What Has Unit Collision Ever Done For Us?

Teridax68··11 votes·2,844 views

Joke title aside, I think there needs to be a discussion on unit collision, and the impact it has on the game. To clarify, unit collision is the inability to occupy the same space as another unit (you can't move through them), which applies to all units (minions, monsters and champions, both allied and enemy).

While not a particularly high-profile effect, I feel it's deceptively impactful, not just in edge cases but also in common laning scenarios (melee vs ranged, for example). It also looks like a flawed mechanic, for the following reasons:

  • It creates situations where you're fighting the game itself: Everyone's had a "minion block OP" moment: you're chipping away at the enemy tower, or moving towards your side of the lane, or just trying to get somewhere, and suddenly, while in only a mildly risky situation, your champion's pathing conspires with the minion wave to prevent you from getting to where you want to go. While mostly just annoying, this can ruin otherwise well-calculated moves, and creates situations where the victim ends up confused more than anything else. Pathing and minion movement aren't always fully predictable, and often there's no visible way to tell when a minion wave is actually forming an impassible wall, so this isn't a mechanic that can be mastered. It's also one that doesn't hinge on interplay between you and your opponent, and in the worst case detracts from it by throwing trades based on random minion block.

  • It skews melee vs. ranged laning in favor of ranged champions: One of the big problems with melee vs. ranged both in and out of laning is that most outcomes hinge on how long the ranged champion can outrange the melee champion before they get hit, if they get hit at all. This is exacerbated during laning, where ranged champions inherently get an initial trading advantage by dint of poking their opponent while behind their own minions. While a range advantage in itself isn't unhealthy to laning (melee champions tend to be more mobile and durable), melee champions have their options reduced by the simple fact that, to trade, they have to go through the entire minion wave over to their opponent, and back again. In this situation, unit collision means that melee champions have very limited natural mobility when trying to harass their opponent through a minion wave, and are more often than not dependent on a gapcloser to trade. Even in melee vs. melee, trying to maneuver towards the enemy laner can be difficult due to unit collision. Effectively, unit collision slows down laning by discouraging autoattack-based trades for melee champions, and innately grants ranged champions an advantage.

  • Champion abilities treat unit collision as an inconvenience: Alongside champion passives like those on Fizz , Hecarim and Kassadin, several champions get to temporarily ignore unit collision purely for QoL reasons (Zac 's blobs and Olaf 's axes in the jungle, for example). Immunity to unit collision is also frequently attached to champion mobility (Udyr 's Bear Stance, Evelynn 's Dark Frenzy, Kennen 's Lightning Rush, etc.), to the point where it feels more like a mechanically convenient default, rather than an exciting bonus. Effectively, it's just more mobility on top of mobility, but it also points out that unit collision mostly just hinders proper movement, and that being able to ignore it allows for more reliable movement.

TL;DR: What it boils down to is: what does unit collision do for the game? What is its intended impact on gameplay? What would a League without unit collision be like? The above arguments are all fairly one-sided, so hopefully with the input of more users and maybe even a Rioter, we can get a more balanced and informative discussion going.

21 Comments

Shrikesnest12 votes

I think unit collision needs to stay in the game for a couple of reasons:

  1. It works as you'd expect. How it works is occasionally annoying, but it's never surprising. This is the holy grail of game design: it adds strategic complexity to the game without requiring the player to learn anything new, so it doesn't present another mastery hurdle.

  2. It adds a strategic depth to the game in multiple ways. Minions are almost always moving, and if they're stationary it's not for long. This means that there's a constantly moving sea of obstacles that block both your movement and enemy movement. This has huge implications for chasing and escapes; being able to escape through the minion wave, as Kennen or Gnar can do, makes you much harder to follow. A Phantom Dancer dramatically increases your mobility in ways other than just making you faster.

Lastly, think of how removing unit collision would affect skill shot champions. One of my favorite tactics when I'm playing Kennen is to E through the minion wave that someone is using to block me, Q them in the face, and run back out before my E wears off. The ability for every skillshot champion to pull that off at any time without a cooldown would make the laning harassment dance significantly less complex and satisfying, as well as making skillshot nukers straight up better across the board.

Pyrobob42 votes

I'm not trying to disagree with your overall point, but unit collision only "works as you'd expect" if you actually think the visuals manage to align with hit-box detection. Which is laughable.

The problem isn't specifically (or solely) with unit collision, though. Hit-box detection, as mentioned, is a big offender, and pathing has its flaws as well. You only have to get glued to a minion once to know that there is a problem somewhere.

The point is, some pretty basic game systems and functions need work, and unit collision is one of them.

Maximum Nidaderp7 votes

It doesn't need to be removed, it needs to be improved.

Sometimes the creep visual doesn't even represent where the creep actually is for the server.

DeadIsTaken5 votes

You know, it would be nice if you could walk through your own minions. That way the creep block would be significantly less. That way they couldn't trap you in between the opponent's turret and them, where you're just eating skill shots from the other side from the jungler that just showed up.

That would be nice.

67chrome4 votes

Unit collision needs to stay, it certainly has it's uses and the game is better with it than without it.

The pathing algorithms the game currently uses though, those awful - and that's what's causing champions to run in awkward places. I mean - nobody who clicks on the back of Baron or Dragon pit wants to walk all the way around to the other side, moving immediately into fail-flash locations the moment they click on impathable terrain rather than simply moving up and hugging the wall. Nobody who clicks on the other side of a pack of minions wants to constantly change their corse to be in front of the moving pack and take 3 tower shots. Nobody who's chasing a champion on the other side of a wall wants to move in the complete opposite direction of their prey because they clicked on part of the wall that takes 0.0001 less seconds to get to going the sub-optimal way.

The problem isn't collision so much as pathing, as pathing just is not very intuitive. It's OK when you need to make 30 degree turns through the jungle, but that's pretty much it. Otherwise you'd pretty much be better off with Warcraft 2's pathing where units just ran straight into a wall and stopped.

Hoi Im Temmo2 votes

item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 I can't remember, but I think there was an item for this problem...hmm item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046 item 3046

JK - I feel like unit collision should be a thing - but that Minions should pile in on top of you. Minions should leave gaps to pass through when they line up to attack turrets and such.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

so where is the solution for tanks,assassins,supports,mages and fighters?

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

As I said, it was a joke...but i suppose it depends on thee tanks, assassins, support, or mage....but fighters? Build dat phantom dancer

have you SEEN ad bruiser Xin Zhao at 2.5 Attack Speed? WHAT TURRETS?

Thunder Dreamss1 votes

It might be nice to have some options for assassins, supports, and mages to ignore unit collision. Or maybe just a support item active for it, like throw it on item 3069. Bam, now everybody has it for a few seconds.

But fighters have enough problems without ignoring yet one more obstacle on their way to your back line and as a tank why would you want to ignore unit collision? Body-blocking enemies is your last ditch desperate peel when everything's on cd and your adc just needs time for one more aa.

mi ramfan2 votes

What if we changed unit collision so that you could path through minions and jungle monsters, but not champions, Dragon, or Baron?

This would help melee champions in lane versus ranged, while not preventing tanks from bodyblocking against assassins and bruisers.

Willahelm Fulber2 votes

One thing I think that Unit collision should consider is relative size of creatures, e.g. a zac with 20% hp is really tiny wheras a cho'gath with 6 stacks is probably around the size of baron nashor.

I feel that unit collision could be adjusted based on what's stacked up around the units; for instance, you wouldn't be able to "wade" through a sea of little minions without at least being slowed down to carefully place your steps; but stepping over a little hurdle (that's what most minions are, after all) wouldn't be that hard.

In the jungle, however, I'd expect stepping on rocks / "razorbeaks" / tree branches would probably hurt a little bit, whereas stepping on the Dire Wolves or the Gromp probably would make them mad, dragon is flying so probably should be ignored for unit collision, and baron's rooted in the ground and probably should be treated as a wall.

In the end, though, I feel unit collision should depend on character size and level of floating (e.g. malzahar and kassadin "float", but corki and dragon "fly")

Maximum Nidaderp1 votes

Zac's hitbot doesn't change with life, only his size by the way. So it's irrelevant if he is tiny with 20% or not.

Willahelm Fulber2 votes

I feel like Zac's Hitbox should change though, it just makes sense that a bigger green blob would explode in a bigger area, doesn't it?

Steelflame2 votes

Unit collision itself isn't a problem. Mostly how badly League's pathing engine is. League's pathing engine has core flaws that show up if two paths cross each other at the same time, or if you click on any point of un-pathable terrain.

Fix most of these core flaws, and you would fix the minion pathing issues as well as the derp-tastic moves when you click on areas you can't actually reach.

TecToNiiC1 votes

Itll never happen but I wish shyv could ignore unit collision while w is up or maybe while she is in dragon form and is "higher up" than other champs and could walk over them.

CharQueen1 votes

http://youtu.be/OcPS0sxOuTs?t=25s

I know what you mean...but I see no reason to remove it completely. Those minions are effective when it comes to fleeing.

SnugglyBunnies1 votes

Why have creeps at all? Just make it so that everyone automatically gets extra GPS to make up for the gold from creeps and then it can just be human vs human.

Seriously though, that's what it would be like if you take collision out.

Neofederalist1 votes

I don't have anything to say on this topic, but I'd definitely like to hear a Rioter's perspective. Upvoted for a clear argument, at the very least.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

What I hate is when you're holding right-click down to move somewhere, and minions that are moving make your pathing change several times back and forth, essentially making you dance between two spots as the autowalk pathing keeps changing which path is the shortest. It's complete bullshit when you're in grave danger and instead of walking right or left around minions, you stand in front of them looking stupid. Minions should make an effort to move out of your path, or the pathing make a damned choice even if it ends up one step further, instead of your path being redirected 5 times.

Rew7111 votes

Don't you dare do anything to my main. Udyr (Except give him a new splash art.)

MarhsallLee671 votes

The biggest problem I have is when I'm at the enemy's nexus, but because of a combination of minions and the collision on the destroyed nexus turrets, I often find myself unable to attack the nexus or even get out of everything's way. But then again, that's just me being a dingus for not attacking the nexus out of the paths of all the minions.

Aside from that, I feel it works as intended.

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