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Is Riot Pushing Maokai to the Support Role?

RecessHero·5/3/2017, 4:02:09 PM·8 votes·3,457 views

This is an honest question. Let me explain my thoughts.

With his rework, Maokai had his innate tankiness removed from his kit. Now he has a long range engage/disengage tool that is basically a prime support spell. A staple every top-lane tank has in league is some sort of shield or innate tank ability in their kit, but Maokai no longer has that. Without this ability, Maokai will be severely lacking as an the engager/diver that he used to be, as he can be easily blown up in a fight.

The thing that is confusing to me, is that Maokai still has his old primary engage tool, his W. This allows him to lock down a target, and his old ultimate let him live. Now, if Maokai tries to pull off the flash + W engages, the enemy team could just easily turn on him and kill him. In his new kit, his W feels like a strictly disengage/peel tool. When you combine that with his new ultimate, it seems Maokai now has the kit of a support, as you don't need a lanes worth of gold to make efficient use of his kit.

Thoughts?

TL;DR: Because Maokai lost his innate tank ability, it feels like his W and new ultimate will be best utilized as a support disengager/peeler.

EDIT: I should have stated that I'm not against the idea of Maokai as a support or jungle, and that wasn't my intention of the discussion. I more wanted talk to about his top lane viability as a tank and as a primary engager/diver.

EDIT #2: Someone posted this video from LS giving his perspective on new Maokai that I thought would be really helpful to the discussion https://youtu.be/cxJMuSaLtVM?t=5m

58 Comments

chipndip15/3/2017, 5:03:34 PM5 votes

JG, not support.

HalcyonDweller5/3/2017, 4:08:02 PM3 votes

He already worked well in the support role before the rework, it's actually a lot of fun and I recommend you try it out before making judgements of it.

That said, I see what you mean, and I agree with your concerns. I think that they were supposedly aiming to make him better in the jungle, but we shall see how that goes. I hope that he does not lose viability in other positions just to become useful in one or two.

RenownedWheat425/3/2017, 4:11:31 PM3 votes

{quoted}

With his rework, Maokai had his innate tankiness removed from his kit.

No he didn't. His passive now heals for a HELL of a lot more. It's considerably more valuable. He no longer has the option of AoE DR, but his sustain is considerably better than it used to be.

Also, flash+r is a ridiculously awesome engage tool. If the enemy still tries to run from your ult, just slow them with the two/three options you have available to you (two regularly, three if jungle with blue).

All this said, Maokai worked well in Support before and this doesn't really push him more to that role. If anything, it's less of a good idea for the loss of the DR.

Gank set-up for jungle Mao is gonna be great though.

woodvsmurph5/3/2017, 6:29:25 PM2 votes

Actually, he is being pushed back into the jungle where he was played long ago. More damage from saplings via bushes... now where do we have lots of those?...

Ralanr5/3/2017, 4:17:25 PM2 votes

He was pushed from the top lane to the jungle.

SpongebobIsLife5/3/2017, 4:54:37 PM2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxJMuSaLtVM

Go to 5:16

Mecha MaIphite5/3/2017, 4:06:24 PM2 votes

basically a prime support spell

Not really.

Even if it was, consider that Galio's rework made him into a peeling champion with a follow-up ult, and yet he can still be played top, jungle, and sometimes mid.

sta supra5/3/2017, 6:04:55 PM2 votes

Each time Maokai casts a spell or is struck by an enemy’s spell, Sap Magic’s cooldown is reduced by 4 seconds (once per spellcast)

10/30/50/70/90/110/130 flat, plus 4.5/5.5/6.5/7.5/8.5/9.5/10.5/% maximum health (at levels 1/6/9/11/13/15/17)

COOLDOWN 30/25/20 seconds (at levels 1/6/17)

this is from the 7.9 patch notes

after playing with a maokai in game and seeing these states i think he is going to be best in top or jungle as he is going to want to be on the front line so he can heal fast from enemy spells that hit him. supports have low gold income meaning he wouldn't be able to get as much health and resistances to keep him going in the front.

SpecterVonBaren5/3/2017, 5:26:01 PM1 votes

No. Even before the rework his kit looks like it should be fantastic for a support on paper. P gets charged more with more people in bot lane, lots of CC from his Q, W, and E, E can be used as a pseudo ward, ult can give your carry damage reduction.

But in practice it just doesn't work. I can't tell you WHY it didn't work whenever I tried it, but it just didn't. I don't see how the rework will change that either. If I were to hazard a guess as to why it doesn't work, it's that he's too item dependent to work in bot lane despite all he has in his kit.