Let's see who's better! Oh, Hexdrinker, I guess it's another farm lane.

Lauchmelder·May 11, 2017·8 votes·1,420 views

Seriously, remove Lifeline on Hexdrinker for christs sake.

Or give the stasis active, because that's exactly how fucking oppressive Hexdrinker is in lane.

86 Comments

The Lost MarblesMay 11, 20176 votes

I really don't see why Hexdrinker's shield lasts for 5 seconds and doesn't decay over the duration.

Maw I can understand because it's a completed item, but Hexdrinker is just a component. A component that already gives a lot of MR relatively, considering you only get 10 more MR for completing it.

Also, Hexdrinker is 102.31% efficient. Seeker's needs 12 stacks before it matches that efficiency. A fully stacked Seeker's IS more efficient stat-wise than Hexdrinker, but that's not accounting for the Lifeline shield.

Hexdrinker's passive interacts with itself, similar to Thornmail. Given the lowest amount of magic resistance possible with this item (30 + 35 = 65), then the damage taken calculation (100 ÷ 165 = 0.606), then the raw damage conversion ([110~280] ÷ 0.606), the shield will absorb around 182 to 462 raw magic damage.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20173 votes

Hexdrinker allows you to survive burst. Maw allows you to survive the burst and then potentially win the fight.

The Lost MarblesMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hexdrinker allows you to survive burst. Maw allows you to survive the burst and then potentially win the fight.

Hexdrinker also lets you survive poke pretty well too, considering you get a 5 second shield when they DO poke you down to 30%, plus 35 MR still being a not-too-insignificant amount of extra resistance.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20175 votes

And when you're invariably melee into a ranged matchup, that's valuable and necessary.

Removing it from the item system would require massive buffs to the characters themselves.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20172 votes

You know how you sound here?

"It's a necessary item because you need it when you're melee." Or you could, you know, learn how to dodge skillshots like anybody else.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20174 votes

Sure, if you want to give every melee character +15 base movespeed, that sounds doable.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20172 votes

Learn to dodge, if I can do it you can do it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20173 votes

lol learn to dodge?

ok u are the ony crying over a passive on an item and trying to tell someone else to be better at the game

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Go back to school if you don't understand the difference between complaining and crying. Because you use the word "crying" too much overall.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20173 votes

dude just realize with all the downvotes you have gotten over this post you are crying that you cant beat the passive of an item ... and that you are wrong

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Wow yea, I'm totally gonna agree with the insane AD bias AD mains have when it comes to their items.

Suck it up, nobody wants to lose their OP shit.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20173 votes

lol dude you are just wrong deal with it

the sooner you accept it the better it will be

TyrekGoldenspearMay 11, 20173 votes

cough

If the mage is a devious one, (like me) you will only throw your spells at the melee when they stop moving to CS, throwing the "dodge" argument out the window.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Considering Riot decided that Assassins need waveclear it's not even a problem for them. Just look at Zed, Talon and LB.

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Zed's waveclear is shit unless he uses W which is self-harming because it gets rid of his only escape or engage tool.

Talon's waveclear isn't that bad, but it's still not amazing by any means and any ranged matchup can easily bully him as long as they respect the cheese.

LeBlanc lost just about all her damage in return for the waveclear no LB player wanted.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Zed has a free last hitting passive so farming under tower is no problem for him.

Talon has decent waveclear.

Leblanc has waveclear, if it warranted her changes or not doesn't matter.

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

And the mage just hits him whenever he does go to CS.

Talon's is standard.

I think you forgot the part where she has no meaningful damage. It doesn't matter if she clears the wave. The waveclear was nerfed too a while back.

Hexdrinker is also shit for damage for waveclearing purposes as opposed to straight rushing a Ghostblade then a second Dirk, which gives Talon enough to W clear at least backrow in early-mid.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Way to blatantly state your double standards.

When a mage freezes near/under the tower it's a problem for the assassin, but obviously mages are excempt from ganks by the enemy jungler.

Not an argument.

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Because a mage can wait until the wave comes just beyond tower fire range, then vaporize the entire wave within a second.

If an AD tries to do that, it's going to take them at least half a dozen seconds or more to properly time everything so they don't miss any CS.

Learn what you're talking about?

TyrekGoldenspearMay 11, 20173 votes

Mhm.

Let's look at them eh?

Talon ain't waveclearing with just hexdrinker. Rake will leave the minions with an irritating sliver of health, meaning he can lose farm if he isn't careful. Additionally the second he uses rake on the minions, the mage can harass him until it comes back up. Without W pre6, most of Talon's damage is locked away.

Zed's Q does less damage after the first thing hit. Does Ahri's Q have that feature? And who uses his E for anything but waveclear, amiright? insert laugh track here

LB has to throw herself in harms way to waveclear. Hit her then.

TyrekGoldenspearMay 11, 20172 votes

I am pretty certain Azir can chew through the hexdrinker with soldier pokes until lifeline procs, if indeed Azir is the mage in this scenario, as I know you main Azir.

If it's any other mage, then just keep your distance and poke. There really is no reason for you to get in melee range for them to get you, before or after they get hexdrinker.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20174 votes

I consider Azir to be one of my mains, but I don't play him enough to call him THE main actually.

While yes, he can chew through Hexdrinker I don't really think it's balanced if he's one of the only mages that can do this. Hexdrinker should be a defensive option, not an "Oh, I screwed up, RESET!" button.

TyrekGoldenspearMay 11, 20174 votes

Well technically any DPS mage from Taliyah to Cassiopeia can chew through a hexdrinker, I see your point.

But let me make a counter argument. Why would it be balanced for a melee champion to have no way to get to the mage with range advantage without some kind of defense that won't gimp their build becuase a mage exists in their lane?

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Most ADs have a gapcloser, so that shouldn't be a problem.

While yes, they should have a defensive option it SHOULD gimp their build (again the Seeker's argument). It doesn't need both MR AND a shield.

JoxcabMay 11, 20173 votes

Yes, a gapcloser every dozen or so seconds makes up for resourceless free ranged poke from autos and range on just about every ability. Wait, no, it fucking doesn't.

Oh cool, he gapclosed. Oh right, ranged abilities still work point blank.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20172 votes

Mimimi i picked melee into ranged, I should get a free win regardless.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yN9E7TE4,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-11T20:34:03.181+0000)

Moooooooooooooooooommy! The mean mr melee isn't letting me bully and kill him for free! He keeps playing well and buying items that mean he doesn't die and he's so stupid and it's unfair and I haaaaaaaaate it! Moooooooooommy, nerf it to hell please please you gotta do this if you don't do this I'll hate you forever and I'll hope you die!

Suck it up, kiddo.

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Mimimi i picked ranged into melee, i deserve the free win just for being able to constantly harass with ranged unmissable autoattacks and long range abilities and powerclear under turret if they shove, vaporize waves and burstshove if they leave to roam

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

You know the difference between both of us?

I want balance, an AP having a fair matchup against an AD where outplays can happen.

You just want APs to be gutted. Worthless opinion.

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

How am I saying I want APs gutted when I literally never suggested nor believe they need any further nerfs to their archetype?

Your entire argument is subjective, biased, slanting the argument, and flawed. Something something about worthless something something.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

It's quite simple. You literally ask for nerfs to AP due to them being ranged.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20173 votes

It's about time you grew the hell up and learned to argue with people about what they actually said, not what you wished they said.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

It's about time you stop hiding behind a boards smurf, making your entire "arguments" worthless.

Either do that or goodbye, cause that account gets placed in my blacklist now. I'm tired of talking to a coward.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20172 votes

Kid, you're the biggest coward here. You seize upon any excuse to ignore the words of people who live in reality, and certainly aren't showcasing any sort of intellectual courage.

BTW, your little "blacklist" is hilarious. Ohhhhhhh nooooo, some little paste eater who shouldn't even be off of apron strings has "blacklisted" me. Whatever shall I dooooooooo~?

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Quote where I said I wanted a nerf.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Mimimi i picked ranged into melee, i deserve the free win just for being able to constantly harass with ranged unmissable autoattacks and long range abilities and powerclear under turret if they shove, vaporize waves and burstshove if they leave to roam

Reading between the lines is a thing you know. You literally asked for APs to get invalidated because "screw ranged".

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Oh, whoops. Forgot you love to pull assumptions out of your ass. That's not wanting a nerf. That's explaining why Hexdrinker is fine. Not saying Hexdrinker needs buffs. Not saying AP needs nerfs. Literally just talking about why Hexdrinker exists.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yN9E7TE4,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-05-11T20:46:23.706+0000)

You know the difference between both of us?

I want balance, an AP having a fair matchup against an AD where outplays can happen.

You just want APs to be gutted. Worthless opinion.

He's arguing for the status quo. You know, the one where AP champs currently dominate midlane and only Yasuo and Talon have winrates that approach positive (just kidding, they're literally within margins of error of 50% exactly).

You're arguing that Hexdrinker should be absolutely gutted, and every AD champ midlane with it.

Suuuuuuure, kid. You just want things to be "balanced". Riiiiiiiiiight.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20172 votes

Yes, Hexdrinker SHOULD be gutted, because you either buy the god damn fucking full item item 3156 or you deal with the mage in some other way.

It's not like mages have to do the same with your precious AD mids.

And don't you dare bring winrate into this you biased kid, there are simply more AP mids than AD mids.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20172 votes

AD mids: Zed Talon Yasuo Jayce

Of them, none have even a 51% winrate.

AP mids: Too many to list. Of the ones that have a 51+% winrate: Ahri Kayle Anivia Xerath Kassadin AurelionSol Annie Karthus Fizz Ziggs Velkoz TwistedFate

But sure kiddo, it's Hexdrinker that should be gutted.

JorenciceMay 11, 20171 votes

Eww karthus mid?

Top ftw.

LyingOnLineMay 11, 20171 votes

HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20174 votes

http://imgur.com/a/xBKOw

so in this image it shows the top 15 champs with the highest win rate as mid lane only one of them is an AD champ but u wanna say the game isnt balanced and favors ad champs.

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

Now make a list of AD mids and AP mids and get the realization.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20173 votes

its not my list its stats provided from the game it self

LauchmelderMay 11, 20171 votes

I said: List all AD mids and AP mids and get the realization.

If you are too bad to do it, here's a hint: There's more AP mids than AD mids, so there MIGHT be a bigger winrate on AP mids.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20174 votes

man how thicked skulled are ya ?

it dont matter the amount of ap mid vs ad mids what i showed is win% of the top 15 champs who are in mid ... and 14 of them are AP champs

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 11, 20173 votes

if ad mids were so strong and unfairly overpowered they would be played more mid and have higher win rates but they arent

you are just a child who is bias and pissed you got beat and cant realize how wrong you are

JoxcabMay 11, 20172 votes

Meanwhile this thing is still completely missing the point.

AD mids. Don't. Have. Good winrates. At all. AP mids. Dominate. Said. Good. Winrates. For. Mid.

Does that help? If every single midlaner was around 50% and it was just AP mids are in the top because they're like 50.3% and assassins are like 50.2%, no one would care because that's not an issue. That's not the case. AP mids have 50-55%. ADs have 45-49.X%.

TyrekGoldenspearMay 11, 20173 votes

While you are correct in saying most do, it doesn't account for the others.

Additionally, the reason the ADs get MR, AD, and a shield is becuase of one simple fact:

The mage can harm the AD with no risk to themselves, while the AD can only harm the mage by putting themselves in harm's way.