The only thing planned for Sona is more nerfs- if she gets attention at all, apparently

1000angrybees··88 votes·8,202 views

"As for his thoughts on Sona and if she will be getting any buffs in the near future, Meddler commented:

Preseason's also increased her effectiveness a noticeable amount, so if we felt compelled to make balance adjustments to her I'd imagine they'd be nerfs not buffs. There are certainly some supports that are more dominant overall, we've either just nerfed, or are in the process of nerfing, those that are over the line though (some of whom will probably need further work too - looking at you Brand)."

I fucking LAUGHED at that. I'm honestly not surprised that she'd get more nerfs, based on her track record. I know that Sona has improved because of the preseason changes- what with the increased mana regen on both her and support items, the overall value and utility of said items, and the new masteries that allow her to become a decent choice and whatnot. (and I greatly appreciate these changes)

But the fact that only MORE nerfs would be coming is just asinine. I mean, christ, what else could you do to this poor girl? Lower her damage even further? Make the heal and shield even worse? Make her speed boost rank up with .5% instead of 1%? Up her already ridiculous Ult CD? Please. She can hardly fit anymore bullshit into an already filled basket.

and by the way, in capitalized and bolded text for your convenience:

I AM NOT ASKING FOR BUFFS. I AM SAYING MORE NERFS DO NOT HELP THE STATE OF THIS CHAMP. (She should probably just be reworked again, if anything)

Edit #2: Apparently I literally have to spell it out for some of you. If a champ cannot be properly balanced with number tweaks, they need to be changed. This is what is happening with Leblanc, with Akali, and also what happened with old Poppy (who was still broken anyway), so on and so forth.

jesus, here comes god damn Edit #3: I don't think she's totally unsatisfying to play right now. I think she's a decent pick right now. But she still has problems that cannot be solved by simple tuning. She has a large dependency on AP for a support. She has little to no CC outside of her ult, so she's still somewhat of an ult bot, but would probably be a little much if she had access to CC, not to mention there's no where to put it so it's not point and click. She has mediocre bases and ratios, but if they were higher, she becomes more and more overbearing as a whole. She's extremely frail and extremely slow, but they don't want her to be tanky in the slightest because of her sustain (which isn't very good rn anyway). She has a plethora of problems that you can't address with just nerfs.

369 Comments

BastionKross58 votes

So Sona doesn't feel rewarding to play, but she can't be buffed because she'd be too dominating.

Wasn't this the exact situation the Sona rework was supposed to prevent? I guess Riot needs to send her back to the rework factory once more.

Aeolian Melodies15 votes

{quoted}

So Sona doesn't feel rewarding to play, but she can't be buffed because she'd be too dominating.

Wasn't this the exact situation the Sona rework was supposed to prevent? I guess Riot needs to send her back to the rework factory once more.

Nah they reworked her because they loathed auras and they also nerfed her damage hard in the process for good measure.

Ulquiorra99510 votes

Sona's rework was almost as good as Cassiopeia's rework. Cass was reworked for being too much of a lane bully and ended up nerfed into the ground post rework... for being too much of a lane bully. Meanwhile Sona got reworked because of too much "passive power" and somehow ended up with even less active power than before.

Sona Ping16 votes

{quoted}

Wasn't this the exact situation the Sona rework was supposed to prevent?

Not in the least. According to Riot, they said the reason for her rework was that her kit was too passive, lacking any excitement or high points in play. In terms of champion strength, they explicitly stated that it was only ever middling. Other Rioters have repeated this, saying Sona just walked back and forth, passively increasing AR&MR or AD and that was the extent of her effective choices.

Heckin Support8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2015-12-14T04:13:12.915+0000)

Not in the least. According to Riot, they said the reason for her rework was that her kit was too passive, lacking any excitement or high points in play. In terms of champion strength, they explicitly stated that it was only ever middling. Other Rioters have repeated this, saying Sona just walked back and forth, passively increasing AR&MR or AD and that was the extent of her effective choices.

Ooh, its a lot more exciting now. Pressing wqeqwewqewqeqwewq in teamfights and throwing a clutch ult every now and then. Very intuitive.

Sona is my most played and loved support. I have asked many times (and been downvoted into oblivion) for a Sona mini rework. She is just not as satisfying as like a thresh or a tahm who can clutch save many people. Her poke is who she is and that shouldn't be who she is. To me she should be a huge teamfight oriented support who buffs her team with the rallying cry of her music. Not a glorified mage support with sub-par heals and a speed up that goes up 1% per level...

MrSexyHobo6 votes

i think they focused 2 much on making her animations for her auras cool and not enough on the actually abilities. I remember an interview where a rioter said she FEELS more influential because when you cast abilities you get to see the bright pretty colors. This is paraphrasing but still i thought it was funny.

Penguin Eclipse7 votes

{quoted}

i think they focused 2 much on making her animations for her auras cool and not enough on the actually abilities. I remember an interview where a rioter said she FEELS more influential because when you cast abilities you get to see the bright pretty colors. This is paraphrasing but still i thought it was funny.

There is no way to make her current abilities both feel good and be good for the game health/balance. And they will not even try until she gets reworked again.

Just Blame Jenny17 votes

As a Sona main, I am going to reveal the super secret trick to not getting crapped on by her in lane.

Hit her back.

The Bíg Ticket16 votes

Sona has a 55% winrate atm...I don't get you people. Always asking to buff champs who are fine or even strong just because you find them hot/cute/kawaii or whatever. Reminds me of the people who kept asking for Lux buffs.

1000angrybees14 votes

I didn't ask to buff her, did I? I said it's stupid to keep hounding her with nerfs. Maybe if they had reworked her properly, they wouldn't have to constantly jab at her with nerfs.

The Bíg Ticket5 votes

If a champion is too strong, he/she needs nerfs. I agree the Sona rework was dumb but it doesn't change the fact that she is really strong right now.

1000angrybees18 votes

'really strong right now'

as strong as a wet napkin supplemented by a bandaid holding a weight.

PDE5 Inhibitors32 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:14:31.834+0000)

I don't get you people. Always asking to buff champs who are fine or even strong just because you find them hot/cute/kawaii or whatever.

.

Buff Jax Please

Wut.

The Bíg Ticket7 votes

Jax win rate 47, Sona win rate 55.

Btw that name came from a time where Jax was about the worst champ in the game throughout most of S4 and all of Season 5.

PDE5 Inhibitors33 votes

Jax's playerbase's average games played is 36. Sona's is 100.

It's almost as if the amount of games someone has played with a champ effects their win ratio...hmm...who knew.

Also, Jax mains get up to about 56% win rate with him. Sona mains also sit at about 56%.

But please, act like a business major from Faux News and throw out random stats that you have no clue how to interpret in an attempt to seem logical :)

Aeolian Melodies22 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:14:31.834+0000)

Sona has a 55% winrate atm...I don't get you people. Always asking to buff champs who are fine or even strong just because you find them hot/cute/kawaii or whatever. Reminds me of the people who kept asking for Lux buffs.

No one asked for buffs. We're simply baffled that Meddler stated that if she received any change in the future, they would be her 50th nerf in history.

At this point, she's making the "better nerf Irelia" joke look puny in comparison.

The Bíg Ticket6 votes

The only support with a higher winrate than Sona atm is Brand who is super broken. But Sona is very close to him (55.29% for Brand, 55.09% for Sona). It is true that Sona has an experienced playerbase which makes up for 1-2 percent but she definitely is really strong right now, especially with thunderlords. Nerfs would be ok if her dominance continues though I would wait a couple patches.

Aeolian Melodies22 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:33:46.940+0000)

The only support with a higher winrate than Sona atm is Brand who is super broken. But Sona is very close to him (55.29% for Brand, 55.09% for Sona). It is true that Sona has an experienced playerbase which makes up for 1-2 percent but she definitely is really strong right now, especially with thunderlords. Nerfs would be ok if her dominance continues though I would wait a couple patches.

Her "dominance"?

Please. Let's wait until LCS starts and it's all about Thresh, Tahm and Morg all over again, and tell me about her "dominance".

Dominick Destine15 votes

Win rate argument = Revealing you know nothing about balance

How many times must it be stated that win rate means nothing? (barring edge cases like rework GP 80%+) Lee and Thresh are consistently under 50% win rate and they are two of the most overpowered characters in the game (See: Worlds tournament). Does their under 50% win rate mean they need buffs? no, obviously not.

The Bíg Ticket5 votes

Of course their winrate is below 50% when they are in every game. They are 1st and 3rd most played champs in the entire game. Sona having a 55% winrate means she is too strong, I know she has a rather experienced playerbase which explains a hihger average winrate than 50, but 55 is definitely too much. I know there are lots of players who fap to her but let's be real here.

ZephyrDrake18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:39:26.495+0000)

Of course their winrate is below 50% when they are in every game. They are 1st and 3rd most played champs in the entire game. Sona having a 55% winrate means she is too strong, I know she has a rather experienced playerbase which explains a hihger average winrate than 50, but 55 is definitely too much. I know there are lots of players who fap to her but let's be real here.

sorry but what? Vayne is also in almost every game and she has over 50% winrate. Winrate means nothing, it would also mean that Heimer needs some massive nerfs, except he doesn't need any. Hell Zilean has almost 58% winrate in the mid lane! does that mean that Zilean needs nerfs? how about Volibear who has 56.29% winrate? Teemo has 54.87% winrate in top does he needs nerfs?

Kieferr10 votes

Imma let everyone know I'm one of those players.

Hyrum Graff10 votes

{quoted}

Imma let everyone know I'm one of those players.

Your summoner icon already did :P

MohawkBird4 votes

[deleted]

chipndip14 votes

{quoted}

I actually agree with you here. A lot of people on the "buff" Sona train seem to think that having an intuitive kit means the champion is not good, which simply isn't true. Her statistics say that she is in a fairly decent spot (albeit not the best), and the indirect buffs she has received this preseason helped put her in that spot.

Just because a champion is not interesting doesn't mean they are on the terms for a rework. Hate to break it to some people but that's the thing you sign up for when you play Sona. Not every champion can have a flashy and ridiculously interactive kit. Some kits are meant ot straightforward, and she is the perfect example of a straightforward kit.

Of course a 55% win rate is expected with a dedicated playbase. That I do not agree with.

I want a rework for Sona because I'm tired of Sona topics always devolving into "What should Sona's kit be like?" or "Holy shit Idk how to play against Sona nerf pls" or "I wish we could give Sona her first actual buff outside of normalization...ever...".

Sona's state as a champ is entirely dependent on her environment and not herself. That is horrid design. If the enemy picks hard engage, they can just run your shit into the wall. If Lich Bane, FQC, or Windspeaker's/Thundercaller's ever took a hard hit, she'd lose stats fast. Just before now she was on a 51%-ish win rate with lousy pick rates, teetering just above support Shen, who was just under 3%, with a hugely dedicated player base only contested by support Zyra and support Fiddlesticks. Everyone knew she was shit before the preseason started, and winning with her was a testament to the element of surprise more than anything. Now she's stronger, but her kit has never been buffed outside of normalizing mana costs or mana regen. Now she's facing the possibility of nerfs, but all she's had were slews of nerfs to her own kit due to the strength of items in her environment. Hell, it's not even SUPPORT items that she's using most of the time, save FQC. She's using mid laner items like Lich, Luden's, Mejai's, and D. Cap. Any mage support could just copy this tactic for themselves. Made a thread asking "why not?", and the answer: It's too expensive. So Sona is being punished for sub-optimal builds that any other support could copy, but doesn't because it's not good...yet it's getting Sona nerfed...for something that's said to not even be good to begin with.

Just fucking rework Sona already. This is stupid to deal with.

Penguin Eclipse9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2015-12-14T01:31:26.657+0000)

Win rate argument = Revealing you know nothing about balance

How many times must it be stated that win rate means nothing? (barring edge cases like rework GP 80%+) Lee and Thresh are consistently under 50% win rate and they are two of the most overpowered characters in the game (See: Worlds tournament). Does their under 50% win rate mean they need buffs? no, obviously not.

Winrate does mean something and you know it. If Sona had a 45% winrate right now you would be bitching about it. Don't deny it.

ModAcademy Kayn9 votes

In all fairness, she benefits twice a lot from WindCallers Blessing, getting increased Heals and Sheild on a single ability, not talking as such like Janna who has her heal and shield on two different abilities.

And, this may show some of my bias, but she isn't the hardest champ in the game to pick up, considering her gameplay is "Stand near allies to do good" and "Stand slightly far away from enemies, but close enough to annoy em".

chipndip111 votes

{quoted}

In all fairness, she benefits twice a lot from WindCallers Blessing, getting increased Heals and Sheild on a single ability, not talking as such like Janna who has her heal and shield on two different abilities.

And, this may show some of my bias, but she isn't the hardest champ in the game to pick up, considering her gameplay is "Stand near allies to do good" and "Stand slightly far away from enemies, but close enough to annoy em".

The problem is that the way she is now, if she's decently competitive noobs get stomped even though she's fair, but if Riot saves the noobs she's pretty damn low tier. I still remember when she was pretty much one of the least used supports in season 5 with a pick rate nearing that of the off-meta "Dark Horse" picks like Shen + she had the number 1 or number 2 most dedicated player base for supporting, with only Fiddlesticks support being comparable and Zyra support a tad bit under her. With that shit not even a full season behind us, it's no wonder why Sona mains will get ticked off seeing what Meddler said now.

So yea, when a champ's player base stays loyal through the rough times, they're gonna be way better off when a champ is stronger. Doesn't mean the champ itself is strong more than the itemization/mastery changes Riot made were strong. Just look into FQC and/or WIndspeaker's.

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

Ah, I see what you're saying. The potential "problem" is not that Sona is too strong, it's that Sona Mains have been used to playing her weak, and since masteries have come and given her a lot, they're benefiting just as much. That would be a great point to tell Meddler, since they've been communicating with us a lot more.

Pika3105 votes

Except Meddler's excuse behind Eve's last nerf was that experienced Eve players were more effective at playing her. If you told him that veteran Sona players are more proficient than first-timers, that'll just speed up the time table for her next round of nerfs. Meddler has already stated more than once that he hates Sona, he'll be more than glad to recycle the same excuse, despite getting several dozen downvotes last he used it.

OrigamiCaladrius4 votes

{quoted}

Meddler has already stated more than once that he hates Sona

No he hasn't.

Pika3105 votes

{quoted}

No he hasn't.

Off-hand, I can think of 3 separate occasions where he's openly stated it.

disregardable4 votes

She essentially has no counterplay. Of course she's going to get nothing but nerfs. Look at Evelynn.

1000angrybees15 votes

No counterplay... that's such a joke. She's generally low range (Edit: alright, yes, her two other offensive skills are above 800. Doesn't change that half of her damage comes from AA range), disgusting squishy and slow, and has almost no utility outside of her ult.

disregardable5 votes

LOL her Q* outranges every ADC in the game, and her ultimate is a full team instantly cast stun. But that just screams counterplay, right?

1000angrybees16 votes

Channeled ult*

and no. She needs to get close to do like 50% of her damage so have fun being wrong sweetpea

DokiDokiTodoroki9 votes

"close" 850 q range 550 aa range "close"

1000angrybees7 votes

If you can't find a way to retaliate when she goes in most bot lane champs AA range, that's pretty damn sad.

Steelflame8 votes

Actually, if Sona knows what she is doing, she can't be retaliated on easily. Mostly because her burst pattern in lane takes aprox .2 seconds, and she can do it while you are in the middle of an AA trying to CS. And that is if she isn't going for aggressive burst with AAs, she can still passively harass you down easily over time with Q spam, which isn't that hard to ensure won't hit a minion if she can see both you and your lanemate.

Sona, while weak last season, got a rather massive chunk of buf%%%e with the new mastery trees. Mastery tree which gives her a large chunk of mana regen, amplifed damage for short trades or increased healing/shielding and grants decent chunk of armor/MR (based on preference or knowledge of lane enemies), increased roaming speed, just from one tree? Check. Another Tree which grants her passive hp regen, amplifed self-healing/shielding, lower summoner CDs, and increased move speed in River/bushes? Check. Finally, new FQC which grants insane mana regen, as well as an insanely power pick active, far beyond what she has had access to for an entire season when her biggest limited for the longest time has been mana? Check.

Also, the newly buffed Mejai's/Dark Seal is fairly nice on her. You can grab a Dark Seal if doing ok in lane or are insanely safe due to low risk enemy team, and if you max it's stacks, upgrade it, or just leave it as is, a 400 gold purchase which grants some mana, AP, and stronger potions.

I like Sona, she is one of my fav supports, and I've mained her a few times when she isn't nerfed to absolute shyt tier because I enjoy her kit, but I can understand when her numbers are just too high with what she has access to, and they are right now.

Aeolian Melodies26 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-14T02:17:38.834+0000)

LOL her combo outranges every ADC in the game, and her ultimate is a full team instantly cast stun. But that just screams counterplay, right?

  1. It does not unless you're playing exclusively, idk, Sivir?
  2. Crescendo actually has a cast time AND a travel time. Wanna know who has an instant AoE stun that is impossible to dodge by reaction? Fucking Annie does.
disregardable5 votes

Actually it's Jinx. See name. And yeah that 0.2 second cast time makes the difference. Lol.

chipndip18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-14T02:28:07.214+0000)

Actually it's Jinx. See name. And yeah that 0.2 second cast time makes the difference. Lol.

By level 9, you can trade with the BOLTS of Sona's Q, and you well out-range her AA by level 1 with rockets. I shouldn't be having to tell someone named after Jinx about how to counter Sona's piss poor ranges.

DokiDokiTodoroki11 votes

"piss poor ranges" 850 q range that prioritizes champions and requires no aiming whatsoever Autoattack range (550) is only lower than Caitlyn (The sniper), Tristana (with levels), Jinx (when her basic autoattacks cost mana and shit attack speed), Kogmaw (again, only for a short time when activated), and Twitch (with ult).

chipndip15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Squishy BunBun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=0001000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2015-12-14T05:35:45.403+0000)

"piss poor ranges" 850 q range that prioritizes champions and requires no aiming whatsoever Autoattack range (550) is only lower than Caitlyn (The sniper), Tristana (with levels), Jinx (when her basic autoattacks cost mana and shit attack speed), Kogmaw (again, only for a short time when activated), and Twitch (with ult).

So you're telling me that you're so bad at this game that the bolts of Sona's Q are actually giving you problems?

Is this what we're saying?

Anidan13 votes

What I, as a neutral third party, am getting from this, is that people are defensive of Sona to levels of religious zealotry. He said nothing about actually having troubles, (s)he was pointing out the actual range and then you used a very transparent ad hominem as a retaliation.

Now, do you want to give an actual reply to that person who pointed out the ranges, or are you really going to go out with an ad hominem after being proven wrong about the 'piss poor ranges' in question?

Sona players and defenders are starting to look really, really bad on the boards...

AMYS GRAVE10 votes

I avoid sona threads on general principle now.

OH NO,

http://booklikes.com/upload/post/6/5/azure_6582a1509c098a7d1cd49706b0301971.gif

i'm in one.

Pika3103 votes

Hymn's bolt range is 700 units. This misconception of it being higher than that is getting too widespread. Exactly the reason why I've contacted support 4 times already to fix her champion page that has roughly TEN mistakes on it:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/ctbNtZaf-champion-page-discrepencies-v2

DokiDokiTodoroki4 votes

This is the most constructive comment I've received, and I don't know why you were downvoted. I'll keep that value in mind. Usually I check the wiki for my information.

Audiomancy6 votes

Her Q does, yes. That little blue fart that deals 50 damage.

No, if you want to do something useful as Sona, you need to get into auto attack range, which puts you in danger since a stray breeze could knock her down.

Aeolian Melodies7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shock n Awe,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zI06LYdm,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2015-12-14T03:10:41.293+0000)

Her Q does, yes. That little blue fart that deals 50 damage.

No, if you want to do something useful as Sona, you need to get into auto attack range, which puts you in danger since a stray breeze could knock her down.

with minions involved her Q needs to be in the champ priority range to hit people over creeps, and that range matches her AA range anyways

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