Why is Garens Demacian Justice Cooldown still so long?

Agidyne·Jan 17, 2015·12 votes·1,272 views

I just can't find a reason to keep it that way.

It's early damage is mediocre at best, both Noxian Guillotine and Windslash are much better and are on a much lower cooldown.

Second, it deals Magical Damage. That means a single Hexdrinker can absorb your ultimate alone.

It might feel weird to build MR against Garen but that will completely nulify his ult damage.

Finally, it is a single target close range execute, similar to Noxian Guillotine, just worse.

It also lacks any recastability and similar effects.

It doesn't have the impact of something such as Stand United or Requiem

Why should its cooldown be so long?

16 Comments

AdaloreJan 18, 20154 votes

Well in isolation his ult is really...meh. In the context of the rest of his kit it is very powerful.

Esp if you do this thing called "Building Brusier" instead of "Full tank, I do damage right?"

The best Garen games are those that let you rush IE and crit spin people to death, the ult just becomes icing on that cake.

On the hexdrinker bit, that does what? In a one on one situation you just bought a item that costs 1450gp with very little besides 25 AD to show for it vs him, that at BEST will subvert expectations of the ult kill ONCE.

Now I know the population of good Garen players is very small, but the ones that will wreck you will be doing more than relying on base numbers and actually will build AD. Which then the hexdrinker is like a sign saying "Please kill me" if the other player knows to check items after each back.

AgidyneJan 18, 20152 votes

There is almost no difference between a good Garen and a great Garen.

He has no innate combos and he is simply in the game to teach you how to win trades in the laning phase, that's why he needs to be a strong laner.

The main difference between a good Garen and a great Garen is knowing when your ult will kill someone and just how to fight off ganks and literally how to lane.

Also, Hexdrinker will always eat his Ultimate base damage until level 11.

It's a great buy against him simply because it leaves him without an ultimate for a very long time.

TeklmJan 18, 20154 votes

I find it funny how Darius is asking for Garen buffs :P

That being said, I agree Garen's ult cooldown is probably too long.

ErijianJan 18, 20154 votes

Because bad players who sucked at laning against Garen complained enough on the forums and got him nerfed a long time ago in pretty much everything he had on his kit.

RebonackJan 18, 20154 votes

Make it stun the target for two seconds if it doesn't kill them.

There. Now it feels impactful even if if your target survives with a sliver of health, giving Garen and his team time to finish them off.

BastionKrossJan 18, 20153 votes

Riot stated back on the old forums that Garen's ulty CD is the way it is because they don't want you killing someone with it, going back to base, and then having it ready again shortly after returning to lane to repeat over and over.

If they're going to buff it in some way, which they should, they most likely would give it more power in some form to justify the long CD instead of lowering the CD.

AgidyneJan 18, 20153 votes

Then why is Jinx allowed to have it as an AoE global nuke?

That thing even deals Physical damage after all.

And it scales with AD.

BastionKrossJan 19, 20151 votes

Because she can miss or you can dodge it, while Garen's is point and click.

And Garen is a different type of champion altogether. Jinx doesn't start out as powerful as a lot of other champions and still needs her support champ to babysit, but Garen is a lane bully. He can spend the entire laning phase whooping your ass. And even if he doesn't, and gets to level 6, he can win an all-in with his ult pretty easily. Riot doesn't want his CD low enough that when you both get back to lane, he all-ins you again with his ult at the ready.

However, I do think his ult needs to be buffed up to a power level that justifies that CD. Add a scaling. Increase the range. Have it reset his other CDs if he kills someone with it. Just something to make it powerful enough to rival other, better ults with similar CDs.

MPendragonJan 18, 20151 votes

Hexdrinker = Upon taking magic damage, generates a shield that absorbs damage.

Demacian Justice is instant cast, meaning it overrides Hexdrinker's passive.

Theoretically, if you got Tibber ult'd to 2 health, then Hexdrinker would proc. Any magical ability that would otherwise instantly slay you, will not proc Hexdrinker.

EndlessSorcererJan 18, 20158 votes

Upon taking magic damage that would reduce health below 30%

It doesn't override Hexdrinker's passive. The shield activates when you take magic damage that would reduce your health below 30%, so even if the damage is enough to instantly kill you otherwise, the shield will still activate.

AgidyneJan 18, 20151 votes

yep.

SexyTaylorSwiftJan 18, 20151 votes

Can you please stop trolling now. Please please please please.

PheroJan 18, 20151 votes

Afaik hexdrinker activates on magic damage if that damage is going to reduce you to less than 30% health. Regardless of the amount of damage or "how fast" it hit you. Sure if the damage is high enough the shield will just get blown away of course.

That's at least how it SHOULD work.

AgidyneJan 18, 20151 votes

That's not the point

I'm just asking why Garens Ultimate has such a long cooldown when it is such a lackluster ultimate.

iShadowHeartJan 18, 20151 votes

His early game is way too good, the power spike when he hits 6 would be insane. Not disagreeing with you here, just what I think the reason is

Maple CrusaderJan 18, 20151 votes

It wouldn't hurt to give Garen's ult a reduced cooldown. He also needs his ult's description updated as well. The current text for the ability's damage is too vague.