How funny would it be if they made Annie's R have a .75 second delay?

arbokfister·Mar 2, 2015·81 votes·5,100 views

For "counterplay" purposes

No this is not an Annie qq thread. I think she's pretty balanced tbh

87 Comments

SmokingPuffinMar 2, 201553 votes

I am completely convinced that Annie is eventually going to get a "Annie throws Tibbers" animation, like in that one cinematic they made.

AbyssionKnightMar 3, 201510 votes

They did that to corki Q, and now zilean bombs, so it makes sense to me. While it'd be a pretty big nerf, if they animated it right at least it could possibly look cool.

SmokingPuffinMar 3, 20153 votes

It would definitely be a nerf. Would expect it to be part of a rework where they make her passive less reliable and buff her elsewhere. Zilean is a good comparison.

It would probably be awesome looking.

AuryielMar 3, 201521 votes

Back when Annie support became popular I actually asked for such a change, because of course it would come with a range increase, so she'd be a lot less dependant on Flash to actually do something and they wouldn't have had to nerf her passive.

IMO it would be way cooler too. You could have Tibbers doing some sick slamming motion when he bursts into existence.

DivewingMar 3, 20155 votes

You don't want a range increase, a range increase will be too much and then i guarantee you her ult will get a ridculous delay like 1.25 seconds or something crazy that no champion should have to deal with.

Auz the RipperMar 3, 20154 votes

He's talking a range increase combined with making it a thrown projectile, which Riot seems to be OK with considering Zilean

Although who can tell with Rito?

Meeks011Mar 3, 20151 votes

Some sick slamming motion

Like a knockup... I wouldn't be surprised.

Widdle MegasetteMar 3, 20153 votes

I'm sick of knock ups...

John BerserkMar 3, 20151 votes

I would love this actually. I wouldnt mind the delay so long as we got a range increase as compensation.

I think the projectile speed should be rather fast though, because making Tibbers a lobbed projectile like Corki's Q would mean it's blockable by Yasuo and Braum, and while that is fair counterplay, Tibbers IS still an ult.

Samflash3Mar 3, 20151 votes

Shh! Don't give Riot ideas lol.

Funny enough, it wouldn't be a bad idea. If it was a long range ult like say 1000, imagine the pick potential. That burning bear that comes outta nowhere running after you really fast (annie's W buff).

But then they'd have to put more damage into the burning duration/more health on Tibbers.

shortfatchodeMar 2, 201526 votes

She'd get compensation "buffs" like Tibbers would get his own recall animation

IcyPepperMar 2, 201527 votes

Veigar Compensation.

DrCyanideMar 3, 201523 votes

Not as funny as some other potential changes:

Zed - 0.75 second delay before he can use his shadow for anything Ahri - 0.75 second warning where she will dash to LeeSin - Must wait 0.75 seconds before re-activating Q or dashing to a newly placed ward. JarvanIV - 0.75 second warning where his ult will land Leblanc - 0.75 second delay before going back to her Distort Nasus - 0.75 second delay between pressing his Q and being able to attack with it RekSai - 0.75 second delay before being able to enter a tunnel Riven - 0.75 second warning that she's firing her ranged ult Shaco - 0.75 second delay before his Q activates Singed - 0.75 seconds to get out of the trail before it hurts you Teemo - You must stand on a mushroom for 0.75 seconds before it will detonate Yasuo - 0.75 seconds between dashses Yorick - 0.75 second delay before ghosts drop

Some of these are just for fun, but I think all of them whould technically increase the "counterplay" against these champions. Just adding a delay without considering anything else was a really bad idea.

BasidiomycotaMar 3, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Not as funny as some other potential changes:

- 0.75 second delay before he can use his shadow for anything - 0.75 second warning where she will dash to - Must wait 0.75 seconds before re-activating Q or dashing to a newly placed ward. - 0.75 second warning where his ult will land - 0.75 second delay before going back to her Distort - 0.75 second delay between pressing his Q and being able to attack with it - 0.75 second delay before being able to enter a tunnel - 0.75 second warning that she's firing her ranged ult - 0.75 second delay before his Q activates - 0.75 seconds to get out of the trail before it hurts you - You must stand on a mushroom for 0.75 seconds before it will detonate - 0.75 seconds between dashses - 0.75 second delay before ghosts drop

Some of these are just for fun, but I think all of them whould technically increase the "counterplay" against these champions. Just adding a delay without considering anything else was a really bad idea.

too bad the .75 sec delay had no intention to actually be functional, they wanted veigar out of competitive play so they got what they wanted. I hope to god they didn't think that this is was a good idea because everyone in their right mind knew that this was gonna kill veigar, like no one can be that dumb.........right

DrCyanideMar 3, 20157 votes

You'd hope Riot's not that incompetent. 0.75 second delays/warnings would completely remove the above champions from competitive play (well, those that are in competitive play).

We'll see what Riot actually does about his 5.5 changes to buff him back up a bit, but I'm skeptical.

MoonshadeMar 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You'd hope Riot's not that incompetent. 0.75 second delays/warnings would completely remove the above champions from competitive play (well, those that are in competitive play).

We'll see what Riot actually does about his 5.5 changes to buff him back up a bit, but I'm skeptical.

nothing on the PBE for our favourite mad yordle yet saddly :(

EedatMar 3, 20152 votes

nothing on the PBE for our favourite mad yordle yet saddly :(

yeah..... with his 4% pick rate pre-nerfs, he was definitely not a "favourite"

I'm not arguing that he's not gutted now. I just think its stupid that everyone acts like they are a Veigar main or gave a damn about him before this patch anyway

Romans VI XXIIIMar 3, 20156 votes

I just think its stupid that everyone acts like they are a Veigar main or gave a damn about him before this patch anyway

So if you do not main a champ you can not care about that champ? that is literally what you just said. So who do you main? don't ever talk about any champ except them, and if you don't main veig why are you even here?

You don't have to main a champ to care about them, and to agree or disagree with changes. Your comment is like saying, you cant discuss league unless you are a pro player.

EedatMar 3, 20151 votes

Ok, where are the threads complaining about Zac and Urgot being gutted? They've been completely gutted for YEARS and nobody gives a damn.

My point is that the community is so one sided about these types of things. If the community decides that a champion is "toxic", they are allowed to be completely gutted into nothingness and everyone is perfectly fine with it. Look at last year. Eve, Gragas, Elise, Yasuo, and Kha'Zix are nerfed into oblivion and the community cheered it on because they were deemed "toxic" or "OP". Yet when the same happens to a champ that nobody really plays there is a MASSIVE outcry.

We don't even need to look as far back as Season 4. Akali, Syndra, and Fizz have been utterly destroyed this season yet not a single QQ thread bashing RIOT for destroying them. FFS even Kalista is sitting at a 45% win rate after her nerf yet people still complain about her being OP and want even more nerfs

Romans VI XXIIIMar 3, 20153 votes

The difference is, if you didnt notice. that VIEG was PROMISED "COMPENSATION" BUFFS FOR THE REMOVAL OF DFG! and as you know he got NERFED to the ground, BEHYOND URGOT. THAT IS WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS SO FUCKING PISSED ABOUT. THE LIES THAT RIOT FED THEM ALL, ABOUT HOW VEIG WAS GETTING A BUFF AND INSTEAD THEY NERFED HIM TO THE GROUND.

Where as ALLLLLLLL, yes ALLLLLL even urgot and zac, where, and some still are, VERY POWERFUL picks and you know FULL WELL that they deserved nerfs. Now some of them may have got hit to hard. But not a SINGLE one of them was promised a buff and got nerfed. THAT IS WHY THE COMMUNITY IS SO FUCKING MAD!

RetroRage96Mar 3, 20153 votes

You can just bold or italicize all those capitals, and it would be a lot easier to read.

Yeah but I agree with Eedat, when someone is nerfed and the community doesn't like it, people act like they mained that champ and are outraged that they can't play their favorite champ...

I'm saying that people are using this and other nerfs to attempt to validate themselves among other ragers.

GorgiolioMar 3, 20152 votes

I can't agree with that, especially when you've played almost every champ in the game. I don't main veigar, you didn't have to, to see that such a change was pretty deadly. Saying you main a champ is total bullshit in general, because to be a competent player and get anywhere beyond bronze you should be able to play a handful of champs in every role. One trick ponies are obviously exception, but they're just abusing a stupidly strong champ. cough fatefalls cough Anyways, a champion shouldn't have to be a main or a total favorite to receive someone's love and care.

PhanronMar 3, 20151 votes

Damn. I'd really like to see LeBlanc changes like that. Would make her feel less doing whatever she wants to do.

ActuallyArrowMar 3, 20151 votes

Karthus -0.75 second delay before he deals damage to all champions

Could literally farm to lvl 6, then sit in spawn and get a penta kill.

TBadgerMar 3, 20158 votes

Yeah, but you see think thing is, Annie doesn't have lots of burst damage and reliable point and click abilities...

Wait, what were we talking about again?

Arch Mage MagnusMar 3, 20157 votes

It would be better if it showed a brief ring around where Tibbers was going to be summoned....cause you know.... having an instant stun that also does a shit ton of damage isn't broken.

Unlike Veigs E which stuns and does no damage.

AbrahamBaconhamMar 3, 20153 votes

I think that would be an excellent idea.

You know why they changed Veigar's stun? No, it wasn't because he was overpowered, no it wasn't because "muh counterplay". Its because it felt like fucking bullshit.

Seriously, there were few things in the game as frustrating as being hit with a Veigar stun. Fizz, maybe, but Veigar stun was definitely up there. Yes, there was counterplay, the little fucker was countered by AD champs, ganks, literally anyone who got in his face. Yeah, it was obvious he was gonna do it. But if he did land that thing, which honestly wasn't as hard as everyone keeps saying it was, it was all over. Boom, stunned, now you get to do absolutely nothing for a second and a half until Veigar waddles up and deletes you. Yeah, he was balanced, he definately had his weaknesses, but that didn't mean it was fun to play against him. And I agree, the stun he has now is practically worthless, but its a change that's less awful to play against, and hopefully will get a delay reduction.

Annie is, in a way, kind of the same deal. She gets her passive up, runs/flashes at you, and ults. If you get hit, you die, that's it, end of story. Of course there's counterplay, like banshee's veil or abusing her short range, but that doesn't mean it feels good to get very suddenly stunned and subsequently deleted. If they changed her ult into a lob, and buffed her range or something, it'd go a long way towards making her feel less like a bullshit champion.

Balanced =/= healthy.

ccseancc143Mar 3, 20151 votes

I hate Annie. She has insane burst with a low ass CDs on all her abilities.

Silents429Mar 3, 20152 votes

I don't get it. Just stun with her other 2 abilities the delay is meaningless.

Eraest97Mar 3, 20151 votes

Her Q is a single target, so instead of the entire team you only stun one person.
Her W could get the whole team, but it is a lot harder. Her W is a 50 degree cone and her ult can stun everyone in 290 AOE range. So instead of stunning the frontline with her W she can instead stun the whole team with her ult if she lands it right in the center.

Silents429Mar 3, 20151 votes

Single Target point and click, more reliable then the fools who try stunning someone in lane with their ult.
I have never witnessed an Annie have a problem landing her W on a whole team, She might miss that 1 person in the back, but her ult isn't much better at getting stuns with its short range either. And landing a stun with another ability means you WILL get your ult off on people, everyone already expects Tibbers to appear first.

Eraest97Mar 3, 20151 votes

No argument that her Q is very reliable in lane.
The thing is you usually have to flash W to get the team. Where as with Tibbers, you don't have to always flash.

Auz the RipperMar 3, 20153 votes

{quoted}

you don't have to always flash.

Just usually

Huehue

Silents429Mar 3, 20152 votes

The thing is you usually have to flash W to get the team. Where as with Tibbers, you don't have to always flash.

Notice the word usually, Most of the time you have to flash ult, Not any different then flash W. Tibbers doesn't have that big of a cast range. And unlike W it's easier to miss. Unless you are dumb and trying to W far away.

Either one works, but my original point is that a .75 delay (Even if its a joke) on her ult wouldn't do anything other then buff the players in a way, make them use the reliable W and Q more often.

Shield VillainMar 3, 20152 votes

I'm not complaining or anything. But why not make him a skill shot like Fizz's shark ult? Only instead of delaying it activates on strike with a champion or the point where you aimed it at?

QueenAquaMar 3, 20153 votes

It kinda is a skillshot, lol. If you play her like most, you use Tibbers to get a teamwide stun and it is entirely possible to miss the ult, just like with Fizz's even when your not using it for stuns. And it does activate at the point you aimed at, lol.

Romans VI XXIIIMar 3, 20151 votes

He was talking about the Vieg E, not the annie ult. "him" compared to you "her". and turning it into something like how fizz ult works would actually be a better direction than what they did. as it adds counter play, but keeps the reliability of the skill pretty high.

QueenAquaMar 4, 20151 votes

I was pretty sure he was talking about Annie and the him referred to Tibbers, who is a him in her lore.

Plus, you know, it's a thread about adding a delay to Annie's Ult.

j jMar 3, 20152 votes

Annie is fine but with dfg gone she relies heavily on the hat.

Eraest97Mar 3, 20152 votes

That is like saying Katarina heavily relied on DFG. Annie still does a lot of burst damage even without DFG

j jMar 3, 20151 votes

also katarina never built dfg. The bronze is strong with this one. Bad comparison. (annie did rely on dfg unless her opponent was completely idiotic.) Hat will suffice now but it limits her build patterns.

Eraest97Mar 3, 20155 votes

Oh sorry didn't realize I was talking to a Plat 5 player. Sorry your highness.

Yes she has a lot of risk due to the fact that she is not a mobile burst like ahri or leblanc. Yes she can still burst people. When all of her spells do a fixed damage plusJUST ABOUT 80% of your AP. Yes you don't 100-0 someone in 2 seconds like when you had dfg, but you still can even without it.

The reason I mentioned Kat, was if you look at the comments of the patch notes for 5.2, her name was mention of people crying about her without DFG. In reality Kat didn't really need DFG. That is what I meant when I mentioned Kat.

j jMar 3, 20151 votes

I only called out your rank because annie (mid) is only a problem for people in lower elo. It is also obvious you are relatively new to the game based on your perception of burst when it comes to annie's kit and itemization. Annie isn't capable of 100-0'ing people ever unless

A) you have no mr aside from your '30'. (her mpen would make her do nearly true dmg if you have 30) B) you have no hp besides level progression. (hp is an important stat early to survive burst) C) you or your team fed her early. (see a/b)

Q W R + ignite does not 100-0. She has to do sustained damage prior to her burst to a target. (in laning from 1-9 area) How you build after that determines whether or not you get 100-0'd as with any mage. You are completely wrong.

Romans VI XXIIIMar 3, 20152 votes

100% incorrect. Annie can EASILY 100-0 the same targets a LB, ahri, or kat can 100-0. BUT it rarely happens cause while lb, ahri, and kat are building PURE damage items annie is rushing a catalyst into a RoA early game. AND if you where so PRO like you think you are (calling out peoples opinions based on ranked) you would KNOW this, because where LB, ahri and kat are VERY MOBILE, annie is NOT. making it harder to go glass cannon like LB, ahri, and kat. That is while the typical rushing of RoA is done on annie, to give her the survivability she needs in team fights.

AmazingGoatMar 3, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yk8ir9bt,comment-id=000c0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-03T17:01:06.684+0000)

I only called out your rank because annie (mid) is only a problem for people in lower elo.

Annie mid currently has a 56% win rate in plat+ across NA, EU, and Korea. In fact, she has the second highest win rate in the game at the moment. Again, that is plat+, so that is among players who are all at or above your rank. Maybe you don't understand Annie's power level as well as you think you do.

j jMar 3, 20151 votes

I understand her power and know how to face her. I also used to use her but she has been increasingly boring over the last couple years due to mobility in the game and her lack of team fight potential. She is only good in solo queue for pub stomping bads. Same to that how shaco operates.

AmazingGoatMar 4, 20152 votes

Again, she has a 56% win rate in plat+ across NA, EU, and Korea. Are plat+ games "pubstomping"?

j jMar 4, 20151 votes

Yes she only can pub stomp and the only reason she is viable for even pub games is hourglass, so she can quickly flash and burst somebody out later in the game if she bought dfg / hourglass or deathcap / hourglass (if they were dumb and did not buy at least 1 D item if she was fed) and hourglass (op active). Hourglass should be nerfed or changed dfg was not the issue for burst or assassin ap champions. But for this very reason annie is great at pub stomping. She is especially good during lane phase because people are terrible at consistently warding in every elo. Or even if they see her coming or have been notified they do not heed the warnings or even their own gut. (how they gettin killed to immobile roamer doe?)

As previously stated she's a champion that capitalizes on players making mistakes / playing like $%!@. You have the misconception that most people in plat, diamond are good. They aren't, even people in diamond 1, challenger get cocky and do idiotic stupid things to get their opponent snow balling because they have the "it's all about me mentality"