Why are so many people complaining about Mark/Dash?

1000angrybees·Apr 30, 2015·64 votes·7,274 views

Mark/Dash gives a lot of champs the opportunity to not get crushed into submission by poke/harass based champs and team comps and giving them a fair shot. The damage numbers can be tweaked and its not a safe spell to use. There is risk and reward for using it, and no amount of you complaining that a fighter or tank or whoever can get in your face because they hit you with a slow moving snowball from across the lane is going to change that.

Very whiny, especially for a mode that's supposed to be chaotic teamfighting.

(Edit: like I also mentioned in another comment, I am not against the idea of changing the damage numbers or the cooldown, or even the range. I think that'd be fine and dandy; complaining that it lets champs who never had a chance- except if the other team screwed up or they maybe managed to make it to late game and somehow turn it around- isn't very smart.)

127 Comments

Voluug13Apr 30, 201536 votes

Because Poke/Sustain isnt ARAM god anymore, and people who had accounts with only Caitlyn Janna Ezreal Gragas Jinx KogMaw Lux Nidalee Sona Xerath Varus Ziggs are crying because their SS tier picks arent instawin anymore.

All hail Mark/Dash.

Only Play DariusApr 30, 20153 votes

SS?

Nunya BezwacksApr 30, 20156 votes

probably super saiyan...thats the only thing i can think of

MrBuffingtonApr 30, 201510 votes

It's tier list terminology, like A tier, B tier, etc. S is above A, and SS is above S. It basically means god tier

AriafluxMay 1, 201513 votes

I'm really upset how prevalent this accusation is.

As someone who likes to play ARAM but also has Udyr, Singed, Ryze (so much worse than any melee) etc. I do not feel that melees were unviable, in fact, I think most of them were perfectly fine. From the recent games I've played, I've personally carried games with Poppy and Olaf, and I've seen Malphite, Maokai, Nocturne, Mundo carry their teams too. I don't mean just doing OK, I mean without them their team would have lost. Furthermore, one of my quickest loss has been on a team with 4 ADCs and Gragas. If you play enough ARAM, you'll understand that a tanky champion is almost 100% necessary for a win.

While I have not played any ARAM since the addition of the spell, I can definitely understand the frustration that long-time ARAM players have with it, and I agree with it purely from a balance point of view.

tintinchiMay 1, 20158 votes

{quoted} My main complaint is that the range is too long. It allows tanks to engage from waaaaaaaay outside the range of any carry meaning they can just wait out of range until they hit the correct target and go in without any counterplay.

{quoted}one of my quickest loss has been on a team with 4 ADCs and Gragas. If you play enough ARAM, you'll understand that a tanky champion is almost 100% necessary for a win.

While I have not played any ARAM since the addition of the spell, I can definitely understand the frustration that long-time ARAM players have with it, and I agree with it purely from a balance point of view.

If people think ALL POKE TEAM COMPS win automatic, then they don't know anything about ARAM.

People who are bad will lose to these kinds of team comps, but if you build the right items, you will win against them. Once had a game, our team was all poke, enemy was all bruiser/melee---you guessed it, we lost---'cause they know HOW TO PLAY based on enemy/allies' team comp. An all squishy team with lots of poke will die once engaged. And now you got this mark summoner spell. See first quote.

{quoted}

Well, the risk is that every time you don't hit, you take more poke from the enemy... I mean, it's mostly a tool to deal with poke, so that's how I think of it. I realize you're not going to like that response, but at least in theory I think that's the idea.

Except, your snowball's got more range than any champions' poke range, so basically they can't poke back!

ZielmannApr 30, 201521 votes

I'm heavily against the new spell (as implemented), because the game just feels like a gimmicky featured game mode now. And as with all featured game modes, I'd expect that it might be popular at first for the novelty of trying out the new spell (or perhaps nostalgia for people who were fans of Poro King). But interest is going to drop off quickly.

I'm not against the addition of a new spell to help champions that need an extra initiation tool out a bit, but as implemented, it's just a disaster. The combination of the current range and cooldown of the spell is absurd. If they want to allow things like Galio and Amumu ult to have a threat range of 2500, the spell should have a 3-4 minute cooldown, not 20 seconds. On the other hand, if they want the spell to have just a 20-second cooldown, the range should drop significantly. I like the idea of going with something like doubling the cooldown to 40 seconds, and halving the range to 1250. Heck, I'll even go with rounding up to 1300 for that.

The spell is zero-risk with high-reward, which is pretty awful for a game mechanic. Missed one? Oh well, try again in 20 seconds. No big deal. The best way to use the spell is pretty much to just spam it on cooldown and see what you hit.

There's also the fact that the particle is rather difficult to see. It's a snowball. On a snowy bridge. It blends rather well.

Ice Weasel XMay 1, 201521 votes

{quoted}

Mark/Dash gives a lot of champs the opportunity to not get crushed into submission by poke/harass based champs and team comps and giving them a fair shot. The damage numbers can be tweaked and its not a safe spell to use. There is risk and reward for using it, and no amount of you complaining that a fighter or tank or whoever can get in your face because they hit you with a slow moving snowball from across the lane is going to change that.

Very whiny, especially for a mode that's supposed to be chaotic teamfighting.

(Edit: like I also mentioned in another comment, I am not against the idea of changing the damage numbers or the cooldown, or even the range. I think that'd be fine and dandy; complaining that it lets champs who never had a chance- except if the other team screwed up or they maybe managed to make it to late game and somehow turn it around- isn't very smart.)

From what I've seen, the majority of people who are strong advocates of the current Mark/Dash are those who play ARAM primarily for a change of pace from Summoner's Rift. The majority of people who absolutely loathe Mark/Dash are those who play ARAM very frequently. There are outliers, of course.

I've long since switched from Summoner's Rift to Howling Abyss as a primary game mode. I'm not an ARAM smurf. While I rarely play normals anymore, I don't have my champion list customized for ARAM exploitation. I don't own Ziggs (don't think I've ever played him, actually; I trade him every time free rotation gives him to me for the novelty of never using him), Jayce, Caitlyn, Heimerdinger, Ezreal, Kog'Maw, Zyra, Amumu, Karthus, Xerath, Nidalee, Corki, or several other "must have" ARAM champs. The cheese tier champs I do have were from my days of learning how to play on Summoner's Rift - Sona, Fiddlesticks, Ashe, Annie (I don't even like her, and end up with her too often), Katarina, Leona, Nami, Morgana, Teemo. It's probably a bit obvious that my favorite normal role is support. I don't own many champs that aren't considered viable supports.

Some of my favorite aspects of ARAM:

Random selection of champions can heavily unbalance the matchup. In any discussion about ARAM "balance," I've always been a proponent of keeping it imbalanced, regardless of whether that benefits or hinders any individual game. The people who complain the hardest about "always" getting a bad comp typically just forget that they have also had overpowered comps. This is a similar phenomenon to what Lyte has addressed with people primarily remembering their bad games and forgetting that they have had just as many (or more) neutral or positive games.
If we've got an advantage, cool. Blow 'em up. If we still get torn up, kudos for the other team.
If we've got the melee comp vs. the Sona/Zyra/Heimerdinger/Teemo/Katarina team, cool. We'll probably get eaten, but I'm not going down without a fight.
If the teams have pretty fair comps, cool. Games ending with neither Nexus at full HP can be pretty exhilarating.
There was often enough time before the first fights started to fiddle with emotes at mid-bridge. I don't mean animation-canceling emote spam. I'm talking about that semi-spontaneous dance party or /joke exhibition that occurred in view of both teams. This didn't always happen, but it was pretty common.
You could usually take a breather to type if both teams had separated. Global ults were the exception to this.
Full builds happened more frequently than on Summoner's Rift.
Unlike Summoner's Rift, there's not really a laning phase in Howling Abyss. You either hop right into teamfights or hug the turret until 6 to launch an ult-reliant assault. You're still farming a little, but the limited minions aren't the primary source of gold due to map-specific gold generation and teamfights. Ganks aren't a thing.
Unlike Summoner's Rift, your actions in fights are visible to everyone without having to scan the map. Obviously, people still play the blame game, but it's a lot more obvious when someone's being falsely accused.

How Mark/Dash has changed things:

There is no breathing room.
- That mid-bridge goofing off? That doesn't happen anymore. Snowballs start flying as soon as you get past your outer turret.
- There's too much shit in the air, constantly.
- "Just dodge the snowball." Yeah, no. If 5 enemies throw their snowballs simultaneously, someone's getting hit. If they space out their snowballs, that's not 4 seconds of clear air. It's not like the snowballs are the only things flying. That's 5 additional enemy projectiles in the air.
- I'm one of those people with a propensity to lose sight of objects on the screen. Where's my pointer? Where's my champ? If both teams are throwing snowballs, that's 10 additional objects obscuring my focus every 20 seconds.
- If everyone dashes, that can be more than 20 additional objects flying across the screen every 20 seconds
- Think it's safe to type a message because you're far behind your team? Nope. Don't stop to type. You'll get hit and possibly jumped as a followup.
Teams can snowball (seriously...) harder than before. The constant long range true damage barrage from 5 sources means a team with an early advantage can keep that advantage by not allowing the weaker team to recover. Both teams have snowballs? If one team is over 50% HP per player and the other is below 25%, guess who is more likely to land hits? It's the team that isn't being zoned. I was in a game where my team did this to the other team, resulting in an early tower because they couldn't get close enough to it to defend.
Howling Abyss now revolves more around a Summoner Spell than champion differences.

I've seen people argue that people who don't like Mark/Dash should just not take it. That's not much of an option. Forgoing Mark/Dash means that I'm giving the other team a ranged true damage advantage over me.

Most melee champs have some sort of gap closer. Leona is a strong tank whose gap closer is only 875 range. Amumu's range is 1100. Nobody's arguing that they need help in the gap closing department. Why is Mark's range 2500? The fact that Mark has a longer range than all non-ult abilities doesn't just make melee champs able to dive where they previously couldn't. It lets ranged champs apply true damage where they previously couldn't.

What was previously a fun mode is now a stressful one. High stress modes are fun, but are best suited to temporary exposure (e.g., URF). I don't play ARAM for stress.

Hypothetical situation (I don't have the numbers to prove this, just offering this as something to consider)

Given the following player groups:

Group 1: Summoner's Rift mains who play ARAM 1-5 times a week
Group 2: ARAM mains who play ARAM 20+ times a week

Would it be healthier for the game mode to keep a feature that Group 1 felt made the mode "incredibly fun" even though they still only played a few games weekly if the majority of Group 2 felt it ruined the mode for them?

freeformlineMay 1, 20153 votes

Thanks for writing all this out! This is a fine summary of most of my feelings on the subject of Mark/Dash. Mark/Dash is certainly a fun mechanic, and made for an excellent game mode in Legend of the Poro King, but I do not believe it has a place on ARAM in its current state, since it is so powerful that it completely transforms ARAM gameplay and strategy. Put on a long cooldown or even worked into an item active, I think it could be a tolerable addition to the mode to help melee champs get the engage they need to deal with skillful poke teams, but for now it is making ARAM almost unrecognizable, which is unfortunate for those of us who enjoy playing the mode seriously.

Zelgoth0002May 1, 20158 votes

I am part of group 1, and I HATE this summoners spell. I play Aram to skip the laning phase and just play a team fight game mode, where I can play a random champ and work on team fight positioning and builds.

What am I learning or improving on now? Nothing, because tank and short range burst champs no longer need to be good at positioning and working with team mates to get close to you. They just need a super short CD SUMMONER spell that they can spam.

Dodge it you say? Well yes, I could, but there are 4 more and they have like a 20 second CD.

It needs to be removed in my opinion, as it kills what aram should be. The other fixes that would help (since I'm betting Riot will not remove it) are:

REMOVING the damage- why does a gap closing summoner spell need true damage, or any damage at all?
Shorten the range- see above post, Ice Weasel X has this covered.
Dramatically increace CD- right now, you just have to spam it and wait to hit, if its going to stay, it needs to have a more skill aspect in landing it. Something more then "Just spam it until it lands Poppy, you got this."

ZielmannMay 1, 201512 votes

This is a great analysis. Ex-Group 2 player, here. Up until the patch, I'd been playing several ARAMs just about every day. After several matches since the change, I've grown tired of the mode already. I've been playing ARAM for around 5 years, and I suddenly get tired of it after a matter of days from this change going in.

I especially like the point about the mode now being more about a summoner spell than anything else. Yes, the composition still matters. But while playing, you do tend to be focusing most on throwing or avoiding snowballs, rather than actually playing the game.

By biggest worry is that Riot will look at the statistics and see "Oh, the new spell upped the win rate for x number of melee champions. Success!" and do nothing about it. With a little thought about how they were going to implement the spell, and what it means to the gameplay itself, they could have released a version of the spell that helped out just as many champions, while not changing the entire feel of the game.

AuryielApr 30, 201516 votes

Because it's overpowered?

Don't get me wrong, I love that this spell has been introduced. ARAM needed this pretty badly. But it IS overpowered.

Old Man TeetoMay 1, 20155 votes

In a game mode where champions physically cannot flank the unending siege, it's as necessary as Righteous Glory is on Summoner's Rift.

ZielmannMay 1, 20154 votes

It just needs toned down. I wouldn't be complaining about it if Riot had seemed to put any actual effort into adjusting the spell before release. I like the idea of something existing to help champs that need it. But the current implementation is completely wrong.

EfficientDynamoMay 1, 20151 votes

Agreed. I completely agree with the sentiment that ARAM benefits from this spell, but it should probably have its cooldown and/or range reduced. Especially considering it offers so much offensive and defensive utility.

Der GrauMay 1, 20153 votes

Definitely range reduced. Being able to poke from behind my tower as someone like rammus feels kinda cheap.

Circuit BearMay 1, 201516 votes

I think there are two problems, one of which I will address first and not pay as much attention too.

First, Aram's culture has always favored poke characters. That is just how it is, this dynamically forces that entire "meta" so to speak of Aram to change. This wouldn't usually be a problem except point 2

Second, the summoner is kinda ridiculous in its current version. And no I don't mean, just because people came jump on you as tanks. Here are the ways those I have spoken with find it frustrating.

-True damage scaling to level ranged attack with the range of a nidalee spear. Obviously, this is a problem if everyone suddenly has nidalee spear like true damage shots -Cooldown is so short wukong can use it easily to poke, with clone to screw with the opponent, and regen through warmogs then just do it again and poke them down in the most bizarre fashion through a sort of half initiation and walk away. This wouldn't really be a problem except it leaves no reason to commit. You can go in, pop spells, then use any mobility you had to just leave since you didn't need to use it before. Zed is absurdly frustrating in this regard along with Kat. -visibility is awful. Half the time it blends into the background on my screen. The clarity is awful and since you have to dodge it so much, it should be more visible -Those with mobility already make them even stupider(Zed, hit snowball, throw shadow, jumpt to snowball, use combo, pop to shadow seven miles away) -There is no real counter. If you could cleanse or anything it it would be less frustrating. Spellshield doesn't do anything.

Drunk RummateApr 30, 201513 votes

I play a lot of ARAM so I have a big stake in this.

My main complaint is that the range is too long. It allows tanks to engage from waaaaaaaay outside the range of any carry meaning they can just wait out of range until they hit the correct target and go in without any counterplay.

I think the range needs to be ~600 and not let you travel to minions personally. Maybe increase the cooldown but I'd start with just the range change. That would seriously improve my attitude towards the ability.

Also there's one major complaint I have regarding the Mark - Some champions were literally not designed to have access to that kind of mobility. Take Galio for example - there's no way it's balanced for Galio to have that sort of initiation in such a cramped lane. He was already oppressively strong in ARAM without this, but now he's actually broken.

Dr PoroApr 30, 20157 votes

You're an ARAM main and complaining about balance? This update brought ARAM to the most balanced state it has ever been. Not quite the balance of Summoner's rift where each champion is getting tweaked constantly, but atleast each class is viable at the moment. The first good update was the extra healing reduction on allies and the removal of self healing reduction which balanced the healing part. This update balances out the poking part.

I'm fine with nerfing the damage and/or range as it was originally made for a fun mode (which ironically turned out to be a more balanced version of ARAM), but 600 seems a bit short.

And yes, this summoner spell is incredibly OP, but that what bruisers needed to become viable. I can see ranged champions picking up this spell just for the damage it deals, but that's fine because it still benefits melees more, just like heal used to be picked up by everyone but benefits some champs more than others (unfortunately, not the right group).

Drunk RummateApr 30, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hv64q62O,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-04-30T21:02:24.947+0000)

You're an ARAM main and complaining about balance? This update brought ARAM to the most balanced state it has ever been.

I'd say that's extremely debatable. It hasn't made the mode more balanced, it's merely shifted the favor of balance towards a different champion composition. You say that each champion class is 'viable' at the moment, but really it's all compositionally based just as every ARAM has ever been.

Without snowball, tanky teams had huge windows of opportunity in the midgame once the first 1-2 towers fell and they had a couple of defensive items built. With the extra space to chase kiting enemies down and the lack of armor/magic pen items they generally had about 8-15 minutes of absolute dominance outside of nexus tower range.

With snowball, that 8-15 minutes of dominance becomes absolutely unstoppable because with 1-2 towers down from each team and a 3000 range engage tool there's nothing a squishy champion can do to defend himself if Leona just snowballs the minion wave and ults all 5 of you in the narrow corridor while you're all shoving each other to get out of the way.

I think a much better way to improve the viability of tanky frontliners is to simply widen the bridge. Allow more room to dodge skill shots and less chances to be body blocked by your own teammates.

KrofinnApr 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I'd say that's extremely debatable. It hasn't made the mode more balanced, it's merely shifted the favor of balance towards a different champion composition. You say that each champion class is 'viable' at the moment, but really it's all compositionally based just as every ARAM has ever been.

Without snowball, tanky teams had huge windows of opportunity in the midgame once the first 1-2 towers fell and they had a couple of defensive items built. With the extra space to chase kiting enemies down and the lack of armor/magic pen items they generally had about 8-15 minutes of absolute dominance outside of nexus tower range.

With snowball, that 8-15 minutes of dominance becomes absolutely unstoppable because with 1-2 towers down from each team and a 3000 range engage tool there's nothing a squishy champion can do to defend himself if Leona just snowballs the minion wave and ults all 5 of you in the narrow corridor while you're all shoving each other to get out of the way.

This.

CindikleApr 30, 20158 votes

Because they didn't do it right.

The idea of the ability itself is fine.

But it doesn't need that kind of range on a 20s CD Lee Sin dash that also makes you untargetable while you're dashing.

The snowball range and the dash range should be closer to Lee's. Maybe a little less. It's supposed to help those who need it and create more options.

Also, ARAM is about getting a random comp and make it work. Not about chaotic teamfighting. Although that's and added bonus when both teams are not scared to fight. I prefer to think of it as SR without the boring stuff. I don't care that Skarner can now jump to me, ult me and get my killed when I play something with range. I have a problem they can do this from over a screen away every 20 seconds.

Greatly reduce the range on both the mark and the dash. Increase the CD to 60s, returning 30s if you use the dash.

IxlinApr 30, 20157 votes

People are upset, because quite a few of them played mostly ARAM. There was in fact a strange balance to it. In terms of champion functionality, this is a nuclear bomb. Changes everything.

GoAltF4Apr 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

People are upset, because quite a few of them played mostly ARAM. There was in fact a strange balance to it. In terms of champion functionality, this is a nuclear bomb. Changes everything.

the only reason why those people are upset is due to the fact that they ONLY play aram, meaning the only champs they have is lux, nid, yi, etc etc

FoidewallMay 1, 20155 votes

Where did you get the idea, that us who like and enjoy this game mode only play poke champs, we dont well most of us dont, in my opinion the amount of people who actually has made a aram only accaount ar far smaller than people think, but the fact that you can rerolle the champ you get, makes it much more likely to come against a poke comp, becouse its the comp whose winning condition is the easyest to grasp.

MigrañaboyMay 1, 20157 votes

Why are so many people complaining about Mark/Dash?

We used to protest against aram smurfs and having to face heavy AP comps, but since nidalee, ziggs, jayce nerfs and the introduction of rightous glory, it wasn't anymore necessary, just play carefully with correct with spacing. People really underestimate this item and the horn, the only problem you need to deal is for your team mates to follow you. To play tanks is to rely on others, meanwhile poking isn't that much of a brainer.
Large range and low CD really enable tanks, first I can think is of Swain. Because of such small cd, it encourages people to go tank and keep snowballs comming.
Loved that I could team fight all time as SR, but without the burden of solo-laning. Now I get a really different experience that now centers at dodging a really low cd, long range game changing skillshot.
Really, would bother if 1 or 2 guys playing tanks with this skill, but 3-5? Sometimes facing really long team fights, lol wut.

Practically I didn't like the idea that the dynamics were really changed with just one skill. If we are going to keep this dynamic, increase the cooldown and reduce the range, make the decision to cast this spell as something meaningful.

DrCyanideApr 30, 20156 votes

I honestly don't get the complaints either, but I've only had time to play one ARAM this patch.

I think some complaints are based around the fact that it's a summoner spell with a cooldown comparable to a normal ability, but that's the only way that the ability makes sense in the game. It can't have a 5 minute cooldown for what it is.

1000angrybeesApr 30, 20156 votes

I can understand the complaints that it might do a little more damage at the start than its supposed to, and that the cooldown is very short for a spell. But yeah, complaining that everyone gets a fair shot because it mixes up the former "poke the shit out of the enemy team and win" strategy is incredibly short-sighted.

PahimakasMay 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I can understand the complaints that it might do a little more damage at the start than its supposed to, and that the cooldown is very short for a spell. But yeah, complaining that everyone gets a fair shot because it mixes up the former "poke the shit out of the enemy team and win" strategy is incredibly short-sighted.

hoenstly, where were these people when it was introduced in the League of the Poro king game? honestly, people thought it was "ok" for it to be in that game mode but not in ARAM? When i played LotPK, i thought that is the spell that ARAM needed to help with tanks and melee champions to help engage. Most of the game is them sitting behind minions or as a sitting duck and not helping against poke champs. Then the team cries that they are worthless and it is gg. wth.

BoltCasterLegionMay 2, 20155 votes

To be fair, PoroKing was not random pick - you got to choose your champions/teamcomps and who you thought might synergize well with mark/dash.

MiniJunkieMay 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, PoroKing was not random pick - you got to choose your champions/teamcomps and who you thought might synergize well with mark/dash.

Good point.

For me it's not so much what it does (allows Tanks/Bruisers to engage really easily but also gives that ability to strong champs like Fiddle's ult etc), it's more that the whole match feels like a snowball spam fest now and that's not really much fun. It became a snowball fight, rather than an ARAM match with the snowballs as a tactical factor. CD is way, way too short on it.

ModKnightsKemplarApr 30, 20156 votes

From what I can see, it seems like people are more upset because of the abuse of certain champs. There are some champions who really need the risk of poke to prevent them from roflstomping you. I mean, Galio is only balanced normally because he can't suddenly end up in the middle of your team and ult. Now that he can...

I've also heard complaints about Katarina and Yi, I assume because it gives them an extra gap closer. Admittedly, I can agree that's a little silly.

To me, mark/dash is still okay because it isn't guaranteed. You can dodge it, and that makes all the difference. I have yet to play an ARAM with it, but that's my understanding of the detractor's side.

ZielmannApr 30, 201524 votes

You dodge the spell. It hits your teammate standing next to you. Galio still ends up on your face even though you did everything you were supposed to do. "Then your teammate sucked and they should have dodged it, too," you say? Next time around, you dodge, but the snowball hit a minion behind you. Galio yet again still ends up on your face with an ult. FYI, minions won't dodge crap.

This is the most shortsighted argument in justification of the current balance of the spell that there could be.

I'm not against the spell existing in ARAM. But it needs to be tuned so that it's a viable option for champions who need it, without being absurdly powerful.

GavranMay 1, 20151 votes

Nothing at ALL like uhh I dunno Ziggs Q? Fiddlesticks E? Jayce Q?

ZielmannMay 1, 20157 votes

Those don't allow a Galio to suddenly appear right on top of you to ult and hold you there while the rest of his team jumps in. Or an Alistar flying into your face to pulverize and then headbutt you back into his team every time.

PokladnicaZlaMay 1, 20157 votes

The only problem I have with it is its low CD.

BiffoloApr 30, 20156 votes

{quoted}

From what I can see, it seems like people are more upset because of the abuse of certain champs. There are some champions who really need the risk of poke to prevent them from roflstomping you. I mean, Galio is only balanced normally because he can't suddenly end up in the middle of your team and ult. Now that he can...

I've also heard complaints about Katarina and Yi, I assume because it gives them an extra gap closer. Admittedly, I can agree that's a little silly.

To me, mark/dash is still okay because it isn't guaranteed. You can dodge it, and that makes all the difference. I have yet to play an ARAM with it, but that's my understanding of the detractor's side.

I'm not a big aram guy, and I do like the concept, but there is one thing that I can see with it. With it's stupid high range, and relatively short cd, where is the risk involved?

ModKnightsKemplarMay 1, 20151 votes

Well, the risk is that every time you don't hit, you take more poke from the enemy... I mean, it's mostly a tool to deal with poke, so that's how I think of it. I realize you're not going to like that response, but at least in theory I think that's the idea.

ZielmannMay 1, 20154 votes

With nearly double the range of a nidalee spear, there really is no risk of being poked for throwing out a snowball and missing it.

ScarabAPAMay 1, 20155 votes

How exactly do you take more poke if you miss??? You just throw it from 1/2 - 2 screens away and run backwards if you miss. Wait 20 seconds and throw another one. This was supposed to be the anti-poke, but you just gave more poke to the poke champions as well as the tanks. We had an Annie in game that used it very effectively to engage the fight; she just had to hit something close by (many times a minion).

BiffoloMay 1, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Well, the risk is that every time you don't hit, you take more poke from the enemy... I mean, it's mostly a tool to deal with poke, so that's how I think of it. I realize you're not going to like that response, but at least in theory I think that's the idea.

Well, that is fair enough in theory, but in pracitce it dosen't play out like that. I'm not for or against tanks on aram, just trying to objectively look at the way the spell is. It seems like with the range it has, the windows are too short to do something about it.

their genitalsMay 1, 20156 votes

I think it is complete bs. i get they want to make sustain/poke champs less op, but this makes burst champs the new op. they didn't fix anything. i don't want a snowball instead of a poro. yeah the poro thing was great and fun but now it's instawin if you have burst champs who before had to play smart, now they are always in your face. take it off plz or at the very least it should be 3x the range of flash. once again riot disappoints by making a new genre of champs op rather than actually fixing the problem. they once again too the cheap and easy way out. Pathetic. I am never playing aram again until the nerf it or take it out. aram is meant to be chaotic yes , but not with the same champ in your face all the time and you never being able to do anything.

Repta21May 8, 20151 votes

Look if you can dodge a Ezreal Q, you can dodge a snowball. It is about time the poke champions learn to dodge some skill shots for a change. Thank you Riot for this AWESOME new summoner spell. Also makes the games way less boring from people just sitting by their towers now they cant without risk of getting hit by a slow moving snowball and again just stand behind minions. You can clearly see icon when you get hit and just get ready to stay from that person or minion. Nothing was worse than all melee team against all poke. Not anymore again thanks Riot!!!

Berry ÁllenApr 30, 20155 votes

Honestly with this addition to aram I have seen A LOT less toxic people and my god is it nice to actually enjoy aram without someone on your team or the enemy just being god awfully annoying and rude. It is also a lot more exciting than each team just sitting back a turret, its like constant team fighting now and its awesome. But yeah the cooldown and range needs to be fixed, other than that its so great! You go snowball summoner 31

Circuit BearMay 1, 20158 votes

Opposite for me. More people are being prissy. "Why aren't you taking the snowball" and such flaming on characters like Caitlynn or ryze. Average of 7 people taking the snowball every game. People raging about the snowball, full tank teams that just feel miserable to play against. Things like that in almost every game I played.

MiniJunkieMay 1, 20154 votes

Really not a fan of the change. I have played about 3000 matches of ARAM (it's the only mode I play) - and I own almost all the champions so I don't have an "ARAM mains" account or anything like that. I guess I count as "Group 2" in the thread. It's what League is for me (I don't play SR - matches are too long).

For me it just changed the feel of ARAM way, way too much. It fixed something that wasn't broken. Now I'm seeing melee zooming all over the map and snowballs in the air every few seconds. It's really killing my interest in ARAM which IMO was a superb game play mode as it was. Yes, certain champs were not very viable (the ones that had no easy gap close like Udyr etc) and some are ridiculously powerful (hi Sona) - but this change is too drastic and as one poster said, makes it feel gimmicky. My personal suggestion would be either remove it or put it on a much longer cooldown like flash and barrier.

{quoted}

I'm not here because I simply hate change. I'm not here as a complaining ARAM smurf (this is my only account and it's most definitely not an ARAM smurf). I'm here because I genuinely don't like what the new spell has done to the game. It's not fun anymore. It's just total chaos now. After several games since the patch, I've already grown tired of it, which is something that never happened with ARAM before. I've been enjoying ARAMs for about 5 years now, and they make this one major change and I grow tired of it in a matter of days. That, to me, is a problem.

This, exactly this.

TBH I suspect the only way I can try to have an impact is basically stop playing and hope their game telemetry picks up enough Group 2 players "stopping" that they realize they messed up a popular mode. Then come back when they fix it.

SomeLinkMay 1, 20154 votes

Group 2 player here, somewhere around 60 champs, 1800ish games played in Aram. (Probably 400 in bots, 100 in normals, 20? in ranked.)

Mark/Dash gives too much power to be allowed to stay in it's present state.

HeraldOfDemaciaMay 1, 20153 votes

People are not complaining about the addition of the feature itself, rather at the unbalance that comes along with it. If/when the spell is tuned then people will stop complaining, and ARAM will become its usual happyfuntime-self again.

Only A SoldierApr 30, 20152 votes

I don't get it ether. Like I understand thats its on kind of a low cooldown for what it does so maybe it should be nerfed a bit. But seriously, DODGE. THE FUCKING. SNOWBALL.

AtheosisXApr 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't get it ether. Like I understand thats its on kind of a low cooldown for what it does so maybe it should be nerfed a bit. But seriously, DODGE. THE FUCKING. SNOWBALL.

Cool story. But with many champs if your nearby teammate gets hit you are likely to die as well. Galio, Kat, Wukong, the list goes on and on...