Can we make supports synergize more with mages?

TeCoolMage·Nov 30, 2017·37 votes·1,112 views

While some cases are more difficult than others (Lulu giving AS), others are really simple:

Janna gives adaptive AD/AP on her shield - No reason not to do this other than because Janna's strong Sona's Q aura is consumed on the first enemy hit by either spell or auto - Can be done this way, or 1/3 damage for AoE but affects everyone in the area Nami E works on spells, nearest enemy or 1/3 for AoE but affects everyone Braum passive adds a stack on every unique spell - QWE from a mage procs it, which may be quicker early game in a mage

braum bot lane vs a low AS ADC but then they have to wait for cooldowns

(then nerf ardent censer again xd)

26 Comments

Pika310Nov 30, 201714 votes

I've seen this before and suggested it myself as well, more than once. Completely agree.

The most ironic part? Sona's original kit synergized with mages. It was Fearless & patch 4.13 that took that away.

PS: Sona doesn't use auras anymore; call it a bubble, a lingering active or what have you, but not an aura.

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20172 votes

Sona's tooltips still call it an aura, and honestly the current iteration is more fitting than the older ones - auras have historically been depicted as light, colour or smoke radiating from an object

Pika310Nov 30, 20172 votes

The gaming definition of an aura lists 4 necessary characteristics:

A permanent effect, while within range
Cannot be dispelled and is unaffected by Silence
Does not have a cooldown
Originates from the user's position

Sona's current lingering actives do not fulfill any, but the last 1 of these 4 mandatory characteristics.

Sona's champion page also lists her Q range at 825, while the Wiki claims it's 850, but it's **ACTUAL **range is 700. They both also fail to note that it **only **prioritizes champions if they are within 600 units of her.

Don't trust everything Rito says, they frequently give us false information or blatantly omit pertinent details.

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20171 votes

Semantics. There's no organization that officially defines what an 'aura' is.

So if I can suppress my aura it's not an aura?
So an Aura from DnD in an anti-magic field isn't an aura?
So if I had an aura that only functions in daylight it's not an aura?
So I can't give an aura to someone else?

Pika310Nov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Semantics. There's no organization that officially defines what an 'aura' is.

Blizzard Entertainment's Official Definition of an aura:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Aura

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20171 votes

Blizzard has an official definition, but it does not officially define what an aura is.

rtbf221651412Dec 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Blizzard Entertainment's Official Definition of an aura:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Aura

WoW considers aura's that.

Tera argues otherwise.

http://tera.wikia.com/wiki/Aura_of_the_Merciless

Jet SettNov 30, 20172 votes

The effect is permanent while the aura is active, the aura itself was not said to be permanent.
If an aura is dispelled while in an anti-magic field it no longer exists because there is no longer an effect which wholly defines an aura. And video game mechanics obviously work different as a whole compared to tabletop mechanics.
That isn't technically a cooldown, just a condition. I do agree that some aura abilities have cooldowns compared to others and the two are not mutually exclusive.
"User" is whoever is in possession of the aura. If an aura is created and then given to someone, they are now the user of said aura.

rtbf221651412Dec 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Sona's tooltips still call it an aura, and honestly the current iteration is more fitting than the older ones - auras have historically been depicted as light, colour or smoke radiating from an object

Sona uses an active aura.

There is a thing called a passive aura.

Athenes LuluNov 30, 20178 votes

Make Lulu's W give AP to allies again, that's a good start 8)

Sahn UzalNov 30, 20174 votes

it used to do that? did it get removed because of Solo Lane Lulu or something?

SwarovskoNov 30, 20173 votes

yes in v3.14

AudiomancyNov 30, 20171 votes

Solo Lane Lulu wasn't really a thing until somewhere in Season 4-5 I think?

It just got removed because Riot was gutting the idea of 'free stats.'

Athenes LuluDec 1, 20171 votes

It got removed because "it didn't make sense" and that Riot wanted her to synergize with ~~ADCs~~ autoattackers even more.

No one knew Lulu's W gave AP even when she was strong in the solo lane.

ChaddyFantomeNov 30, 20175 votes

That would severely buff those supports to the point of absurdity. Im all for making supports synsrgize with other non adc classes more, but a great deal of your suggestions would be busted.

If Braums passive or Nami E applied to spells, AoE ones even, itd be not only near impossible to avoid, but the same ADCs you are trying to shift focus away from would be able to abuse this as well.

I personally would not be interested in Varus Qs applying Braum passive myself. Then again, i wouldnt be interested in Syndr ulti applying it either.

Keeping it auto attack based keeps it gated and limited, mage or otherwise.

As for Janna, there is reason Lulu's W no longer gives bonus AP.

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20171 votes

Syndra ult only counts once (unique spell), and if she does her full burst combo finishing off with R the stun won't be as useful because she has to wait for cooldowns anyway or the target has been burst down

Varus Q is for poke or to weave between autos (but generally he wants to charge up Q), and he doesn't build as much attack speed as non-caster ADCs so in a way it brings him closer to those kinds of ADCs in terms of synergy

It'll be unabalanced immediately because caster ADCs are made with this lack of synergy in mind but long term it'll be better because then they won't be balanced too differently from full AS ADCs (who tend to have cast times so casting abilities actually slows down their hits per second, don't cast Jinx or Ashe abilities for damage when in auto range late game please) in relation to their supports

Malix FarwinNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That would severely buff those supports to the point of absurdity. Im all for making supports synsrgize with other non adc classes more, but a great deal of your suggestions would be busted.

If Braums passive or Nami E applied to spells, AoE ones even, itd be not only near impossible to avoid, but the same ADCs you are trying to shift focus away from would be able to abuse this as well.

I personally would not be interested in Varus Qs applying Braum passive myself. Then again, i wouldnt be interested in Syndr ulti applying it either.

Keeping it auto attack based keeps it gated and limited, mage or otherwise.

As for Janna, there is reason Lulu's W no longer gives bonus AP.

You are saying it would be broken but you haven't actually said why. You just mentioned what affects it would do to abilities if it applied when in all those situations ADCs could do that same thing. Also, despite the animation, Syndra's alt is not a multi-hit ability but you know what is currently in game and can Multi-hit Braum's passive? Lucian.

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20171 votes

syndra's ult is worse than multi-hit though, it's literally multiple single hits (think sona Q auto vs. Cassiopeia EE)

but again I specifically mentioned unique ability cast so it doesn't matter either way

Kitten of EvilNov 30, 20172 votes

This makes sense to me, and isn't out-of-place even in the support+ADC meta. After all, while the support helps the ADC early game, they help everyone in teamfights or roams. And why shouldn't mages in teamfights or skirmishes benefit from some supports?

xelakerDec 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

While some cases are more difficult than others (Lulu giving AS), others are really simple:

Janna gives adaptive AD/AP on her shield - No reason not to do this other than because Janna's strong Sona's Q aura is consumed on the first enemy hit by either spell or auto - Can be done this way, or 1/3 damage for AoE but affects everyone in the area Nami E works on spells, nearest enemy or 1/3 for AoE but affects everyone Braum passive adds a stack on every unique spell - QWE from a mage procs it, which may be quicker early game in a mage

braum bot lane vs a low AS ADC but then they have to wait for cooldowns

(then nerf ardent censer again xd)

so now, these and other supports not only help the acd's auto attacks, but also their spells? you just made them help adcs even more and mages a little bit more...

rtbf221651412Dec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

so now, these and other supports not only help the acd's auto attacks, but also their spells? you just made them help adcs even more and mages a little bit more...

item 3001 item 3091

?????

TeCoolMageDec 1, 20171 votes

The idea is that caster ADCs get nerfed a bit and balance around them is changed while a majority of AS ADCs stay the same because while in auto range their ability cast times actually lower their hits per second (don't cast jinx or Ashe abilities while auto attacking for damage, twitch too I think)

KaìjuNov 30, 20171 votes

I think the big issue is that mages in bot lane like say Xerath are debatably weaker than ADCs because of cooldowns, mana, and the lack of XP meaning you'll probably just lose lane and in the current meta losing lane is losing the game.

GelmousNov 30, 20171 votes

i support taking support to mid or top instead of bot

Jungle Lux GodNov 30, 20171 votes

Something else that might be interesting for some of these supports is to have any auto attack modifiers that deal damage AP scaling from the target champion. AD champions can get repeated use out of a lot of these on-hit effects like Nami's or Lulu's E or Sona's Q, so it makes sense to increase the reward for most of these modifiers when you buff an AP champion.

Some of you might think that it's too hard for an AP champion to get an auto attack off, but many AP champions have some reason to use their auto attacks, and even those that don't could afford to auto attack at least some point just to get a little bit of extra damage (even if it deals only 1-2 damage after resistances without the modifier).

ShablagooDec 1, 20171 votes

Maybe because supports primary role is to protect and help let the adc farm up. While Mages have no real problem in this regard, and can solo lane really easy. I am not knocking down your idea, I am just saying their is a reason why supports go bot instead of mid.