Syndra Passive Idea!

softest boy··21 votes·2,514 views

With Syndra's balance issue normally revolving around her fairly weak passive, I've decided to create one on my own. I do main Syndra, also, so don't think I'm just some randomer trying to solve a Champion's problem that I know nothing about! I just find Syndra's passive to be her weak-point. I mean it begins to do something at level 9!

Transcendence

The more spells Syndra casts, the more Power she obtains. She gains increased spell damage based on the amount of Power she has. If Syndra reaches the maximum amount of Power, all of her spells will begin to cost health. Syndra rapidly begins losing Power once she stops casting spells for 4/5/6 (Every 6 levels) seconds or if she casts her ultimate, which automatically resets it to 0. The maximum amount of Power she may have is increased for every maxed ability Syndra has.

Amount of Power: 100 +50 per maxed ability [300 at level 18]

  1. Q - Generates 20/20/20/25/40 power / costs 10/15/20/25/30 +1.5% of current health at maximum power
  2. W - Generates 20/20/25/25/50 power / costs 20/25/30/35/40 +1.5% of current health at maximum power
  3. E - Generates 20/20/20/20/30 power / costs 15 +1% of current health at maximum power
  4. R - Drains all current power

Bonus Spell Damage: 5% for every 50 power [30% at 300 power]

Syndra's mana bar is inverted, a dark shade of purple instead of blue, and is called her Power Bar. It appears empty, but once you cast a spell it will raise by a certain amount. Syndra could of course stay in her safety zone, but knowing Syndra, she won't. One Syndra breaks her limit, she will become unstable, causing her powerful spells to backlash. Her Power bar will reach it's limited capacity (which increases as she becomes more powerful throughout the game). She can either stop casting spells, allowing herself to cool down and her Power bar to begin rapidly decreasing, or she may release all of her power in one big frontal barrage in the form of her ultimate, Unleashed Power.

This would change Syndra's core items immensely,

  1. item 3020 for the magic penetration.

  2. item 3152 would fit her very well with this passive, giving her high sustain and CDR. Not to mention corresponds well with her abilities, especially at maxed Power.

  3. item 3151 with it's additional health, this would make Will of the Ancients even more valued, along with increasing damage!

  4. item 3116 same as above context.

No longer would Syndra be hindered by mana. This creates a fine power curve for Syndra, without making her completely weak in the early game.

Tell me what you think and how I could balance it anymore!

Any questions about it?

36 Comments

ModAcademy Kayn11 votes

Wait, she starts to lose power after 6 seconds of not casting spells but goes down to 2 seconds at max level? Isn't that bad? Shouldn't it be 3 seconds early game and then goes up to 5 seconds late game?

Second, i would use Flat Health Costs, instead of Percent, since Building Ap/Health Items would be better and wouldn't hinder her late game, where she should be good at.

softest boy1 votes

I agree with the health costs, but early game it's a high amount of time so Syndra can't just willingly have infinite spam-ability. She'll have to stop otherwise she'll be doing damage to herself.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

But that's the part that is confusing me. Why does she have to cast a spell every two seconds late game, to keep her passive up, when early game she has 6 seconds to use a spell to keep it up? It should be switched so that higher CD's early game will naturally run off her Power Passive, while Late Game, when her CD's are much shorter, to afford some downtime moving around, repositioning, to cast a spell before Power wears off.

softest boy1 votes

Yeah. I suppose I was just scared that if that were the case she could simply cast spells indefinitely without cost. I'll mess with that a bit.

RowanEnd7 votes

I really like how this makes her tie in with her "unstable" self, but I feel like nobody is going to be spamming abilities that much so that they reach maximum power. In my experience, a trade with Syndra amounts to 5 ability use: q,q,e,w,r. Additionally I think that it drains too fast for the amount of power that she is generating. In a teamfight I can't imagine her casting enough abilities to max it out.

Narasimha3 votes

Fun idea for a new champ maybe, but I don't see Syndra as needing a whole passive change. Her passive is meant to reflect her lore and identity, of a mage that's growing in power, and reaching peaks of incredible power.

MohawkBird3 votes

[deleted]

softest boy1 votes

I mean yeah, you're not entirely wrong, but even Riot said they could do more with it. At release it made sense and positioned her more of a late-blooming champion, but now it's mediocre compared to other passives once put into light. Overall it's a decent passive, it's just not the power shift Riot wanted, I think.

killd0zer3 votes

absurdly complicated for such little gameplay

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Ever tried playing rumble, yasou, or zillean (after his rework)?

Maple Crusader3 votes

This doesn't fit her.

softest boy3 votes

I think it does. She's extremely power, yet reckless and unstable. Great power comes great consequence. She's destructive.

EDIT: Downvote? Does it not fit her? lmao I thought I'd know my main. My bad.

Divewing1 votes

you're confusing the way her power is described, with the nature of a beserker, theres a bit of a difference. A beserker is someone who will fight totally recklessly without concern for their health and safety (TL;DR Tryndamere). Syndra's power is considered unfathomable, no-one has ever reached the amount of power she has, so no-one knows how far it goes, and thus how far Syndra can control it before it becomes too much for her to handle.

As for my own opinion, I actually like her passive THEMATICALLY. Syndra keeps learning how to control her power, then when she masters it, she unleashes its true strength.

frigginmurlocs2 votes

I feel as if, especially at higher levels, there should be some sort of reason to have a filled power gauge, considering how quickly it will drain at higher levels, say for example, the ult deals an additional 1/2/3 damage per power consumed

softest boy1 votes

I thought about this, and I might add something, but definitely not extra damage. It already would deal SO much with the 30% increased damage. But yes, I'm looking for ways to make using her ultimate with loads of power more rewarding. :)

Fowus2 votes

I don't play Syndra at all but this idea seems good

Tis a nice day1 votes

It is a boatlodge of complexity for a bit more thematic suitability.

Learning moment2 votes

syndra is fine... she just isnt meta atm. lvl 9 she can literally Q - W -E - R full hp and that takes 2 seconds

Divewing1 votes

she hasn't been able to do that in an even fight with someone since..... item 3070 DFG item 3070

Cynical Rain2 votes

The fuck is this shit?

Tis a nice day2 votes

The suggestions of someone who puts thematic and cool sounding changes before sane sounding ones.

Tantro2 votes

I've had a fairly unique idea Syndra's orbs. It would DOT people who are standing by them scaling with her AP. So at end game it would be about 30-40dmg per orb per second. after ulting soemoen instead of spreading the orbs it would ring around the champ dealing about 280dmg/s at average of 7 orbs. Requiring a reduction in her flat ult dmg but increase long team fight potential synergyzing with ults like cataclysm.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

That would be so stupid given her ult's damage. Her ult would have to take a significant nerf in order for something like that to be balanced.

fééd l0rd2 votes

First off I really like your idea and I think it fits her kit. I used to play her a lot on my other account she was one of the only ap mids I could play but at some point I felt useless while playing her.

I just do not know if its the right way to take mana as a ressource away from her. This could make her way to powerful and maybe her ultimate would ro unreliable damage if I understood you right.

Mat7itan1 votes

Not a bad idea, but I highly doubt it will work. The first reason is the mana cost of her abilities is rather high compared to her mana pool. If you do not manage your mana well it is pretty easy to go oom in a fight. Forcing her to spam her abilities more that she does now is really going to hurt her. The second problem is the health cost. Trading health for a lot of power isn't a terrible idea, but syndra's health pool is not very big, and her biggest weakness is her lack of mobility making it dangerous for her to go near enemies with low health.

As for those being core items on her they really suck with her kit. Well the sorc shoes and rylai's are good (they are without the passive you have created), but wota and liandires are terrible. The reason being she relies very heavily on burst late game. Liandires is good on poke type champs or champs that have a lot of sustained damage because of the magic pen it gives, and it's %health burn passive. On burst the %health burn is useless, and the magic pen it provides is not enough to really change whether you 100 - 0 someone (it will help but not enough to justify it). Wota is just as bad for the same reason. Yeah she does a lot of damage, but it is all in an instant. Wota is nice on champions that don't rely as heavily on spell rotations as others or on champions who have built in sustain. On a burst champion you throw out your abilities as quickly as you can in order to one shot a champion. With wota you may get a rush of health (I find it to be very tiny), but now all of your abilities are on cool down, and you have the enemy team in your face (no more health gain for a little bit). Also wota does not really great offensive stats compared to other core items on burst mages so you lose out on damage that you would otherwise have and may not be able to one shot anyone.

But once again this is not a bad idea.

softest boy1 votes

Yeah, I agree with you for the most part, but I can see WoA being very viable with this passive. It counter-acts the health cost on her abilities, allowing her to potentially ignore her limit. She'll be 2x as squishy by also 2x as deadly. I'm not completely done with this passive, as I'm looking for a way to make her ultimate more rewarding. But yeah - I see your points.

Cogito Ergo Sol 1 votes

Correct me if I'm wrong, so basically instead of the current system (The more Dark spheres you have the more damage you do with the ultimate) the more spells you cast the sooner you will use your nuke? This is quite good, still, it's kinda meh. Imagine being someone already immobile with 3 damage spells (W is difficult to cast properly since it has a high travel time + her E is good for selfpeel and catch up enemies, it does little damage compared to Q), and you need 300 power to cast her ultimate. First thought, I would personally buff her mobility:I'm talking about reducing cast times and travel times, and maybe give her a higher movespeed. This would allow her to kite properly and prepare her to her ultimate, wich should do often maximum damage since it doesn't need Q like lives. Second thought:No buffs, the ultimate just deals damage based on how much power she has currently, but I would remove completely mana costs from her kit, just flat HP and; if she reaches 300 power her spells could cost 100%50% more HP. Example: Q with 0 power: 32 health----------->Q with 300 power: 6440 health Btw, I like this idea, awesome thought!

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

She already has 0 cast times by definition.

Cogito Ergo Sol 1 votes

Her E has cast time, her Q a delay and her W has high travel time

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Her E has no cast time. Having no cast times is part of her passive. EDIT: herpie, I was wrong.

Cogito Ergo Sol 1 votes

I checked the wiki just for clarity :P

softest boy1 votes

I made it flat HP cost, but for clarification, she can cast her ultimate at ANY time. It just resets her power to 0.

Rico Nasty1 votes

Eh. As someone who frequently plays Syndra (200+ games, Mastery 5), this seems like a nice idea but there are way too many problems, as stated by other commenters. Regardless, Syndra needs a new passive.

Hupsis1 votes

Interesting idea.

I like the idea of hp sacrificial for raw power.

I kinda wish that her ult became a skillshot with increased range (kinda like Culling). However as I suggest this I can already hear the Syndra mains opposing this idea. One can always hope.

Overlord Forte1 votes

For one %hp automatically makes HP items worthless, since they always take the same amount. You'll want to look at Flat HP amounts, but that vastly reduces the downside to this cost. The utilization of WOTA can effectively neuter that problem, for instance, leading to no appreciable penalty for the +5%->+30% damage bonus she receives. Thus the question of 'why use this as a balancing point?' begins to arise, and you run into the Vladimir problem.

This also inverts the DPS playstyle, removing it in favor of the now stronger sniper playstyle. There is less reason to engage with depleting HP when you can cast spells, acquire Power, then stun+ult an overloaded ultimate's damage. You would need a 'casts that hit' rule clause, so Power only acquires when spells hit, to remove this problem. Unless it is by design, of course.

Power's drain rate is too fast, at 3rd phase with 2 seconds, you'd probably want it to be 3 seconds, which is a level 9 + 25%? CDR Q. If the Q alone cannot consistently build Power, as her main ramping tool, it falls out of sync with the rest of her kit. W and E should help to spike it, rather than be required (especially in E's case, as it is an important skill).

Removal of Syndra's mana costs will result in the rest of her kit taking a massive damage downgrade. The extreme high/low pattern she has currently is allowed by her mana fragility. The net result, ironically, would most likely be the +30% damage bonus being comparable to her mana powered version's current damage profile. So you gain the ability to work consistently, but your high notes are now no longer as good as they once were. There is also the possibility some other effects may be nerfed in compensation, such as the potency of her stun.

I've mused on a similar idea myself, so it's interesting to see we landed in the same ball park. I think removing mana and adding health costs is too much, though, and will result in the rest of her kit becoming warped beyond recognition. Consider any currently resourceless champion (Vladimir, Riven, Rengar, Katarina, etc) and find one that is not a balancing problem, I'll be very surprised.

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