Zed is probably the most balanced mid in the game.

1000angrybees··73 votes·5,605 views

Is what I would say if his ult wasnt disgustingly obnoxious and his wave clear and pushing power weren't so good for an assassin. (which, if I remember correctly, shouldn't have such potential?) When will riot actually acknowledge that he isn't fun to play against? Even pre-6 I'm wary of him. As soon as 6 hits, I know that he's eventually going to tower dive me with virtually no repercussions, no matter what items or cc I have.

He should also get a special title for holding the most wet noodle of a nerf I've ever seen in this game too. He's like a Lee Sin Jr.

149 Comments

SH Azykan15 votes

Chogath

Cho exists for a reason, learn him and eat the Zed :D

Edit Adding on: I did not expect a conversation to stem from this at all. I know Cho'gath beats Zed in lane but it was mostly posted as a joke (since Cho'gath you know, eats things with his ult...)

Sona Ping1 votes

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. Regular mage types already seem to have the choice of either: quietly be pelted with infinite shurikens on cooldown till they are forced to base or quickly run themselves OoM by even attempting to trade the damage back. Cho'Gath's mana consumption issues are even greater than those guys.

Aych Pii13 votes

There's something profoundly agonizing about realizing that you won a damage trade with Zed by a small amount, putting both of you at around 2/3 health but you a little higher.

...and then you look at your mana bar and realize you can't do it again.

...and then his shuriken comes off cooldown again and you have to start dodging.

ChaoticPinecone5 votes

Cho gath is one of the few that can stand toe-to-toe without having to outplay your opponent.

Zed's abilities are pretty weak early. Chos passive can fend off most harass Q/E harass, especially with Butcher/Feast in the offensive tree. And even if he hits you with Q/E, if you can hit your E you win the trade. Cho gath should generally max E.

If Zed goes agressive, you E him. Cho only goes OOM when he spams the Q or uses E to farm. its almost never worth the mana to get a hopeful knockup unless zed already used his shadow and you tagged him with the E silence already, and he hasnt hit 6. dont waste the E to farm - use it to harass.

after 6, if he ults you, wait JUST a moment and Q under yourself, E and Ult. One combo will kill him. Once you get a item 3027 , he has no kill pressure on you IF you can land the silence. Cho Gaht's scalings are so high that you can have kill pressure on him getting a second item item 3157 - you can kill him all game prior to item 3026.

HeWolf7 votes

Replace every E this guy said with a W and everything is okay.

ChaoticPinecone4 votes

damn. didnt event notice that i mixed up his spells. lol

Nucleophilic atk35 votes

Champ having counters =/= champ is OK balance wise.

Auz the Ripper4 votes

Yep This ain't DotA Counter picking is not a legitimate strategy

mi ramfan29 votes

[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pezQ0V8f,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-04-22T12:35:46.085+0000)

Yep This ain't DotA Counter picking shouldn't be the only legitimate strategy

Fixed.

TomA3X5 votes

How can you even say that, when there are two items that directly negate his R.

AMYS GRAVE12 votes

Zed is not his ultimate, he has so many more tools and so little of his power budget is tied up in his R thanks to its counterability.

Daen6 votes

While this is true, the rest of his tools rely on him either being in melee range (risky, especially since Zed is very squishy) or landing simultaneous skillshots from different angles to conserve his energy. He has very clear windows of opportunity, namely when his shadow is down. That gives you 14-18 seconds of time where he can't use his regeneration mechanics, enhance his damage against you, or be tricksy.

AMYS GRAVE12 votes

Oh my there are several common misconceptions about zed here.

Zed is very squishy

Zed has higher than average base health, base armor, base MR, base health regen, scaling armor, scaling MR, and scaling health regen. If he's squishy it's because of how you build him. He has all the tools necessary to not be squishy. The fact that he is commonly built glass cannon is a choice not inherent to the champion.

landing simultaneous skillshots from different angles to conserve his energy.

His energy returns proc on minions so getting the energy returns are not dependent on him hitting the enemy champions with his skillshots.

He has very clear windows of opportunity, namely when his shadow is down. That gives you 14-18 seconds of time where he can't use his regeneration mechanics, ...

Nope, If he uses his weq combo, sure his shadow is down for a while, but even if he uses his eq while it's down and then when his shadow is up again he can weq, eq, weq etc... he can keep that up for 1:45 without going ooe. His energy regeneration comes from his shadow, but his energy costs are low enough (when compared to other energy users) to ensure that he can sustain his energy while it is down. The energy returns also proc on the shadow from his ult so if he uses that he can spam all his abilities on cooldown indefinitely.

Also the shadow lasts for 4 seconds so the window is only 10-14 seconds not 14-18.

... enhance his damage against you, ...

The passive on his w still applies and enhances his damage rather a lot. If he ults he gets a shadow to enhance his damage, which in turn gets amplified by his ult proc.

... or be tricksy.

His ult still gives him a shadow for an escape, which can also be used to juke very effectively.

So you know even without his damage amplifying, energy returning, mobility granting, relatively low cd, basic ability, he is still quite strong. His kit is just so strong overall with so many tools that it inherently covers almost all of his weaknesses.

Just to be clear though Zed should not be nerfed, numbers are not his problem, he needs a reworked kit that is less overloaded.

Daen1 votes

If he's squishy it's because of how you build him. He has all the tools necessary to not be squishy. The fact that he is commonly built glass cannon is a choice not inherent to the champion.

Zed is extremely reliant on being built glass cannon, and has very little utility that benefits from him being tanky. Zed's entire job is to kill a single target as quickly as possible, if he is having to build defensive items he's probably either doing poorly or so overwhelmingly ahead that it doesn't even matter what he builds.

His energy returns proc on minions so getting the energy returns are not dependent on him hitting the enemy champions with his skillshots.

Zed has to make a decision between guaranteed energy return, pushing, and harrassing his enemy every time he wants to fight. The most optimal harass pattern for Zed is actually to avoid minions entirely, because his Q has maximum damage when it is hitting a champion first.

If his enemy is able to consistently dodge his Q, Zed has very little pressure. He can push hard, but without being able to drop consistent harass he's leaving himself pretty vulnerable to ganks.

If he uses his weq combo, sure his shadow is down for a while, but even if he uses his eq while it's down and then when his shadow is up again he can weq, eq, weq etc... he can keep that up for 1:45 without going ooe

This is assuming he uses every ability immediately off cooldown and lands literally every single skillshot/pbaoe for almost two minutes straight. Props to that Zed player if he's able to accomplish that, that's impressive.

his energy costs are low enough (when compared to other energy users) to ensure that he can sustain his energy while it is down

Let's compare the energy costs of the three main energy champions, Zed, Kennen, and Akali.

Zed

  • Q: 55-75
  • W: 20-40
  • E: 50
  • R: 0 Total: 125-165

Kennen

  • Q: 45-65
  • W: 45
  • E: 80-100
  • R: 0
  • Total: 170-210

Akali

  • Q : 60
  • W: 60-80
  • E: 40-60
  • R: 0
  • Total: 160-200

His base costs are absolutely lower, but let's return to energy regeneration mechanics.

  • Kennen: Three spell casts (or two and an autoattack) return 25 energy if comboed together. Hitting an enemy with E returns 40 energy.
  • Akali: Detonating her mark refunds 40 energy and only requires one ability's energy cost to perform. 40-60 of her energy cost (E) is wasteful in most scenarios.
  • Zed: Regenerates energy only if the following criteria are met
    • Cast W (20-40)
    • Land an ability on a target from two separate locations to restore the cost of W
    • Land another ability on a target from two separate locations to refund 20-40 energy

If he ults he gets a shadow to enhance his damage, which in turn gets amplified by his ult proc. His ult still gives him a shadow for an escape, which can also be used to juke very effectively.

You can't have it both ways. Your previous comment stated that due to his ultimate's high counterability his power budget is far lower in that area, now we're discussing how much stronger it makes him?

he needs a reworked kit that is less overloaded.

What sort of rework would you propose?

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

Zed is extremely reliant on being built glass cannon, and has very little utility that benefits from him being tanky. Zed's entire job is to kill a single target as quickly as possible, if he is having to build defensive items he's probably either doing poorly or so overwhelmingly ahead that it doesn't even matter what he builds.

This is true, and i didn't mean to advocate a tanky build, just pointing out that he is not inherently squishy.

Zed has to make a decision between guaranteed energy return, pushing, and harrassing his enemy every time he wants to fight. The most optimal harass pattern for Zed is actually to avoid minions entirely, because his Q has maximum damage when it is hitting a champion first.

If his enemy is able to consistently dodge his Q, Zed has very little pressure. He can push hard, but without being able to drop consistent harass he's leaving himself pretty vulnerable to ganks.

This is true if your goal is to harass and kill your laning partner. A more successful play pattern is to push your lane and roam to gank another lane as it leads to map pressure and kills more frequently.

This is assuming he uses every ability immediately off cooldown and lands literally every single skillshot/pbaoe for almost two minutes straight. Props to that Zed player if he's able to accomplish that, that's impressive.

It is, i use this as an exercise in resource management. If any other champion tried the same thing they would go oom/ooe much more quickly.

Let's compare the energy costs of the three main energy champions, Zed, Kennen, and Akali. ... His base costs are absolutely lower, but let's return to energy regeneration mechanics.

  • Kennen: Three spell casts (or two and an autoattack) return 25 energy if comboed together. Hitting an enemy with E returns 40 energy.
  • Akali: Detonating her mark refunds 40 energy and only requires one ability's energy cost to perform. 40-60 of her energy cost (E) is wasteful in most scenarios.
  • Zed: Regenerates energy only if the following criteria are met
    • Cast W (20-40)
    • Land an ability on a target from two separate locations to restore the cost of W
    • Land another ability on a target from two separate locations to refund 20-40 energy

Kennen gets back 65, Akali gets back 40-60, Zed gets back 40-80. Zed can get more energy back than his counterparts and his spells cost less. That's my point. You also missed Shen whose combo costs 210 at all ranks and he can only return 40/champion hit if he lands his taunt. In teamfights Shens energy returns are stronger provided that the enemy is lining up for him, but in the laning phase or in small skirmishes it is weaker.

You can't have it both ways. Your previous comment stated that due to his ultimate's high counterability his power budget is far lower in that area, now we're discussing how much stronger it makes him?

Context is everything here, if you want me to argue how strong zed is without his w shadow and without his ult then you've removed a good portion of his kit. It's just disingenuous to expect that.

What sort of rework would you propose?

To be honest i'm not entirely sure. A complete champion rework could be in order but that is a pretty large scale project with a lot involved. His shadows are a core part to zed so his ult and w would have to remain basically untouched. I've had/heard a lot of ideas but most of them just end up gutting zed which isn't a good solution. A few ideas here, some ok, some bad, idk.

  1. One popular idea is to reduce his waveclear by halving the damage on his e and q to minions.

  2. Another popular idea is to remove his passive effects on minions to force him to last hit to farm.

  3. A lot of people want to remove the ad boost on his w passive.

  4. One change i read was that he could only port back to his shadow on command once, so he couldn't switch back and forth over and over.

  5. He can switch with his w as much as he wants but can't switch to his ults shadow or vice versa.

  6. Maybe the passive on his w is only active if the w is off cd. His w can be used to escape but then the death mark doesn't get the 25% ad boost so it encourages him to stay until the enemy is dead without requiring him to stay until zed is dead. If he uses his w to waveclear then he automatically does less damage to the minions.

  7. Make it so he only gets energy return on one of the mimiced casts when he uses his weq combo but raise the amount so he only gets, say, 30/50 energy returned at rank 1/5 instead of 20/40 doubled to 40/80.

  8. Remove the energy return on minions so he has to hit his skillshots on enemy champions to get the energy returns.

  9. Replace the %ad scaling with a flat damage value on his ult so he doesn't get his damage amplified from his w, and the ad scaling on his ult, and the 50% damage dealt from his ult. This moderates the exponential growth on his building ad.

  10. Raise the %ad scaling but remove the 50% damage dealt part. Same idea as 9 but in a different and (imo) worse way.

Personally i think 1,2,6,7,or 8 are reasonable ideas if paired with some appropriate compensation buffs. I've been thinking about 6 for a bit now and it seems like the best option to accentuate his moments of weakness while not gutting him too hard. Thoughts?

Daen2 votes

If any other champion tried the same thing they would go oom/ooe much more quickly.

Akali can detonate marks (the majority of her damage and her main play pattern) literally infinitely until the end of time without ever running out of energy. Kennen can ration out his energy so that he never dips below 80%, especially since autoattacks are involved in his primary regeneration mechanic.

Zed, on the other hand, has to toss out his entire kit almost simultaneously to get the benefits of his regeneration mechanic, and unlike Kennen or Akali he only has the opportunity to do this once every 14-18 seconds within a four second window.

Kennen gets back 65, Akali gets back 40-60, Zed gets back 40-80. Zed can get more energy back than his counterparts and his spells cost less. That's my point.

Kennen gets back 25 every time he gets a passive proc, which can happen three times within five seconds if the player is particularly skilled and uses his ultimate effectively. Akali refunds the entire cost of her primary damage ability every time she detonates the mark.

Each of Zed's individual spells cost less, but in order to get the benefit of his regeneration mechanic he has to use them all at the same time. His initial energy investment for the return is far higher than either Akali or Kennen, it's actually on par with Shen.

Akali only needs to spend 60 energy to gain 40 back, whereas Zed has to expend well over half his energy pool to accomplish the same.

You also missed Shen whose combo costs 210 at all ranks and he can only return 40/champion hit if he lands his taunt.

I didn't include Shen because his energy restoration and role in general function very differently from other energy users. He is also widely considered to have overly punishing costs, so he isn't necessarily relevant to this discussion.

  1. One popular idea is to reduce his waveclear by halving the damage on his e and q to minions.

The damage is already heavily reduced by the innate pass-through mechanics on Q, and E does very mediocre damage until roughly level 8-10. A possible alternative might be to make the pass-through affect minions differently than champions, but it's important to consider burden of knowledge with a change like that.

  1. Another popular idea is to remove his passive effects on minions to force him to last hit to farm.

This would render his passive almost useless, because he very rarely has time to autoattack his champion target within that health window.

  1. One change i read was that he could only port back to his shadow on command once, so he couldn't switch back and forth over and over.
  2. He can switch with his w as much as he wants but can't switch to his ults shadow or vice versa.

I really hope I'm reading this wrong, because if this discussion is based on the assumption Zed can infinitely swap shadows...

Zed can't switch more than once to any of his shadows; he can switch to his W once or to his R once, that's it. Once he switches there's no return.

Maybe the passive on his w is only active if the w is off cd. His w can be used to escape but then the death mark doesn't get the 25% ad boost so it encourages him to stay until the enemy is dead without requiring him to stay until zed is dead. If he uses his w to waveclear then he automatically does less damage to the minions.

To clarify, when his W is available to be cast he would have the boost but not when it's out? This is directly counter-intuitive to the mechanics and pattern of the champion; he's designed to be at his strongest when he can use his W to amplify his damage through multiple casts. It would be a bit of a design conflict for him to lose damage when his main damage amplification ability is in use.

  1. Make it so he only gets energy return on one of the mimiced casts when he uses his weq combo but raise the amount so he only gets, say, 30/50 energy returned at rank 1/5 instead of 20/40 doubled to 40/80.

Theoretically, this would increase the reward of hitting the much easier E double proc and devalue the benefit of double hitting Q. That amount of energy regeneration may also be disproportionate to the costs and availability of said regen mechanic.

  1. Remove the energy return on minions so he has to hit his skillshots on enemy champions to get the energy returns.

This would likely make him extremely feast or famine, and run him completely dry on energy almost permanently. He would also basically never land the mimicked E, because it's melee range from two separate characters 550 units apart.

He would also no longer be able to jungle or even really farm at all, let alone split push.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

Akali: yes she can use just her q but that's only one part of his kit, zed can do that with his entire kit. A lot of Akali's damage comes from this, but she has other substantial parts of her kit that she wants to use. It also is much less effective as a waveclear method.

Kennen: Auto attacks don't regenerate Kennen's energy. His passive procs off abilities only and his e actually prevents him from AA. He has solid energy refunds as well but aa aren't part of that. since he has to hit three abilities to do this then it can only happen if he uses all of his abilities, just like zed. Also just like Zed he can use his ult to regenerate energy, which probably makes him too strong in the energy refunding department as well. Kennen, however, does not have the assassination or splitpushing potential that Zed has so he is weaker in that regard.

Shen: fair enough.

As to the ideas, i listed a bunch that i had heard, not recommending them. I think Zed is a bigger project than any of these ideas suggest. The real problem is how to keep the core theme of the champion while reworking almost everything about him. I know this is kind of a cop out explination but is est quis is est.

For clarity there is an "or" between the various ideas there, not all 10 should be implemented, i'm not sure if that was clear. Further clarity on 6) The passive would be disabled from when the shadow disapears to when the ability comes back off cd. I messed up my explanation of that in the previous post and conflated two ideas in my head, sorry.

TomA3X1 votes

You have to build damage, or you're useless late game, seeing as your only job is to assassinate the 1 ADC. If they have built QSS, then you are probably going to get out dueled, unless you pull off some fancy shit and they don't dodge anything. If you don't build damage then you can't burst people quick enough.

No, but if you're hitting the minions first, you're:

  • Doing a minimal amount of damage to the champion behind them
  • Pushing the wave
  • Using up your entire combo and cooldowns to farm

Aah, yes, that old chestnut. The infinite spammable abilities.

  • Go on then, give him mana, and see what happens, he'll be broken beyond belief. You really don't see how much he is gated by his resource.
  • His cooldowns are relatively high, an 18 second cooldown before he can trade effectively.
  • As usual, you are probably assuming that every single one of his abilities hits not just any minion, but the same minion. Nobody has ever been successful by getting every energy refund. Believe it or not, there is actually a champion on the lane opposite you, and you have to trade with them to win the lane. In order to do that, you have to not hit minions with every ability that comes up.

Unless the person stays still, Zed isn't going to hit those 3 shruikens, he can't even get double slashes, because it doesn't do extra damage.

So even without every ability and passive apart from his ultimate, he's still strong?

I'm so sorry, forgive me. You've obviously never played league of legends, ignore everything i've just said and quickly go and do the tutorials first.

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

You have to build damage, or you're useless late game,

Right, you build damage because it's best on his kit, but he is not by nature squishy by any stretch of the imagination. He has been given the tools to not be squishy if you so desire.

... seeing as your only job is to assassinate the 1 ADC.

No, your job also includes split pushing and quickly taking down objectives including dragon and baron. Assassination is your second job.

No, but if you're hitting the minions first, you're:

Doing a minimal amount of damage to the champion behind them

ok...

Pushing the wave

good, almost there....

Using up your entire combo and cooldowns to farm

done. Now you can roam, which is what you should do as an assassin. Pushing and roaming has a much higher success rate than trying to kill your lane opponent.

Go on then, give him mana

Go ahead and read my post, i never suggested that because it's a terrible idea.

His cooldowns are relatively high, an 18 second cooldown before he can trade effectively.

You think he needs his shadow to trade effectively? He builds pure ad/armor pen he can trade with aa against some champions and still trade effectively.

As usual, you are probably assuming that every single one of his abilities hits not just any minion, but the same minion.

Do the minions juke your shurikens? They aren't exactly hard to hit. If you can't double hit at least one minion with your casts that's lacking some basic zed mechanics there.

Unless the person stays still, Zed isn't going to hit those 3 shruikens, he can't even get double slashes, because it doesn't do extra damage.

Who said anything about 3 shurikens? He doesn't need them for the energy returns. Double shurikens and double slashes provide the full energy return. Also double slashes may not add damage but it does slow to keep you on your target. You don't need to do damage to do something effective. "But it doesn't do the damages" doesn't mean you aren't doing something good.

So even without every ability and passive apart from his ultimate, he's still strong?

What? I said without his ultimate he is still formidable, not without every part of his kit. If you read the recap of my post at the end i say he isn't too strong overall, he just has an overloaded kit.

I'm so sorry, forgive me. You've obviously never played league of legends, ignore everything I've just said and quickly go and do the tutorials first.

No I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you couldn't read critically. Your attitude just reflects negatively on Zed mains everywhere and i'm sure they don't appreciate it.

Father Cthulhu1 votes

To do his job, and 100-0 you, he HAS to have his R.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Zed's job is more than assassinating, his primary function is split pushing while assassinating is a close second.

TomA3X1 votes

He has 3, 3 more tools. 3 Isn't 'so many', its exactly the same number as every other champion. After your Mid laner gets a Zonyas, you are effectively playing with 3 reasonable skills, and a fancy gap closer. Do you honestly think that Zed would be picked if he permanently had 3 skills.

AMYS GRAVE7 votes

He builds AD so he has better than average AA that can really hurt.

He builds AD so he takes towers better than most champions in the game.

He has higher than average move speed to dodge skillshots.

He has higher than average move speed for more efficient roaming.

He has higher than average base health.

He has higher than average base armor.

He has higher than average base MR.

He has higher than average base health regen.

He has higher than average scaling armor.

He has higher than average scaling MR.

He has higher than average scaling health regen.

He has no mana so he doesn't have to invest in those items.

He has higher than average energy returns on his abilities for more ability spamming.

He has lower than average energy costs.

He has an execute passive on a 10 second cd for excellent trades if you are anywhere near low health.

He has mindless last hitting thanks to his passive so he can farm under tower with ease.

He has that execute passive that helps him split push quickly.

He has a low cd q.

He has harass with his q.

He has waveclear with his q.

He has an escape with his w.

He has a gap closer with his w.

He has a damage amplification with his w.

He has a low cd e.

He has waveclear with his e.

He has harass with his e.

He has a slow with his e.

Do you honestly think zed only has 3 tools in his kit without his ult? I just named 27 things zed can do without it off the top of my head. Would he be picked with only 3 abilities? No. Would any champion? Of course not, it's a disingenuous question.

TomA3X1 votes

Okay, congratulations on your list, Most of this list could apply to many many other champions, and it would be easily possible to come up with another list of 27 things for any different champion. If this list speaks to you, has some hidden 'zed is op op' meaning that i'm not understanding, explain it to me.

No they wouldn't, its not disingenuous, because if the high priority targets on their team have ways of countering your ultimate with a button click, then you may as well only have 3 abilities.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

You said-

He has 3, 3 more tools. 3 Isn't 'so many', its exactly the same number as every other champion.

Which is patently false, so i showed that. I'm not saying "Zed is OP" but i am saying that he has quite a few tools in his kit aside from his ult that, if played properly, covers a lot of his perceived weaknesses.

Do you honestly think that Zed would be picked if he permanently had 3 skills.

This is a disingenuous question because it juxtaposes Zed with 3 activateable abilities while every other champion gets 4 in order to show that he is weak in that false comparison. A more fair question would have been "Do you think if we removed all the ults from the game Zed would still be picked" and in that case you bet Zed would be a top tier pick.

DrCyanide4 votes

item 3102 item 3157 item 3140

The list of champions that have ultimates countered by at least 2/3 of these is a lot longer than "Zed";.

TheEloGoblin2 votes

Welp time to buy MR vs zed as a AD mid or completely forgot my build to rush hourglass as a Ap mid shame i really need mana regen but i have to rush hourglass because Zed told me too.

junglerboy162 votes

Actually, buying 2 Dorans rings provides more mana regen than either Athene's or Morellonomicon until after level 9, so going double dorans into Seekers into Zhonya's is a totally viable and unintrusive change to a build path. If you need more than double Dorans for mana sustain before level 9, you have other problems with your play.

Father Cthulhu1 votes

So counterbuilding isn't a thing anymore? Oh, ok.

TheEloGoblin2 votes

The hourglass is fine because as i just learned 2 doran rings give enough mana, but again what about the AD mids that have to get MR items to counter him.His ult is just rush 1 item or you lose.

Sammystorm1 votes

summoner 3 also counters him pretty hard.

Voluug135 votes

summoner 3 counters most damage dealers.

Sammystorm1 votes

yet a lot of people pretend like their is nothing you can do against zed from the start when their clearly is.

Voluug133 votes

But that is not counterplay.

And you cant beat him with that. He just blinks back with his safety shadow to try again in less time that Exhaust's (and most Ults) cd. Unless the Zed is horrible.

Sammystorm2 votes

How exactly is that not counterplay?

Also usually a utility mage has some sort of hard cc on shorter cool down then zed's r cd. So just stun him when he gets out of ult.

Oddysseas10 votes

Step 1 play safe, you don't need to actually go for kills, as long as you can farm.

Step two buy armor, zed is pure physical dmg champion so he shouldn't be able to dive you at lvl 6.

Step 3 rush zhonyas if you are an ap midlaner.

Step 4 pick an anti meta non midlaner to counter him, if you have to pick after him, more specifically pick a top laner like riven or teemo, or some top laner that is strong against him, odds are he isn't used to play against that.

Step 5 if you can, go super aggressive before lvl 6 in order to deny some farm and slow his pre 6 progress.

Step 6 use champions that have a significant amount of lockdown like lissandra, also champions who have some sort of revive that will counter his ult, eg anivia, aatrox, or vlad who can pool his ult, fizz can do the same with his e,

Now i know it's easier said than done, i agree with this post an i am not trying to be the idiot who opposes everything. You are right a well played zed is a big threat and also unfun to play against. I personally hate is E slow, i even made a post about that before, the slow on his E is ridiculous and should have it. But hey here is where i disagree with you.

First of all, zed fall of so so hard in late game, he cant kill more that one peolew in the late and with a proper cc comp he can't even pull this one kill off. Thus he needs to have a kinda op early game to compensate for his poor lategame. Also i hate asking for nerfs on champions, i like to ask for buffs of others instead. Riot seems to nerf more than they buff so pls ask of a champion buff that would conter him rather him getting nerfed.

Blaine Tog4 votes

Step 7: Still lose lane because Zed is one of the best at farming and at roaming while also being incredibly difficult to gank, so he's still fed as hell.

Toothierosprey33 votes

And he's pushing you to the tower denying you cs because you dont have any mana to use on skills because you rushed zhonyas.

Bemapon8 votes

Soraka new meta. Jk, but its funny that when he ults you, you can just put your silence on yourself and watch as all he can do is auto attack.

aquaticwonder5 votes

Shhhhhhh don't talk about Soraka ever NOT being support or a healer.

Rioters will find you.

D1rtFarmer5 votes

Every counter to zed is a common counter for ANY champion..? counter pick? dodge skillshots? use crowd control? gank? even zhonyas the 3g option.

Aych Pii5 votes

I once had a Zed dive me under turret with his ult. I was Xerath, so I stunned him and dumped my abilities on him, dealing a bunch of damage alongside the tower shots he took, and yet he still survived just by mashing his goddamn undo button. It's easy enough not to lose to him unless he outplays you but there's no real way to win against him unless you play on an entire different level than the Zed.

kunkudunk3 votes

That's the one thing I hate about zed, the oops just kidding function of his ult. When that change was made it was called a nerf but it always looked like a buff to me since it just made him safer. It remains to be the only part of his kit I actually hate. I don't care if you can kill me and what not super fast like. Tons of people do it. But most of those people don't get to peace out after killing you or heck before it's happened as the blinking red dot ticks down. And no not everyone buys zhonyas, not everyone is keyori.

smakta4 votes

The thing that really pisses me off about Zed is that he literally takes 0 skill.

Awoof13 votes

If the other player is garbage, of course. If you think that you can actually just mash your skills and expect to stomp everyone, then you've been riding the hate train a little too hard.

Blaine Tog7 votes

I hate Zed too, but it's loco to pretend he doesn't have a pretty high skill floor and ceiling.

Toothierosprey34 votes

I don't know about high skill floor. Yeah, he's not easy to use, but he's not hard either. I bought Zed a while ago (before he was considered op) and started dominating from the first game.

Blaine Tog4 votes

No LoL champion is really that hard to play. They're all just 4 buttons and a right-click. Zed lacks hard CC, has to get right up in there to go for the kill, and needs to combo his skills together in the right way which means it's pretty easy for any team with a halfway-competent support or tank to peel a bad Zed off their squishies. His job is harder than pressing all his buttons in the enemy's general direction, which means plenty of people fall on their face when they try to play him.

Kariu Rena1 votes

He has good early because of his bad teamfighting

If you take laning away from him why would you play him instead of talon then

XeroKimo8 votes

Well assassins aren't supposed to be good in teamfights, I mean they're fking assassins, they work out by killing someone that's out of position, or if they do go for a team fight, they try and kill a squishy target, after all their cd's are burned, they don't really do much.

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