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Malzahar...

SH Azykan··1 votes·809 views

So, Malzahar is an obnoxious opponent in lane. I know this, it is one of the reasons I started playing him. It just seems ridiculous how easily he shoves the lane into turret, and regens essentially all the mana used because of his E refund (he can kill an entire wave with it on the minions and get stupid amounts of mana back) His E also chunks a hefty amount of your hp if it happens to go onto you, so positioning yourself to take the bounce in place of a minion just leads to an even worse issue. Once Malz hits level 6 he also becomes a terrifying kill pressure because if he lands Q+E+Ignite+R you are probably dead without QSS (don't even need the Q if you ate an E already).

Now I do not have an issue with his damage, or his Suppress. They are what make Malz who he is.

My real issue is his waveclear on top of it. He can clear waves the moment they get to lane with Q+E+ a couple AA's if he has a voidling prepped. This forces champs to spend their mana to clear the wave in return, but a lot of them do not have an easy mana return back like Malz. And they can't even try to trade with Malz because if his E hops on them it is going to hurt like hell and he can just immediately back off and still get most his damage on you.

So my thought is, what if they lowered the E's damage to minions? Or removed the mana refund on E and compensated with lower mana cost on his Q (letting him use it more freely since it is a little less reliable)?

He shouldn't essentially get a free tower in mid lane just because I don't have enough mana as Orianna to clear the waves in return (another immobile mage) and his minions just slowly chunk it down. Ganking him doesn't work because he Just E+Q's the caster wave then AA's the melee wave like 2x each and walks back to his tower. Since mana regen has been hit so hard so repeatedly, other mana users just cant keep up with the waveclear early. Either Malz's needs to be brought in line for early game, or others needs theirs back.

Just my opinion ^_^

14 Comments

Lugg2 votes

He is strong, but he definitely has counterplay.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Malzahar has problems during lane phase, though. He has to choose between using E for harass and is vulnerable to ganks.

unfortunately I can't write more, the battle started here

SH Azykan1 votes

why use E for harass? seriously, E a caster minion, Q them, get in a couple autos to ensure last hits on Melee's and you never pass the middle of the lane making ganks far harder against him. If the enemy eats the E from a minion bounce it can chunk a ton of their hp and you still can clear the wave pretty quickly. The enemy is forced to clear your wave under their tower using up mana or do it with auto's and their tower takes damage from the minions.

I know it doesn't work for every matchup, but seriously...It is like retarded against champs like Lux, Orianna, and even LeBlanc.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

I didn't had time to properly write my post. I was meant to say that Malzahar has to choose between using E for harass or to push the lane.

khorney1 votes

{quoted}

why use E for harass? seriously, E a caster minion, Q them, get in a couple autos to ensure last hits on Melee's and you never pass the middle of the lane making ganks far harder against him. If the enemy eats the E from a minion bounce it can chunk a ton of their hp and you still can clear the wave pretty quickly. The enemy is forced to clear your wave under their tower using up mana or do it with auto's and their tower takes damage from the minions.

I know it doesn't work for every matchup, but seriously...It is like retarded against champs like Lux, Orianna, and even LeBlanc.

because E is his damage its like a teemo shroom that bounces off cs and whne you have rylais and liandrys you watch E melt

khorney1 votes

To carry on what the first guy said and that is it depends how malz is building if you see him building roa and deathcap he will fall off and do very little damage cause he won't know why . malz truly core items are liandrys and rylais because your e and ult is pretty much all you need to kill someone

SH Azykan3 votes

his true core items are item 3042 item 3071

AD malz is life. But yeah no AP malz with Liandry's is definitely far scarier than one with deathcap XD

pE4CbxDPQO1 votes

{quoted}

if you see him building roa and deathcap he will fall off and do very little damage cause he won't know why .

This is pretty wildly inaccurate. I didn't even know Liandry's was an item and probably never bought Rylais either when I leveled through the game. Always rushed deathcap like a little noob and and was really quite easily 100-0ing people.

Boots Morellonomicon Deathcap DFG Void Staff SIght Stone

That was my build and while its not optimal it will still shit out damage. Huge ratios work.

khorney2 votes

{quoted}

This is pretty wildly inaccurate. I didn't even know Liandry's was an item and probably never bought Rylais either when I leveled through the game. Always rushed deathcap like a little noob and and was really quite easily 100-0ing people.

Boots Morellonomicon Deathcap DFG Void Staff SIght Stone

That was my build and while its not optimal it will still shit out damage. Huge ratios work.

well i do get moro becuase of the ap and the passive, dfg doesnt exist anymore and as a midlaner its unwise to ever rush deathcap for any reason, you build the liandrys and rylais becasause malz does damage over time and using these 2 items your enhancing the damage. its the same reason you ge these 2 items on vel koz

Nilok1 votes

When I play Malz, the thing I fear most of all early game is the minion's AI. There have been many a fame when the minions either ignore the Maliphic Visioned minion or the minion I target runs all the way back to the casters so it does spread so I don't get mana back.

The pushing is also a downside if the enemy jungle is good and Malz hasn't warded.

SH Azykan1 votes

after level 2 you should have Q and E Place E on a caster minion, Q them. It should kill all 3 with just that and get the 3 refunds and usually jump onto the melee's which you can auto for the last hits and keep it going.

On cannon minion waves don't do it because you don't want to "lose" the E on the cannon. Because yeah the AI is a little ridiculous.

You also don't have to worry about shoving if you A) Ward B) Ensure you wipe casters first so you keep minion aggro near the middle of the lane (key is clearing instantly to force them into enemy tower before the next wave arrives and then setting up a freeze for the cannon wave)

It took like 6 practice games to get it to be consistent but I feel retardedly safe from ganks when the enemy laner is stuck under their tower to try and get CS. (Note this does not work at all against champs like Yasuo who can clear the wave without using resources easily).

Maybe feel a little threatened by a champ like Fizz if I try to do this, but you gotta learn each matchup. I just hate this tactic when playing a champ like Orianna because I just go OOM and you can't really "win" this lane. It is the same issue I have with heimerdinger top against a melee (lane interaction being if I try to fight him I die or take a ton of damage from turrets, if I don't then I lose my tower anyways because lol what are minions?)

Nilok1 votes

That is a horrible suggestion if you want to keep your mana up.

At level 2 and having Call of the Void (80) and Malefic Visions (60), it will cost 140 mana to do that. Assuming everything works out perfectly and you have Doran's Ring, you will generate 42 mana, an now the Malefic Visions isn't working with your minions so it has a high chance it will expire unless your Voidling is also out.

As you level up Malefic Visions, the cost out paces the mana return if you continue to use this combo to farm. MV2 + CotV an Doran's Ring: 101 MV3 + CotV an Doran's Ring: 104 MV4 + CotV an Doran's Ring: 107 MV5 + CotV an Doran's Ring: 110

Any enemy mid would see this and gleefully farm under tower as your burn away at your mana instead of managing it carefully by using your Voidling and minions to push for you.

If you already have your Voidling primed, you want to work with your minions to push your Malefic Visions early game so you can recover your mana. If you do it right, you should generate 50 mana if you fail last hitting and 74 if you can place your attacks correctly.

It is far better to just wait until level 2 while trying to freeze the minion wave, this will allow you to build up a double wave and use your Malefic Visions, your minions, your Voidling, and a few auto attack to farm both waves and get mana back to harass with Call of the Void effectively for free.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

[deleted]

SH Azykan1 votes

year old post? way to necro Back when I posted this I even played Malz a lot into Zeds because of how bs the matchup was

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