Shen's and his rework [wall of text-ish]

arc95··21 votes·1,759 views

So Shen rework isnt bad at all (he is still my favorite champ and 2nd highest mastery) but I feel the rework missed the mark of what Shen is (on his Q and W...the E and R are great...and I'm indifferent on his passive)

When I see Shen I think of a Ninja tank... a tank that utilizes mobility to avoid damage instead of shields and dodge Zones(his old and current W)

I would've liked to see him be kind of a "ability dodging tank"... and then the whole spirit blade system that was built is just weird and doesn't really fit Shen thematically

PREFACE: this is roughly what I would like to see im not saying this would be prefect or perfectly balance...and things would obviously need to be tweaked but this is what I would like the essence of Shen to be

The spirit blade system: again isn't bad but it doesn't fit/make too much thematic sense the way they have it set up... Shen manifests the blade where he stands he doesn't pull it to him, like a sword on a rope, and his spirit blade isn't inherently stronger than his Ionian steel saber, he just switches between the two blades based on his targets... saber for earthly enemies spirit blade for "spectral"(for lack of a better term) enemies

His Q: the 2 blades should use some sort of toggle system between the 2 blades(on his Q) each is strong vs a certain enemy...or some system where he uses the 2 blades but both blades are equally as good but work better in different scenarios...

such as spirit blade deals ap, or has % hp damage, or has magic/armor pen... and steel saber deals bonus ad or has some pen or something on it... or one has increased attack speed and the other has a damage modifier... or SOMETHING along those lines it doesn't have to be exactly that

Then his W(which I feel is the really big let down of the rework, and the only thing I truly dislike):

instead of giving a dodge zone I think it should give a blink zone where Shen can continuously blink to any enemy in the zone,dealing no damage though...with a short cooldown between each blink similar to Yauso E...BUT BUT BUTTTTT

unlike Yasuo it is in a limited zone and the zone only lasts for a few seconds then goes on a long cooldown... similar to how spirits refugee currently works(or limit it to like 3-5 blinks with or without a time limit... whatever makes it balanced)

But that keeps with the thematic where Shen blinks between realms(like when Shen randomly appeared in the middle of the Noxian court while in the middle of a battle), and he utilizes that to avoid damage, which is more "ninja" like since he has to be crafty and mobile to avoid damage... instead of the dodge zone/shield that was on his old W...where he just stood their and pressed W

plus the blink zone would synergizes very well with his Shadow dash(E) by allowing him to set up for great angles in team fights

Edit: give Shen back damage reduction to taunted enemies... sense your removing dodge zone and he is much more susceptible to being rekted by taunted marksmen

edit 2: I dont know if blinks drop aa agro... I dont believe they do unless you blink outside off enemies range....but if they do you Shens "blinks" shouldn't drop the agro(if your blink doesn't escape the enemies range)

24 Comments

Delebru7 votes

i like the idea with the q toggle current q with spirit blade moving around feels weird to use and also weird to look at

redfeenix6 votes

Yeh he looks like a leashed puppy. And also its gonna be tough sneaking around with a BIG BRIGHT SHAMAN"S TOTEM FOLLOWING YOU AROUND.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Auto attacks automatically hit so you can't avoid them with mobility. With your suggested W, Shen would just die to the enemy carry attacking him in his taunt.

Ralanr1 votes

Hmm...this is true and we can't just give Shen untargetablilty.

arc951 votes

{quoted}

Hmm...this is true and we can't just give Shen untargetablilty.

its not untargetablilty... it is a instant blink like flash... you can always target him... the power comes in the ability to avoid skill shots and set up shadow dashes... a targeted ability like lb's q will follow him through the blink... and you can still target that q while he is blink the difficult will be he jumps from under your cursor so you have to predict

Ralanr1 votes

Yes but the current dodge zone gives him an advantage to avoid auto attacks from taunted targets.

Melledoneus1 votes

Actually, that's only if the target is ahead.

The W is best being used for extended trades, to block empowered autos, or protect yourself from minion aggro/ champion punishment while backing off after a trade.

arc951 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zZEGpdef,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-26T16:05:23.465+0000)

Auto attacks automatically hit so you can't avoid them with mobility. With your suggested W, Shen would just die to the enemy carry attacking him in his taunt.

that didnt happen with his old kit and his W shield was practically nothing since it scaled on ap...and when you play shen you want to drop spirits refugee on your carries not you (so that dodge doesn't really effect you in teamfights

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

that didnt happen with his old kit and his W shield was practically nothing since it scaled on ap...and when you play shen you want to drop spirits refugee on your carries not you (so that dodge doesn't really effect you in teamfights

With his old kit, he took 50% reduced damage from auto attacks during his taunt. That was removed with his rework.

arc951 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zZEGpdef,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-26T16:14:57.385+0000)

With his old kit, he took 50% reduced damage from auto attacks during his taunt. That was removed with his rework.

hmm you right I didnt think of that...well then I would say reapply damage reduction to his taunt... and also when he had that damage reduction he had no mr scaling which he has now so he is naturally tankyer now... but in any sense i dont know why they removed that reduction to begin with because you dont use refugee on you in teamfights anyway

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

hmm you right I didnt think of that...well then I would say reapply damage reduction to his taunt... and also when he had that damage reduction he had no mr scaling which he has now so he is naturally tankyer now... but in any sense i dont know why they removed that reduction to begin with because you dont use refugee on you in teamfights anyway

They did it to make him squishier. And it succeeded.

Delebru3 votes

every blink could make him drop all aggro, so u would have to use attack command on him again and with him blinking real fast around that wouldn t be easy

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

every blink could make him drop all aggro, so u would have to use attack command on him again and with him blinking real fast around that wouldn t be easy

That would defeat the purpose of drawing the aggro with taunt in the first place...

Delebru1 votes

his taunt could be the exception of course

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

his taunt could be the exception of course

So his W just does nothing while the enemy is taunted? That would make his lane way worse than it is now.

Delebru2 votes

you contradict yourself now, first u said W dropping E´s aggro is bad and now u say W would be useless if it doesn t

arc951 votes

[deleted]

Delebru1 votes

i was talking to The Yetii Rider about my suggestion to make W drop all aggro

arc951 votes

{quoted}

i was talking to The Yetii Rider about my suggestion to make W drop all aggro

OHHHHHHH...I'll delete that then >.<

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

you contradict yourself now, first u said W dropping E´s aggro is bad and now u say W would be useless if it doesn t

No. I'm saying if W does literally nothing while Shen is taunting then it's useless.

If all Shen does is blink around and it provides 0 defense to him when he's Taunting then he is basically down a skill in trades. A useless W is one of the reasons Master Yi is never seen in top lane.

arc951 votes

{quoted}

every blink could make him drop all aggro, so u would have to use attack command on him again and with him blinking real fast around that wouldn t be easy

there would be a cooldown between blinks your couldn't instantly blink that would be broke af... also I dont think it drops aa aggro unless you blink outside of aa range because it is a instant re-position not an untargetability (but if it does I would say make his " blinks" not drop aggro)

arc951 votes

plz read my preface(about 1/3 of the way in the post) and edits at the bottom if you haven't :P

Melledoneus1 votes

I agree that the Q is weird, but the toggle sounds a bit unfair, and does not promote his playstyle of a tank. I feel like a better mechanic would be a series of strong strikes, with a double-bladed attack. This way, both his regular auto and some magic damage would be included, and the animation could be him moving in a blur, seeing an afterimage of each strike. It fits Shen, since he is quick and he will alternate between his blades to take down a champion by cleaving through their spirit and their body.

The W idea is not good at all. I personally would hate a Shen who's blinking everywhere like he's Kassadin. I play and love Shen because of his simplicity. Don't turn him into a mobility bot who will get nerfed because building damage on him is broken. Instead, an idea for his W would be he creates a zone that reduces physical damage taken if enemy champions are attacking from outside it. Enemies inside will be slowed but their damage will not be negated. Another idea for his W is that Shen shields an ally or himself, and if the shield breaks within a short period of time the enemy attacking is heavily slowed. This way, Shen can protect allies better while maintaining a dueling complex, and enemies will be forced to switch targets if the slow will impede their mobility.

I feel like Shen's kit needs to follow this guideline:

Passive: Defensive ability, must involve shields and/or reward Shen for stacking HP.

Q: Damage, administered through auto attacks. Must provide range/sticking power.

W: Defensive ability for both Shen and allies. Must punish enemies for attacking while it is being used.

E: Dash-taunt, iconic ability. Must grant Shen an advantage in trades and be a reliable tool in peeling/engaging.

R: Ultimate ability, teleport to ally +shield to keep them alive. Shield must survive focus fire from one or two people long enough to allow Shen to arrive. Should the enemy team reach the target and and focus the ally, Shen's shield should give out relatively quickly.

NazZomLord1 votes

Praise it!

More from Gameplay

More by arc95