Zed and Talon

Proelium·Feb 27, 2015·6 votes·567 views

Why does Riot consider Zed healthy and Talon unhealthy? Seriously just wanting answers not here to bash Riot... I can easily go elsewhere and do that.

10 Comments

2000boxesFeb 27, 20154 votes

All of you guys stop qq'ing! I'm in bronze V!!! and i find it very fun to lane against zed and i find it fun to play as zed there is nothing wrong with zed he is perfectly balanced and if you think he is so op then why dont you play him

Edge of DaybreakFeb 27, 20153 votes

Turns out that getting bursted while silenced isn't healthy. I thought it was fine but what do I know about healthy gameplay I played Talon and annie!

The problem of Talon is that when he works you just die with 0 chances to respond. All you can do is build a GA, hope he doesn't have the damage to burst you or that a teammate saves you. Zed gives you a lot more options when he goes in to kill you.

As for zed I couldnt fathom why riot thinks that kind of laning strength is healthy. Rake got nerfed because Talon could spam it with little consequence. Then here comes zed with better tools in lane and he has energy.

SouL1essFeb 27, 20152 votes

They think that it's possible to dodge shurikens so they are leaving Zed as is.

Which, it is...but when he is throwing them out like garbage in landfills I get tired of being on alert 110% of the time...

And to expand onto Talon's problem, basically he is "too reliable" as an assassin if his numbers are high. Riot doesn't like that reliability on top of dealing high burst.

WolfChasesFeb 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They think that it's possible to dodge shurikens so they are leaving Zed as is.

Which, it is...but when he is throwing them out like garbage in landfills I get tired of being on alert 110% of the time...

And to expand onto Talon's problem, basically he is "too reliable" as an assassin if his numbers are high. Riot doesn't like that reliability on top of dealing high burst.

Zed's Q is not a problem even if it's on a low cool down. If you hide behind minions his Q damage is low and won't hurt you that much. The real poke from Zed comes out of his combo which includes his entire kit W > E > Q and even after that poke his W is on 18 seconds cool down, when he uses his W to poke you or farm from a distance, punish him becouse he can't escape or use any kind of mobility next 18 sec which is quite long CD for this game isn't it? Also when he uses his W towards you, get the hell out of there and don't let him hit you with E, if you dodge E, it's easier to dodge Q because you won't be slowed.

SouL1essFeb 27, 20151 votes

Zed's Q is not a problem even if it's on a low cool down. If you hide behind minions his Q damage is low and won't hurt you that much

That is not a problem only if he doesn't run on energy.

Any damage he lands on you is favourable for him. He doesn't have a limit to how many times he can damage you with Q in the long term, and he can certainly out damage your natural regen easily.

when he uses his W to poke you or farm from a distance, punish him becouse he can't escape or use any kind of mobility next 18 sec which is quite long CD for this game isn't it?

No, you don't brain-dead go into Zed if he uses his shadow. If he used his shadow but he is still in the middle of his minion wave, as a Talon I'm not gonna jump into him and try to trade against his autoattacks and minion focus, because I will lose the trade. The problem is that Zed doesn't give up his positioning in lane (while being an efficient damage trader at the same time) when he tries to harass you, and therefore you can only respond to his harass in certain situations.

It's the same as why Talon doesn't engage a Darius even if he misses his Q. You still won't win the trade if you go in.

foristFeb 27, 20153 votes

I believe the validation for zed being stronger, more mobile, and safer, but still healthy is because his skill-shots are harder to land than talon's. Not gonna claim that this makes sense from a balance perspective, but not everything about this game has to be fair, right?

WolfChasesFeb 27, 20152 votes

Simply because late game Talon was able to kill an ADC with E>W>Q>Hydra without R during the silence duration.

B3ERFeb 27, 20151 votes

Reason is simple: Zed's successful kill pattern has more depth than Talon's. Zed has to position his shadows and hit all of his Q's to be fully effective, all of which can be played around. This means that you can outplay a Zed that's ahead of you, but conversely a Zed that's behind can outplay you too.

In Talon's case, he's just going to farm until he has enough items to unload his full burst on you. He gets in range, jumps on you and gets everything off. The only thing you could control as an opponent is whether you can Flash fast enough to dodge the Q auto.

DISCLAIMER: This post doesn't discuss the power of either champions, simply kill conditions and the gameplay around them.