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Why is Blade of the Ruined King not being looked at for nerfs?

SH Azykan··40 votes·2,743 views

Okay so I have put a lot of thought into this, so please don't just brush it off. And if you have something to add, I welcome you to a discussion in the comments section.

So Blade of the Ruined king is a super awesome item, nobody can deny that. It offers % HP damage, Lifesteal, AD, Attack speed, and a great active slow. Anyone who auto attacks can look to it as an item for their build, especially if they have tanks. As the %hp damage makes it even more so appealing when having to deal with a Health stacking Mundo or Cho'gath.

Why do I feel it needs nerfs?

It is pretty much just as effective against squishies as it is tanks. If not more so due to the fact lifesteal is just going to be stronger when hitting a target you do more damage to. This isn't the only reason though, it is only the start, but also where my suggestion for change will lead to.

The problem cases: Devourer Junglers. A lot of people are having issues with Devourer junglers right now, and are wanting nerfs to Devourer itself. But if you look at the best junglers with Devourer (Barring Kayle), you see pretty much all of them abuse it with both their in-built on-hit effects and BotRK. And it is obvious why, all the extra % hp damage tacked on with Sated is actually pretty insane, especially since both items give AS (more attacks) and BotRK's active makes it much easier to stick to targets to get off multiple auto's. They are a Perfect Storm together; giving a lot of mixed damage, stickiness, sustained dps, and pseudo-burst. It also makes them drop objectives extremely quick. Being able to get the extra %hp damage every other hit adds up really quick on Dragon and Baron.

Vayne: Yeah boo hoo, I am going to bring up Vayne. The thing is, she is seeing a lot of play and even starting to get banned in higher elo...way more than before. While her kit might not exactly be the most broken thing ever in my opinion. I do feel like her identity as a late-game tank buster with a weak early game is kinda...well off right now. Right now she can rush a BotRK, and then duel most champions in the game. It isn't even her W itself that is an issue. Her kit already offers self peel, on top of the BotRK Active. And its pure synergy with her kit, it would be silly for her not to rush it. The problem is, that is an incredibly strong power spike really early for a champ like Vayne who is incredible late game. There aren't many lanes that just bully a vayne to deny her farming anymore. And in competitive play, they are even lane swapping her to 100% avoid this. Letting her get her spike pretty much on time with other adc's.

So, what would I propose as a nerf to BotRK? Well first off I would want to solidify its niche/identity. It needs to be the go to item for Auto attackers to deal with tanks. It needs to have its efficiency entirely based on how much hp the target has/has built.

Have the %hp damage based on Bonus health on champions, rather than straight hp. Encourages building into a champ that will build hp, but is significantly weaker on squishy champs. Let it keep its % damage on monsters though, as it is still one of the better items for objective taking and it is totally cool being used for that. Would be weird to tune it based on both their bonus hp and current hp numbers, but I definitely think it could make the item healthier as a niche pick. You could have it being strong against a Cho'gath, without it being worth rushing on Zed vs a Lux...

I feel like Vayne's would still rush the item (just pure synergy with her kit) But it wouldn't be such a strong early power spike on her. As her targets wont have much bonus HP at that point, and she would need the game to go on longer for the item to pick up speed. Doesnt change devourer junglers clearing with it, but when they get on a backline squishy they wont do ~16% current hp on top of all the other damage they'd be doing with that auto. And might encourage them to deal with the front line first.

Anyways, just my 2 cents. Bad at TL;DR's so if someone else wants to write one I might edit it in :P

47 Comments

Critmaster Garen14 votes

it needs to lose the lifesteal on the passive again. that was overkill and made health stacking actually not just wasted gold, but outright suicide.

youre literally giving te guy with a bork more ammunition against yourelf, as he deals the same % damage to your health pool, but more absolute damage to lifesteal off.

imo they should dumpster bork. the item has ruined the game and singlehandedly kicked tanks almost completely out of it. its not just a counter. it completely invalidates an entire class of champions.

i was fine with riots goal to make resistances a secondary defensive stat next to health. it was supposed to be a matter of clarity. champs that only stacked resistances looked squishy by the looks of their health bar, but were actually quite tanky. making health the primary definesive stat to make it clear that the guy youre facing is actually tanky made sense.

but the introduction of bork went too far. infinity edge carries are already dealing a stupid amount of damage and wouldnt have problems to kill tanks at the end of the day, without the existence of bork.

they have repeatedly dumpstered armor and mr, they have invalidated health stacking as a possiblility, and they have nerfed health items left and right. i think its time to take a step back.

SH Azykan2 votes

I also agree on that being a good change, but to be honest I was more looking at the damage it deals over the sustain it is offering (It being too good vs squishies as well).

Complete dumpstering isn't needed, just make it more of a niche pick where it is only really worth it in the right situations. Kinda like what they are "attempting" to do with the defensive item changes (which honestly is one of the major reasons I even made this thread) (also reupvoted you to 1, no idea why someone downvoted you...)

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

I also agree on that being a good change, but to be honest I was more looking at the damage it deals over the sustain it is offering (It being too good vs squishies as well).

Complete dumpstering isn't needed, just make it more of a niche pick where it is only really worth it in the right situations. Kinda like what they are "attempting" to do with the defensive item changes (which honestly is one of the major reasons I even made this thread)

no, youre right. deleting it is whats needed.

tanks need to be allowed to have 1 defensive stat that doesnt entirely lose its value with 1 item on their opponent. last whisper + cleaver, void staff and magic pen items, and then bork.

the resistances not being great would not be as bad if health was actually of any value.

they have absolutely ovedone it. theyre loading the game through the roof with % health damage and resistance shredding. its just too much. you can see what kindof effect that ahs. tanks are already nowhere to be seen anymore.

Hawkefire2 votes

My only issue with deleting the item is the void it leaves. If you delete the item then there is no item for AD champions that can counter health stacking. While I agree that botrk is far to strong in its current iteration, and far too useful on just about any ad champion out there (ADCs build it very often, even when not dealing with health stacking. Bruisers quite often build it as 1 of 2 damage items, sometimes they can even get away with just building that item alone. It is ridiculous just how effective the item is, even against those that aren't stacking health, however it definitely becomes even more so against those that are).

I'd be happy with removing the item, but we do need to find a way to fill in the void, because removing it would probably bring back a significantly improved metagolem (with these new items anyway) with all its fury.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

If someone is health stacking and I'm adc I'm perfectly fine with doing 1000+ damage crits to them since they have no armor.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

My only issue with deleting the item is the void it leaves. If you delete the item then there is no item for AD champions that can counter health stacking. While I agree that botrk is far to strong in its current iteration, and far too useful on just about any ad champion out there (ADCs build it very often, even when not dealing with health stacking. Bruisers quite often build it as 1 of 2 damage items, sometimes they can even get away with just building that item alone. It is ridiculous just how effective the item is, even against those that aren't stacking health, however it definitely becomes even more so against those that are).

I'd be happy with removing the item, but we do need to find a way to fill in the void, because removing it would probably bring back a significantly improved metagolem (with these new items anyway) with all its fury.

there is no need to have an item that counters health stacking, because infinity edge carries already do the job of dealing high sustained damage.

the goal isnt to give them a replacement for bork, but make tanks actually tanky to some degree. plus, everyone and his mother has % health damage build into his kit these days. so health stacking isnt as much of an issue as it was 3 seasons ago.

Erockandroll9 votes

BotRK is way too much of a multi tool. If riot wanted to promote it as the primary health shredding item for AD's then it shouldn't be as effective all around.

For starers, comparing it to it's AP counterpart, Liandry's. BotRK scales with AS. Making it an effective purchase with other Items. Making the so called "Tank shredder" ridiculously effective.

And with that in mind, it's also fairly good as a stand alone item. Because the on hit damage doesn't even need to scale. (though it can.) And because of that BotRK, along with tri force, are the only damage items a Bruiser needs. Because they don't need to scale.

And with the new Sated Devourer in the picture. they have to take even more consideration into how much DPS it can create. Particularly because the active component also helps with ganks. So it's effectiveness on Devouring Junglers is two fold.

Count Buffon2 votes

Yeah, if it were anything like Liandry's, it would be a damage over time that doesn't stack that does half damage if you don't CC first. And it would build out of Brutalizer and have no active.

Vekkna2 votes

All of that sounds completely fair, actually.

The biggest issue is that the % damage is on-hit rather than a debuff. I don't want the item gutted, but a bleed proc for a % of hp would be far more balanced and solve the Vayne, WW, Yi, Xin burst cheese we're dealing with at the moment.

The best thing about a bleed is that it won't proc from sated and Vayne players finally get to show off that "high skill cap" 550 range they always talk about without the handicap of vaporizing the enemy.

Count Buffon1 votes

Meanwhile, they're buffing MR and nerfing Armor. I'm not totally sure I get the reasoning. Because Viktor and Ahri are the big late-game anti-tanks, and five-item ADCs are useless?

Very Hard Engage4 votes

i was in a room where 7/10 players built a bork, the only 3 that didn't were maokai, and the 2 supports =/ (yasuo and zed mid, devourer jungles yi and noct, both adcs, enemy top laner i forget who, maybe a jax?)

the item isn't too strong, its just too necessary to deal damage. it has low attack and low attack speed, but the lifesteal and passive are just too good. the active is situational.

SH Azykan1 votes

which is why my change directly targeted the passive and not the other parts :P

Slamurai Jack4 votes

item 3153 is just too cheap. 3200 gold is far too little for how strong this item is. It should cost as much as a item 3072 at the very minimum.

Crowe Stalker1 votes

Ignoring that the build-path itself is also extremely forgiving. item 3072 requires a item 1038 which costs 1550 Gold in addition to the item 1053 . You don't have 1550 gold? Too bad, go farm more.

Meanwhile, item 3153 builds out of item 3144 and item 1043 with an extremely forgiving buildpath. 'Can't buy a B.F. Sword? That's okay, I build out of a Longsword and Vampiric Scepter and only cost 240'

Honestly I feel like reducing the power of it's passive to 6% and flat out removing the active (BECAUSE WHY THE HELL DOES A TANK SHREDDER HAVE BURST?) would go a very long way to balance the item.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

The active was originally made for immobile bruisers to steal movement speed and avoid being kited. The health drain of the active is dumb and should really be removed.

Crowe Stalker1 votes

On like KogMaw I could understand the active but I think Kog'maw himself could be retooled if that's needed. Champions that I imagine build it (Aatrox Irelia Kayle Jax MasterYi Udyr Trundle Nocturne) don't really need it anymore. The most common users are Vayne and Kalista who already have great self-peel.

I think if anyone needs the active they could get a few more MS but it's a strong active on an already very strong item.

I is Illiterate3 votes

I agree a thousand times. One of the main reasons some devourer junglers are so strong (cough Shyvana MasterYi ) is because of how well the sated synergizes not only with their kit, but with Blade of the Broken King. And Vayne too. Yup.

Not Katarina3 votes

I'm glad this has been brought up. There are so many threads about Vayne and Sated Devourer on the boards; how have they not come to the consensus that BOTRK is at the bottom of it? It's synergy is so well you don't need a reason to build it into any team comp. Instead of nerfing SD or even Vayne, why not look at the common denominator.

Nameless Voice2 votes

I think the problem with Blade of the Ruined King is that it is an item with two different purposes, which synergise too well with each other in a single item.

  1. Cutting through large health pools
  • % current health damage
  • % attack speed
  1. Duel survivability
  • % max health burst
  • % movement speed steal
  • burst heal
  • attack damage
  • lifesteal

That's two different purposes, both served by a single item, which also happens to be very gold efficient and build from a variety of cheap components, giving it a very attractive build path.

I wonder if the item would be more healthy if it was split into two items, one for each of its two roles?

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tk8Zmszw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-19T18:34:44.585+0000)

I think the problem with Blade of the Ruined King is that it is an item with two different purposes, which synergise too well with each other in a single item.

  1. Cutting through large health pools

  • % current health damage

  • % attack speed

  1. Duel survivability

  • % max health burst

  • % movement speed steal

  • burst heal

  • attack damage

  • lifesteal

That's two different purposes, both served by a single item, which also happens to be very gold efficient and build from a variety of cheap components, giving it a very attractive build path.

I wonder if the item would be more healthy if it was split into two items, one for each of its two roles?

Honestly I think that Blade of the Ruined King should be reworked into an actual AD counterpart of Liandry's Torment: an item that does damage based on the enemy's health whenever an physical damage ability is used.

Partholonian3 votes

It's not so much that they synergize, but that they combine to be all things to all people.

Most of the dueling power comes from Cutlass, so in order to rework it into an item that is actually focused on tank-melting, it would need a new buildpath.

Alternatively, BOTRK could stay as the dueling item (seems appropriate) as something like Cutlass + Brutalizer (which needs another upgrade path anyway), with little or no AS and no proc, and then there could be a separate item with a %HP onhit that didn't build from Cutlass or have a version of its active, and probably no lifesteal. Recurve + ???. This is the one that would stack with Devourer for tons of damage, but if it had much less or no lifesteal and no dueling/kiting active, then such a build would have clear weaknesses (at least at the 2-item stage).

Nameless Voice1 votes

Yes. That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

And then maybe nerf IE again. Promote diversity in ADC builds.

KayleeT1 votes

{quoted}

And then maybe nerf IE again. Promote diversity in ADC builds.

It's imposible to promote diversity in adc builds, they will always buy AD/AS, there is no other way to itemize

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I didn't know IE gave AS. I've been sitting here thinking it gave AD & crit, as well as a boost to crit damage.

Partholonian1 votes

That's why it's paired with a crit/AS item, usually PD or Shiv. IE is the AD item and the other one is the AS item = building AD and AS. (And crit and crit, of course.)

BOTRK gives both AD and AS on the same item, but it's one of only a few items that do, usually you have to build one of each. (After that comes the mandatory arpen item, almost always LW because really what else is there.)

But why other AD/AS builds like BT/Hurricane aren't viable... because crit is too damn good. Even if you're someone who has an innate onhit that Hurricane would allow you to melt a whole team with, you're still not going to take down any one person fast enough if you don't stack crit. (Let alone Nashor's/Hurricane, for people with an innate onhit with AP scaling... be prepared to take a lot of crap from your teammates even on a team like Yasuo/Zed where the magic damage is an advantage, simply because the raw damage is so much lower without crit.)

The one Hurricane builder only further reinforces this point -- Kallista can get away with it because she can literally get away, i.e. kite infinitely, with Hurricane's massive AS, while also allowing it to stack her pseudo onhit on multiple people and then slow them.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

with some nerfs to crit most adcs would have the option to play with ad/arp/cdr+trinity instead - but aslong as crit outscales god and the world there just wonßt be an alternative.

SH Azykan3 votes

that would likely just cause a surge of trinity force adc's to control the meta. Which I am not really opposed to, as I dislike the RNG nature of crit. But not really looking forward to a meta completely dominated by poking adc's.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Maybe a Bloodthirster buff as well. Or a buff to Essence Greaver.

Almighty Teemo1 votes

I don't want the juggernauts to faceroll in games, bork is a necessary evil

SH Azykan1 votes

my suggested change could overall make it better against health stacking. So that it still feels powerful at what it is meant to do. Just without it also melting squishies just as easy .-.

Straley1 votes

Basically has Jarvan's passive on every hit.

Chuck Charles1 votes

I may be in the minority, but as an ADC main I feel botrk is fine. It does not in any way feel like it shreds tanks by itself. if the tank is only stacking health and not armor, then yes it shreds you. but that is your own fault for not building resistances as a tank. Health for one is cheaper, and much easier to come by. if you nerf botrk, you will have a rise of fighter health based damage champions like the new titanic hydra, black cleaver, frozen mallet, etc. where the champs can deal pretty decent damage, but have such high health pools theres not really a way to deal with them. Its fine as is. It is not built on everyone and you can't just build it to win either. Its good against a health stackers and helps an adc deal with tanks. An ADC right now in the current state can by now means take down a tank by itself. but I feel if you give any high sustained DPS carry (even azir or cassiopeia) 5 to 8 seconds of free attacking on a tank, that tank should definitely go down. Thats what a carry does. carry. Tanks are tanky but shouldn't live forever. God I will never forget the days of building full pen and botrk, and having IE/PD in a full build and STILL not being able to touch the cinderhulk tanks with 10 to 15 autos. it was cancer. tanks feel fine. bork feels fine. it is strong early vs squishies and a decent item in general.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

You know an item is busted when someone buys it 3rd item when it doesn't synergize with their kit at all cough Corki cough cough

JedenVojak1 votes

The item has a number of issues you're overlooking.

  1. It only gives 25 AD, which is really really small for an AD item

  2. It's based on %current health meaning that it's both weak to finish early, due to doing less damage based on health totals, and it's on hit effect gets worse the lower the health of your enemy - which is sort of the opposite direction you really want your damage to go.

It's actually not as powerful as people make it out to be, it's really only worth the gold cost past the mid game, or vs health stackers.

The 1.5 proc on devourer is a more a problem of devourer itself, rather than BotRK, and as for Vayne, she's a champion with her own kinda limitations, although I will digress it is good for her.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

The 1.5 proc on devourer is a more a problem of devourer itself, rather than BotRK

Please identify 3 champions who are abusive with a devourer and no BOTRK.

JedenVojak1 votes

Kayle, Teemo, Xin Xhao

TwinkiePro1 votes

Teemo is understandable, but he isn't necessarily a jungler, and is generally AP. I have never seen a Kayle, nor a Xin skip BoRK, as it fits with them too well. Kayle can do all that damage from afar, as well as gaining atk speed.

Also, it is extremely powerful. 8% of 1000 hp is literally 80 bonus ad. if this is against a squishy with probably 40 armor, you will be doing damn over 60 on the first hit. add on that atk speed, and you will hit more often as well, combined with the 100 point+sllow active, and its difficult to out duel. cinderhulk tanks have trouble against this item as well, as bonus hp without armor is pointless against a BoRK as it will just do more damage. It great as a tank shredder, a dueling item, wave clearing, jungle clearing and objective securing item. give this to devourer, and its downright terrifying.

JedenVojak1 votes

{quoted}

Teemo is understandable, but he isn't necessarily a jungler, and is generally AP. I have never seen a Kayle, nor a Xin skip BoRK, as it fits with them too well. Kayle can do all that damage from afar, as well as gaining atk speed.

I've never seen a Kayle build BotRK, nor have I built one as Kayle. Nashor's tooth is the way to go for her. Also, AP Xin is undying Xin, so I feel the same way about him.

Also, it is extremely powerful. 8% of 1000 hp is literally 80 bonus ad.

AD that you lose as the target's health decreases, cannot crit, and does not count as AD for any AD scaling ability in the game.

if this is against a squishy with probably 40 armor, you will be doing damn over 60 on the first hit.

And less on each subsequent hit, where as the Jinx with Bloodthirser will constistantly do +80 AD damage a hit, forever (well until you or she dies anyway), gain a shield, and lifesteal for more.

add on that atk speed, and you will hit more often as well, combined with the 100 point+sllow active, and its difficult to out duel.

That very heavily depends on who the opponent is and how their damage works. For instance, Talon for a little more gold than that, can have a Tiamat and a Brutalizer - he's not going to care that you have a current hp auto attack drain passive, he's just going to instantly blow you up.

It's a good sustained damage item for auto attack focused champs, but it needs other things to go with it to make it good, and the champion using it needs to not care about their AD ratios at all.

cinderhulk tanks have trouble against this item as well, as bonus hp without armor is pointless against a BoRK as it will just do more damage.

This is kinda true, but the whole point of this item was to counter HP tanks in a time where stacking HP turned tanks and bruisers into unkillable gods of battle.

I really miss Spirit of the Ancient Golem. The armor + health passive was really nice.

It great as a tank shredder, a dueling item, wave clearing, jungle clearing and objective securing item. give this to devourer, and its downright terrifying.

Again, that's more a problem with devourer doubling on hits ever other attack

Devourer's second hit will do 120 + 8%+7.36% of their current health every other hit. That's the thing that's crazy.

The thing you have to remember, is that a flat AD item will very much out perform BotRK until the opponent has a sufficient amount of armor. Vs squishy champions, it's less efficient than other options.

TwinkiePro1 votes

I've never seen a Kayle build BotRK, nor have I built one as Kayle. Nashor's tooth is the way to go for her. Also, AP Xin is undying Xin, so I feel the same way about him.

For kayle and xin as junglers, its silly to skip bork with devourer, its literally a super spike in damage, and ofc kayle is going to get nashors tooth, it fits too well in her kit. as for Xin, getting bork and then building ap ensures constant lifesteal along with atk speed and bonus damage, as well as ways to catch his opponent. I have never seen a devourer champ skip bork.

AD that you lose as the target's health decreases, cannot crit, and does not count as AD for any AD scaling ability in the game.

While that is true, it isnt the only item you will build. A Jax will build trinity and tanky, a vayne bloodthirster and IE. I will say this is a niche weapon, but it fits too well on too many champions, and especially well with devourer. Not to mention this allows a vayne to proc her third hit much faster, which is also an %hp damage ability. this item alone allows her to out duel most adc's granted she can keep in range. however, A BT is an unfair comparison, as not every auto attack reliant champ can or will get it. heck, its almost primarily on adc. The problem is the versatility of bork.

That very heavily depends on who the opponent is and how their damage works. For instance, Talon for a little more gold than that, can have a Tiamat and a Brutalizer - he's not going to care that you have a current hp auto attack drain passive, he's just going to instantly blow you up. It's a good sustained damage item for auto attack focused champs, but it needs other things to go with it to make it good, and the champion using it needs to not care about their AD ratios at all.

Talon is also an unfair comparison, as all his abilities scale with ad, and is not auto attack reliant, unlike adcs and devourer champs. he's an assassin. On the other hand, there is zed, who almost always gets bork, as it not only allows him to catch his opponent, but also deal much more damage when he uses his ultimate on them, regardless of their healthpool. On top of that, zed is very much dependant on his AD ratios, meaning he rarely gets defensive items, only more damage.

This is kinda true, but the whole point of this item was to counter HP tanks in a time where stacking HP turned tanks and bruisers into unkillable gods of battle. I really miss Spirit of the Ancient Golem. The armor + health passive was really nice.

I think we can both agree on this.

Again, that's more a problem with devourer doubling on hits ever other attack. Devourer's second hit will do 120 + 8%+7.36% of their current health every other hit. That's the thing that's crazy. The thing you have to remember, is that a flat AD item will very much out perform BotRK until the opponent has a sufficient amount of armor. Vs squishy champions, it's less efficient than other options.

Devourer does need a nerf. Maybe convert it to that one item that was available for black market brawlers, where after 3 hits, the next 3 strike at full speed. it would require some more build up, but may just be more balanced. Or not, cuz that shit hurts with Yi. As for outperform, that depends on who is using the item, and who it is being used against. generally, and fighter with bork can take on an adc with BT. Yi, jax, and Xin are good examples, maybe even Shyvana as well.

I guess the best summary for this is that BoRK works way to well on Auto attack reliant champions, anyone who applies stacks through auto attacking, duelist (save fiora, as she is ability reliant, primarily), and against tanks. Oh, and devourer, but its like riven, vayne, or yasuo, it takes a knowledgeable player to use well.

PL551 votes

Make it two items maybe? One for the tanks, %health damage and attack speed, another for kiting, the slow active and lifesteal. this way Bork users would need to use up two item slots to have the same effectiveness. Since Bork right now gives so much for one item.

Haunt1 votes

If we do that we also should nerf last whisper for the same reason.

Perfect example of someone that abuses this is varus mid. He gets a tear and straight up rushes a last whisper. Why? Why does that work? Why are certain champions getting this as a second maybe third item? This item is designed to kill armor stacking tanks, but it is JUST as effective vs those without armor. You should be severely punished if you buy a last whisper as a second item when nobody on the other team has any armor.

Krinu1 votes

{{Champion:10}} player here. I jungle with her, and my build path goes basically like this: item 3710, then item 3153, and finally item 3115. That's right, I build BotRK before the "core" item on Kayle, because of how godly strong it is. By the time I finish Nashor's, I'm usually just about sated, and then I roll out into teamfights and start doing an average of 12% current HP on hit.

The problem isn't that the item is too powerful. Powerful items are good. You should feel noticeably stronger when you finish a top-tier item. The issue is that it's too good at too many different things. Sustain? It has lifesteal. Tank-busting? It has %current HP physical damage. Jungling? Again, %current HP physical damage. Dueling? On-use heal, slow, and %max HP damage burst. Overall damage boost? It has some AD and AS for autoattacking champions.

It's too strong at too many different things.

Nerfing it overall just means that it'll only ever get used by the people that are AA/AS focused with devourer. You can argue that's necessary, and maybe it is... but personally, I'd rather see it narrowed in scope to serve fewer roles.

Ironclad Dragon1 votes

The item does offer a lot. I mean, why wouldn't you build it as an ADC? The only thing it doesn't offer is critical hit chance...

JxG Shots1 votes

wow all these comments favoring the tank meta, you guys need to stop crying already, you just got new items, nerfs on assassins, and you're crying about battle of the ruined king. That item already had a nerf, it doesn't need anymore, especially with the op bruiser/tanks lurking around jungle and top lane. ADC's need this item to be viable

SH Azykan1 votes

I don't want it to be bad versus tanks. I want it to be gold efficient against them 100%. It is one of my favorite items in the game for a reason. I just don't like it being good versus literally everyone. Why is it an item meant to counter health stacking is good vs a champion like Lux who builds no health at all?

It needs to be pulled back into its niche, and at the same time toned enough so that in multiple abuse cases it isn't so overwhelming. The stats it gives are fine. It is the passive current hp% I feel needs to be reworked to base its damage off off the hp built by the target. Let it be effective against tanks...don't let it be gold efficient to rush vs a team of Kennen Khazix Lux Ezreal Morgana

Myrddin1 votes

most likely mentioned some where in this thread, but the lifesteal applying on it's % damage just needs to be reverted for it to be fine again. It also indirectly nerfs vayne and people seem to be clamoring for that

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