A Suggestion to deter mindless Lane Swaps

Dengeden·Feb 10, 2016·1 votes·343 views

Right now, pro teams have nothing to lose from sending their duo lane top. Thanks to the insane amount of gold a tower kill gives, the only difference to standard lanes is a slower XP gain for both top laners. To ensure that the motivation behind swapping remains avoiding bad matchups and/or reducing pressure on the side lanes (and it not just being the optimal thing to do), I suggest:

If a minion is killed with vision of 2 more enemy champions than allied champions, the gold for the last hit is reduced severely.

Thoughts? EDIT: The quote got messed up right as my game started, I think this made things a bit unclear.

14 Comments

TehNACHOFeb 10, 20161 votes

No.

MalhammersFeb 10, 20161 votes

Absolutely not.

lilpokflufFeb 10, 20161 votes

It'll make junglers job harder when you fail a gank and drop your adc 200 gold while you wait

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

How so? This change will at worst affect 2v0s, 3v1s, 4v2s and 5v3s.

QuephaFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How so? This change will at worst affect 2v0s, 3v1s, 4v2s and 5v3s.

It does absolutely nothing to solve your problem and is a weird mechanic that most people will forget about. It adds burden of knowledge to the game without actually solving any problems.

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

This is getting weird. How is reduced gold income not a solution? The gold efficiency from tower kills is the heart of the problem.

Of course most people will forget about it, it'll almost never come into play. (How many people do you think know you can buy and sell Banner and ZZrot hyper late game?) Sure, you'll lose some gold when you won a fight and push for the inhib. Or when you dive top lane and push down the tower (which actually might be something to worry about, maybe raise the number to 3 after 10 minutes?).

QuephaFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is getting weird. How is reduced gold income not a solution? The gold efficiency from tower kills is the heart of the problem.

Of course most people will forget about it, it'll almost never come into play. (How many people do you think know you can buy and sell Banner and ZZrot hyper late game?) Sure, you'll lose some gold when you won a fight and push for the inhib. Or when you dive top lane and push down the tower (which actually might be something to worry about, maybe raise the number to 3 after 10 minutes?).

Tower pushes are very short and the tower gold would dwarf whatever would be gained from minions anyways. The only time you go through more than a single wave of creeps is if the enemy actually tries to defend the siege, meaning your effect would be disabled

You know what your change would REALLY affect? when bot lane forces both their enemies to back and then has dramatically reduced gold income unless the support wanders outside of whatever radius this effect checks within.

It's just a ridiculously stupid change that makes no logical sense and doesn't even solve the problem.

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

It's about 4 waves. Accounting for the cannon, that's about 4x80 gold, probably a bit more. At least as much as the tower gold.

Quite frankly, such a strong 2v2 win shouldn't ever happen. You're coming up with really unlikely scenarios and calling my idea stupid. Regardless, it'll encourage supports to roam more instead of holding the ADC's hand all game. I can get behind that. And it's not like they couldn't dump their AoE spells on the wave and then leave.

I'm a bit curious as to what you think the problem actually is and wether it has a foreseeable solution.

QuephaFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Quite frankly, such a strong 2v2 win shouldn't ever happen.

Do you even play this game? Eventually one champ is going to run out of resources and need to back, and it's ridiculous for the second to stay in lane and get destroyed in a 1v2, especially when your proposed change would mean that them leaving actually reduces enemy gold income.

I'm a bit curious as to what you think the problem actually is and wether it has a foreseeable solution.

There is a problem that the game has returned (again) to the meta being a laneswap and both teams stampeding through top and bot outer turrets (and sometimes even inner turrets) because they can't respond fast enough to warrant trying to defend, so the best answer is to take a turret on the opposite side of the map. The answer (like last time) is to simply buff up turrets a little, either in their damage or durability, so it's harder to quickly take them without the enemy responding with enough power to defend the siege, NOT to implement some bizarre, unintuitive mechanic that reduces gold income during a time when champions aren't even focused on last hitting and would have a bigger effect on the traditional 1-1-1-2 laning that you're supposed to be reinforcing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOnKjYTTfi4 They don't lose 4 minion waves during the turret push. They lose ONE. Reduced gold on one minion wave would not deter them from the early tower push at all.

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

If a bot lane knows it will run out of resources, their better half will roam. What's the point of slowly losing that war?

So you want them to do the same thing they did last time, ultimately coming back to where we are now?

I have no idea how you and I saw a different video there. I was wrong, admittedly, 3 waves (as you can plainly see from the cannon) are used to kill the T1 towers, the 4th is killed in the bounce (ergo in a 1v0). Still, 3 waves is more than kill gold, so there.

QuephaFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So you want them to do the same thing they did last time, ultimately coming back to where we are now?

No, they should go back to where they were before. They just screwed up the numbers so we're seeing the same problem and the solution is the same this time around too.

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

... yes, what I said about minion waves doesn't matter, downvote and move on.

Riot nerfed towers repeatedly, those reasons are null and void?

QuephaFeb 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

... yes, what I said about minion waves doesn't matter, downvote and move on.

Riot nerfed towers repeatedly, those reasons are null and void?

Yes.

DengedenFeb 10, 20161 votes

Great, back to siege comps and nothing else.