 2 seconds duration, combined with the fact that it is a PASSIVE instead of an ACTIVE, makes the 25% missing HP much harder to execute in practice.

NOPE, THAT'S SUPER WRONG

Nightfall: After 2 seconds, deal 25% of the target’s missing health as physical damage. If the target dies before Nightfall ends, the cooldown is refunded.

No mention of the fact that you personally have to deal loads on damage to any target to amplify Nightfall damage

DFG 2.0, plain and simple, and the worst part is that realistically it synergize better with AA based AD assassins because they have better itemization than the spell based AD assassins and can actually deal more damage

SouL1essDec 23, 20151 votes

the worst part is that realistically it synergize better with AA based AD assassins because they have better itemization than the spell based AD assassins and can actually deal more damage

Nightfall has a static 2 seconds duration before it activates.

Spell-based Assassins can output more damage in a shorter time, with longer downtime. AA based AD assassins have less downtime but also less burst within 2 seconds.

Ale non è maleDec 23, 20151 votes

The moment when an AA based AD assassin can apply the mark he is yet on AA range, aka melee range, and an AA based champ can at worst do 2 or 3 AA enhanced by BoTRK even if he is stopped immediately by the target team Plus, to get in the assassin has yet probably used some spell, so those "damage" spells are on CD the moment he activate Nightfall

This item favour AA based Ad assassin more than spell based assassin, that's just how it is, and that's the design paradox becaue it should theoretically help spell based assassin but it does not do that

SouL1essDec 25, 20151 votes

and that's the design paradox becaue it should theoretically help spell based assassin but it does not do that

All AD assassin, by nature of their kit, autoattack at least once, and one attack is all that is required to activate nightfall. How does it benefit AA based more than spell based when the passive is going to activate for all of them, while spell-based assassins have an easier time fitting damage within the 2 second window?

Plus, to get in the assassin has yet probably used some spell, so those "damage" spells are on CD the moment he activate Nightfall

If you failed to do damage with your damaging spells...that's your fault. Nightfall does % missing health anyway so your abilities are not wasted even if you deal the damage before you activate Nightfall.

And yes, sorry my bad, it doesn't say that you have to deal the damage yourself for it to be considered into Nightfall's calculations.

Ale non è maleDec 25, 20151 votes

The AD assassins usually have in their kit one or more spell they can/have to use to REACH their target. Also, they should hopefully keep something to escape after assassinating the target That means, that when the assassin has reached their target, unless the other team has completely failed in their positioning, they have yet one or two spell on CD or they have to keep for the moment after they kill the enemies...and these spells are also part of the damage combo!

The damage you do in those 2 seconds when you are on top of enemies is done mainly and more easily through AAs, reason why Ad assassin generally have an AA steroid on their kit - which again, mean that the AA based AD assassins are inherently favoured -

That's the point you don't get. An AD assassin based on spells actually won't benefit from the item as much as an AA based assassin, because the way the item work the AA based assassin is favoured by current AA itemization. Kha'Zix which is one of those assassin that don't synergize with AA itemization and has no AA steroid outside of his passive that do not work if enemy team has proper vision (aka near useless in team fights vs a competent team), is the AD assassin in the worst state now and even if you introduce the item he will remain in the worst state among assassin because of that, because if he ever get to the enemy to apply the Nightfall passive, he is the guy that at that point can deal the least damage since he doesn't have synergy with AA itemization

You need to introduce something to help those Kha'Zix like champ, something that boost spell damage of AD champs in the way that they can close the gap with AA based champs, that's why I don't like the design of this item... it does indirectly help AA based champs more than AD spell based champs that are the one in major need of help. Once you get in and can apply the Nightfall mark, then AA assassin can deal more damage and more easily than spell based champs

SpoofghoulDec 21, 20152 votes

I very much agree!

This new item doesn't seem right.

Right now with runes masteries Youmous and Maw of malmortius an ad assassin can get 63 arpen which is great vs squishies. You only need 2 item slots for that.

Now with the new item you get an extra 10 flat armorpen. That is 73 flat armorpen which mean you deal almost true damage vs anyone not having armor. And all this armorpen is put on high ad items already. Now consider getting that last whisper for an extra 45% bonus armorpen and you wreck squishies and tanks alike.

The only saving grace for tanks is they will have some armor left, not much but enough to mitigate some of the damage and backed up by hp they wont blow up immediately.

And here comes Rito lets slap on an extra 25% missing hp damage and poof tanks will be annihilated as easy as squishies.

Assassins are still oneshotting squishies so this bonus damage is largely unneccesary for what they want/need to do. In fact the passive is refunded if your target dies.

Meaning the one true purpose of this item is to have assassins kill the carry get out and then kill the tank after . . .

SteelflameDec 21, 20151 votes

Any Assassin which runes for all that arpen will have such a bad laning phase as to be lucky to even get into the game with good gear in time to do anything.

SouL1essDec 21, 20151 votes

Armor penetration runes aren't that bad for trades early.

The problem lies more in wave-clearing and last-hitting.

The Yetii RiderDec 21, 20151 votes

As was stated, flat AD is just the best stat to use to kill squishy targets.

Nightfall essentially gives reset-based champs a guarantee that their targets will still give them the reset even if they Flash away. Since Kha'Zix is the only AD assassin with resets that I can think of, it's probably specifically designed for him.

This item, along with Stormraider's Surge, are specifically meant to help AD assassins deal with marskmen who kite them. Kalista, Vayne, Quinn and Tristana can all get away from assassins and then kite them to oblivion because assassins use their mobility to jump on them in the first place.

People aren't using Stormraider's and it's really annoying. The reason for that is because AD assassins are having a hard time completing their kills with just their kits without Last Whisper. This item will help fix that issue, and then assassins can start using Stormraider's and realize there is nothing wrong with the meta at all.

Lost HpDec 21, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/GhWdm3R6-new-ad-assassin-item-in-internal-testing

maby post the intem and the discussion so poeple dont need to look for it

Assassin Dagger

Recipe: Serrated Dirk + B.F. Sword + ??? gold (over 3000 gold total, still fine tuning)
+75 Attack Damage
+5% Movement Speed
UNIQUE Passive: +10 Armor Penetration
UNIQUE Passive: Basic attacks on an enemy champion apply Nightfall (60 second cooldown).
Nightfall: After 2 seconds, deal 25% of the target’s missing health as physical damage. If the target dies before Nightfall ends, the cooldown is refunded.

La BelloDec 21, 20151 votes

I agree. Riot should look to make these Items more dynammic and less abusable. Something like "when attacking out of stealth or from behind Deal X bonus damage " is alot less abusable.

OneSmoothDudeDec 21, 20151 votes

The forced usage of their proposed item seriously limits how abusable the item is.

Your suggestions would make the item incredibly abusable for certain champs. This would be monstrous on Shaco or Talon, for example, but trash on Fizz or Yi.

La BelloDec 21, 20151 votes

I see your point but then again those champs wouldnt want to build this item. Fizz gets AP and Yi usually goes On-hit AS(as it is alot cheaper than current crit build but does similar damage). The suggestion was a spitball anyways.

OneSmoothDudeDec 25, 20151 votes

No worries, sorry to instantly shit on your idea. But hey if it were like that, those champs would love it. :P

WolfBVDec 21, 20151 votes

AD assassins can't use it whenever they want like you could with DFG.

Pierce The VealDec 21, 20151 votes

I can already tell that assassin's dagger will take one of two paths.

One: Riot will make sure its stats and passive remain strong, as such assassins will buy it just because it's strong.

Two: It will get toned down to bw on the same level as several other items, and people will ouright stop buying it for the most part.

Percent missing health deathmark on an autoattack is gimmicky and Riot knows it. I feel like there was a lot that could be done, but Riot ruined it.

Hash12345Dec 21, 20151 votes

I have to agree with you on that one. Like before for example ap champs like fizz or lb could counter zed. Now I don't think they could tbh especially with the nerfs to the ap items. Then comes the question "what is riot doing?" Like at the start of the preseason if was more like " a season for adcs" now it's more like "fuck adcs and let's focus on assasins". I mean this is completely bs. Now the adcs will be forced to get qss as their starting item against any assassin type team. This is completely wrong. I mean why not make this an all out item for all champions? Is riot scared that maybe an adc like Lucian or graves can do more damage than zed or talon? If they are then that's complete and utter bs in my opinion. Making this item an all out item for "all champions" is better than "assasins". I hope riot makes this item for all champions instead for just melees. Then we shall how this item will be a usable and then the league community who are in favour of this item will truly understand the true power of such a ridiculous item.

iDarkWindDec 21, 20151 votes

Sorry about my ignorance, but the thing of missing hp isn't a passive? It means it will be proc everytime you hit an enemy with one ability, and once you do it it goes on cooldown for 60 seconds. It's overpowered, yeah, but isn't like DFG.

Ale non è maleDec 21, 20151 votes

These are the points I addressed here in my thread, you should distinguish the various niche of assassins and give each own their respective items, not come out with a do-it-all thing - that in the end benefit some Ad assassins more than others -

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/nRFNpoR3-lets-solve-ad-itemization-problems-shiny-new-item-and-reworks

P.S. please if you want to discuss about the sugested item balance do it in that original thread, thanks

QuephaDec 21, 20151 votes

What riot should have made was an active item that reduces the damage of the assassin's target for a brief period of time.

It helps assassins win a duel against their target more assuredly WITHOUT giving them 100-0 potential, it adds utility if they're behind to help round out their overblown feast/famine problem, it makes them viable without being bullshit.

LF AnnieDec 25, 20151 votes

this guy's suggestions all would be abused by the already op MM's

The Sword SaintDec 25, 20151 votes

The dagger is doubly effected by resists, which makes it far worse against tanks than squishy targets. It's also only useful if you commit to trying to kill someone as it has a relatively long cooldown and is an execute, so you can't use it to trade or poke efficiently for the gold investment. It also provides no form of defensive stats so it's value is further diminished on anyone whos ideal play pattern isn't to try and kill someone without giving them any chance to return fire.

SasogwaDec 25, 20151 votes

The strongest stats against squishies? Mobility -> check FLAT armor pen, because squishies don't build armor and it lets you deal nearly true damage to them, sucks against tanks because they have resists -> check "Active" (it's not really an active but w/e) : Deals damage based on how much damage you have already done to them -> you'll have dealt obviously more against a squishy -> better against squishies.

I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about, but Assassin Dagger is a pretty god damn good anti-squishy item. It's awful against tanks and really good against squishies.

While your suggestions are actually way worse (% base armor? worse than flat pen as tanks have more base armor. Stacking damage is less relevant against squishies as you want to blow them up instantly and not get your damage ramping up, which would be.. good against tanks (?!) )

Ale non è maleDec 26, 20151 votes

No one is complaining that Assassin Dagger is pretty god vs squishies

The problem is that it looks like it is too good vs ANY champ

SasogwaDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdcI967L,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2015-12-26T10:55:19.590+0000)

No one is complaining that Assassin Dagger is pretty god vs squishies

The problem is that it looks like it is too good vs ANY champ

So if it's "specialized against squishies, weaker against everyone else" but still "good vs ANY champ", just nerf it. I don't see how you can make it that worse against everyone else while still being good vs squishies, if it's entirely designed around dealing with those. Like, unless you create a whole new mechanic against squishy champions especially, but actually I think it's in a decent spot. It doesn't seem that good against tankier champions. Yes, there's the fact that the %missing health damage can help your team out a lot if they focus down a tank. But on 60 sec CD applied by any autoattack (even if you don't want to proc it), I'm doubtful it's so op. I'll have to test it before I can make myself a better opinion on its power level.

Ale non è maleDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So if it's "specialized against squishies, weaker against everyone else" but still "good vs ANY champ", just nerf it. I don't see how you can make it that worse against everyone else while still being good vs squishies, if it's entirely designed around dealing with those. Like, unless you create a whole new mechanic against squishy champions especially, but actually I think it's in a decent spot. It doesn't seem that good against tankier champions. Yes, there's the fact that the %missing health damage can help your team out a lot if they focus down a tank. But on 60 sec CD applied by any autoattack (even if you don't want to proc it), I'm doubtful it's so op. I'll have to test it before I can make myself a better opinion on its power level.

The problem of this item is that it is designed around an execute passive that put a huge Sword of Damocles on the head of your enemy, and has also a mechanism reset on it that becomes a lose-lose situation for the target Basically someone hit by the Mark, either dies before the 2 seconds time period where the mark pop out, and thus make the passive available again in a fight for the assassin resetting it, or suffer so much damage that he dies after those 2 seconds because of the mark - remember, the mark is applied through an AA, which means that the assassin to apply it is yet on top of you because they have usually melee AA range - You can't stay to fight back, because even if you kill the assassin you die as well when the Mark hits so it is a lose-lose situation for you Your only chances are move out immediately through flash Flash or Zhonya/invulnerability, and they both have much higher CD than the Nightfall passive and require much more timing and precision to be activated rather than just AA a champ once

Plus, as I have debated with another guy, in the discussion below (check it out), I'll argue that this item help more AA based AD assassins than spell based AD assassin which are indeed the ones which need more help now

SasogwaDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdcI967L,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-26T11:14:20.788+0000)

The problem of this item is that it is designed around an execute passive that put a huge Sword of Damocles on the head of your enemy, and has also a mechanism reset on it that becomes a lose-lose situation for the target Basically someone hit by the Mark, either dies before the 2 seconds time period where the mark pop out, and thus make the passive available again in a fight for the assassin resetting it, or suffer so much damage that he dies after those 2 seconds because of the mark - remember, the mark is applied through an AA, which means that the assassin to apply it is yet on top of you because they have usually melee AA range - You can't stay to fight back, because even if you kill the assassin you die as well when the Mark hits so it is a lose-lose situation for you Your only chances are move out immediately through flash Flash or Zhonya/invulnerability, and they both have much higher CD than the Nightfall passive and require much more timing and precision to be activated rather than just AA a champ once

Plus, as I have debated with another guy, in the discussion below (check it out), I'll argue that this item help more AA based AD assassins than spell based AD assassin which are indeed the ones which need more help now

I saw your argumentation. It has nothing in it except : AA based assassins are better than spell assassins because they do more damage during a time window. So an item that gives AD/arpen is better on them.

... I don't know what to answer at that. Are you for real or trolling? If the champion you're on is a spell caster, well you have to land your spells in the combo. If that fully lands and does less damage than an AA based champion with a build based on AD/arpen that has no attack speed or crit ; the problem is not the items, it's the champions. In that case, buff the caster champion we're talking about. AD/arpen items have WAY better synergy with caster assassins than with autoattack champions. Works with the AD ratios, gives pen to work on spells too, cdr is also great for casters and bad for autoattackers.

Ale non è maleDec 26, 20151 votes

AA assassins have BoTRK that boost AA damage, spell Ad assassins have nothing that boost their damage

I'll quote my post in discussion below

The AD assassins usually have in their kit one or more spell they can/have to use to REACH their target. Also, they should hopefully keep something to escape after assassinating the target That means, that when the assassin has reached their target, unless the other team has completely failed in their positioning, they have yet one or two spell on CD or they have to keep for the moment after they kill the enemies...and these spells are also part of the damage combo!

The damage you do in those 2 seconds when you are on top of enemies is done mainly and more easily through AAs, reason why Ad assassin generally have an AA steroid on their kit - which again, mean that the AA based AD assassins are inherently favoured -

Also, AAs can crit which can double the AA damage, and spell based assassin have no such a kind of damage amplification available right now

The problem is that AD/ArPEN stats have the same synergy with both spell based and AA based champs, but AA champ has further means to amplify their damage that spell based champ do not have

The dagger apply the mark in a situation when you have gotten on top of the champs because require an AA to activate, so whatever kind of assassin you have, you are in position where you can AA, and at that point the rest of AD itemization available give an edge to AA based assassin.

SasogwaDec 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdcI967L,comment-id=001100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-26T12:29:30.830+0000)

AA assassins have BoTRK that boost AA damage, spell Ad assassins have nothing that boost their damage

I'll quote my post in discussion below That means, that when the assassin has reached their target, unless the other team has completely failed in their positioning, they have yet one or two spell on CD or they have to keep for the moment after they kill the enemies...and these spells are also part of the damage combo!

Also, AAs can crit which can double the AA damage, and spell based assassin have no such a kind of damage amplification available right now

The problem is that AD/ArPEN stats have the same synergy with both spell based and AA based champs, but AA champ has further means to amplify their damage that spell based champ do not have

The dagger apply the mark in a situation when you have gotten on top of the champs because require an AA to activate, so whatever kind of assassin you have, you are in position where you can AA, and at that point the rest of AD itemization available give an edge to AA based assassin.

Since botrk is garbage as of right now and nobody takes it anymore, I can't take you seriously. Spell AD assassins have nothing that boost their damage? http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/993/875/084.png They got AD,arpen,cdr which are basically the best stats in the game for a caster. You can still AA as much as others. And no it doesn't. ESPECIALLY since botrk got dumpstered ( on-hit reduced by 1/4th, price increased, worse build path).

So no, just no. Also getting a full AD/arpen with no as/crit whatsoever is garbage on someone relying on AA.

Ale non è maleDec 26, 20151 votes

BoTRK is not garbage now It is just that was FAR too overpowered before and even champs that shouldn't have picked it first at first istance rushed it as core item It is garbage now when ran on champs that shouldn't have gotten it at first, but the item is still pretty much powerful

AD and ArPEN boost autoattacks as well as spells, though So, the item that boost spell damage boost also autoattack damage, but autoattacks have further way to get boosted, and they are not limited by cooldown, mana costs and such The only stat that favour casters only is CDR, and well, it could also be argued that an assassin does his combo so fast that CDR is not boosting the actual combo but "just" reduce the time between the combo are available between a fight and the next one - which is super good, but does not really boost their damage in the single combo -

Getting a full AD/ArPen with no as/crit on someone relying on AA is garbage, but actually AA champs are not needed to do it so Yomuu is more than enough to give the ArPEN, and the other items except Maw which is situational are marksmen items (Lord Dominik and Mortal reminder work on bonus armor pen, so an assassin shouldn't rush them if not facing multiple tanks in the enemy team), an AA based champ can easily ran actually Yomuu (or Maw or both) and then get AS/crit in the item build as well

AA itemization is favoured, no way you can say otherwise. Kha'Zix has no aa steroid when he is in vision range, and he is the assassin in the worst shape right now. That's not casual at all

Pierce The VealDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Snip

Even as I looked at the item, I could already see that it was merely a hunk of damage. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a rather situational item at best were it shipped to live.

Belmont UprisingDec 21, 2015

So, here is a thought. If the problem is the need to deal more dmg to squishies, why cant Nightfall be a passive like this:

Nightfall: your auto attacks and abilities deal 6% more damage to enemy champions with less than 70 armor or 70 magic resist and less than 1400 hp. Damage is increased to 12% when target is below 25% health.

supes the lostDec 25, 20151 votes

So, I thought I'd point this out since I saw this as an after thought, but with the stats labeled, the item wouldn't work in late game since the lowest base health, in the game at level 18, is Mini Gnar at a minuscule 1645 health. On top of this, at level 18, only 3 champions wouldn't qualify for the armor requirement (Thresh at 16, Mini Gnar at 65, and Orianna at 68) and I hardly think thresh even really qualifies since he has infinitely stacking armor.

Also, this item would really heavily favor auto-attack focused assassins, and god forbid anything else that auto-attacks as a main source of damage, more then it would assassins that focus more on spell casting.

TL;DR Stats mentioned aren't good, Idea isn't good as an Assassin Dagger replacement.

Belmont UprisingDec 25, 20152 votes

Well I appreciate you spelling this out for me, but after having posted that comment I realized having the Assassin Dagger item is generally bad no matter what it might be.

supes the lostDec 25, 20151 votes

I got bored and felt the need to math, thanks for being a good sport over my mathing. :D