aren't Azir's and Yasuo's Lanes a bit strong?

{quoted}

Late game champions in general are too strong early. Since all champions have similar stats early, one small slip up can cost you the game if you give a kill to the wrong carry. It's not like Orianna's early game is bad, for example, and she is one of the hardest scaling mages.

There are many late game champions who are actually weak early game, like they should be since they are late game champions, therefore they are balanced.

The problem is that many late game champions currently do not give up as much of their power during the early game and the way their kit currently works allows them to snowball very hard. The same does not happen with the aforementioned champions - which can still snowball, but they still require time to allow them to scale well.

yes, but any decent azir holds a soldier to dash to if he is unaware of the enemies' whereabouts.

he can spam W which easily shoves waves while having a negligible effect on his mana. His main risk is if he misuses Q, but often after killing the casters or melee minions with 3 aa's, he can get a Q and free aa (which can really hurt). Or he can just not use Q, and save it for when his opponent goes aggressive. GL with that trade

basically just don't spam Q, and he can build a CS lead by shoving waves and backing off afterwards. E keeps him safe as long as he isn't super extended without vision. then, even if he goes even, he out scales most opponents

Akali, remember that on G+B you can only say that yasuo needs nerfs and lux needs buffs, any other opinion is blasphemy

just no. it's not at all shit. I'm sorry, silver azir's are probably shit, but a competent azir is a huge lane bully against many champions, and in addition he also out scales many of them :/

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zc7HEGqm,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-10-27T22:50:55.970+0000)

You'd be surprised, but Yasuo actually gets shit on later, since he's paper, but also early, when you survive his level 2 cheese.

Azir's early-to-late on the other hand is the cancer impersonated. W-AA-Q-AA at level 2 will take down 33-50% of enemy laner's health with little-to-zero room for retaliation, while Azir's mana will barely take a hit. And it only gets worse, because his mana costs are static and his scaling with CDR is absurd.

Azir's mana might only take a little hit from one combo, but if you expect him to do anything he'll need multiple. If you dodge his Q at best he'll get one auto on you. Repeated attempts at poke will really grind his mana, even late game.

{quoted}

Idk what these guys are saying about Yasuo's lane phase, but it's all wrong. "dodging" his q? Are you serious? It's nearly instantaneous and in a straight line. The only way you're dodging it is if you get lucky or have a disengage. Statikk Shiv is the first item every Yasuo goes for, once he get's that, you can't dodge it. Low HP pool? Really? Any smart yasuo knows to engage if you poke him to get rid of his passive. I've gone against a ton of yasuos and he is NOT weak, low hp pool or not. He has more hp than Ahri, LeBlanc, Syndra, Lissandra...It goes on. Don't tell me he has a small HP pool when it's higher than most mid laners. Not only that, Wind Wall. Try to engage him and you're done. Period. Waste your spells and then die. The only champion I've ever had an easy time with against him was Morgana, and that was mostly because I had w to help farm and e to stop the knockups.

I have an easy time against Yasuo using

Cho'Gath can only lose at the first three levels, and that's because he doesn't have all of his basic abilities, and Yasuo is really strong at those levels. Then he wins from level 4 onwards. Yasuo just can't outpoke Cho, because of his passive. Yasuo's shield mean nothing because Cho'Gath can easily break it by just auto-attacking a minion while E is toggled. This way, the spikes will break Yasuo's passive. Cho'Gath can deny all of Yasuo's engages because he can silence Yasuo before he can cast his ult.

Fizz can actually win auto-attack trades with Yasuo early, and thanks to his W being a DoT, it can continue to damage Yasuo through his shield. It will be hard for Yasuo to windwall Fizz's ult because a smart Fizz will first stick to Yasuo and only then ult. Fizz has his trollpole to dodge Yasuo's tornado. AP Fizz can win against Yasuo during the early game and will burst him down later. AD Fizz will lose early but will always win later and has the advantage of being less punished for mistakes.

Vladimir's Q is point-click so Yasuo can't dodge it. Yasuo also cannot windwall the damage part, although the windwall will prevent the particle from returning to Vlad, denying his heal. This doesn't make Vladimir worse against Yasuo. Thanks to Vlad's sustain, Yasuo will have a hard time outpoking him. It becomes worse for Yasuo after Vlad gets a Hextech Revolver since then it will be impossible to outpoke Vladimir and Yasuo will lose the lane and will be unable to snowball off Vlad because he can't rush lifesteal.

All of them are solid picks against Yasuo, if you are having a hard time against him, try one of them.

I agree that Yasuo should be reworked, though. Even though he isn't hard to beat or OP, he is simply extremely unfun to play against. Not only that, he snowballs way too easily and isn't working as intended.

But he was released not a long time ago... And rework already?

All they need to do is replace Wind Wall with another skill more fitting to a melee carry. Right now, it's one of the best support/utility skills in the game and properly using it wins teamfights with ease. So give it to a support and give Yasuo another damage skill or a weaker utility skill. He's already got his shield to mitigate poke and his dash to dodge skillshots. He doesn't need ANOTHER way to shit on laners who rely on ranged attacks or skill shots on top of that. There is a REASON all his counters are people who can ignore or get around wind wall. The skill is THAT strong. It makes him too binary though. Either you can ignore Wind Wall in lane, since which case Yas kinda sucks... or you're vulnerable to it, in which case Yasuo becomes a frustrating pile of cancer that NO ONE wants to fight. Get rid of Wind Wall and Yas will be balanced, less obnoxious to play against, and less of a "must have" pick. As it is now he's seems like he's in every single freaking game!