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Morgana nerfs: but why?

Morgana Deus··15 votes·4,015 views

So let me get this straight. Morgana has been strong for one patch and she needs nerfed. Yasuo has been strong for 6 years and there are still no nerfs. Why?

Morgana mid has a ridiculous amount of counter play. You literally pick an assassin with a projectile dodge, a long range mage that power pushes, or a top laner and you obliterate her.

Who are her best matchups mid? Okay let's see:

Malzahar: Malzahar can't ult but he will shove Morgana forever and she can't leave lane to gank. He scales and she doesnt.

Leblanc: Out roams Morgana and with dematerializers can push at a comparable rate.

Annie: Still one shots people through black shield

Veigar: Literally just free farms and carries the game.

Ekko: Gets dematerializers and shoves her into tower and never interacts with her.

Fizz: If your reflexes are slightly slower than Fizz's you automatically die, but hey you can cancel the slow on his ult sometimes if you're really quick. Oh and good luck hitting Q on a trickster Fizz who has a brain.

Let's talk about her worst match ups:

Zed: You may as well go afk or spam for jungle help nonstop

Yasuo: You may as well go afk or spam for jungle help nonstop

Talon: Out pushes her and massively out roams her.

Xerath: Out pushes her, out scales her, out pokes her.

Who exactly is Morgana mid hurting? Against an evenly skilled opponent she stalemates the lane and scales slightly below average. The only thing abusable about her is having her as a "second" support late game for a hyper carry on your team. Which has more to do with team comp than it does Morgana. Subsitute Lulu mid and you have a similar situation.

Honestly, after 10 years one tricking this champion and having played every match up at least up to a platinum level I'm pretty sure Morgana is not a problem for 95% of the player base. I'm not sure if there's some ridiculous LCS or challenger shit happening right now with her, but for the majority of us players she's currently only slightly behind other mids.

By the way, Zilean mid is a higher win rate. Where are the Zilean nerfs? Oh you mean Zilean is a situational pick? Hmmmm. HMMMMMM. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Sounds a lot like Morgana.

57 Comments

Infernape11 votes

Who exactly is Morgana mid hurting? Against an evenly skilled opponent she stalemates the lane

I'm guessing that's precisely the reason why she's getting nerfed. Morgana mid basically stalemates any lane and provides zero interaction. You throw out your W, clear a wave, rinse and repeat. You push fast enough to deny the enemy from roaming, not to mention you're safe enough to be hard to gank or tower dive because of her Q and Black Shield.

Morgana Deus8 votes

OH I CAN'T INSTANTLY KILL MY OPPONENT WITH MY ASSASSIN AND I HAVE TO ADAPT OH NO.

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

Look, fam, we both know there's no adapting past an opponent you can't do anything against. The assassin doesn't even get a lane phase, which, for an assassin that isn't Kassadin, basically means not existing at all.

It's not a case of not being able to instantly kill their opponent, it's a case of not being able to do anything to your opponent at all come level 5, when they stop having to stay close to the minion wave for anything.

Illabethe1 votes

Not true at all.

Zed and Akali both can lane versus Morgana easily. Shurikens outrange Morg's Everything but Q, and only cost Energy, not Mana. And W in lane phase does not full kill minions, so Morg does have to auto or use Q (waste more mana) to clear.

I know you like toting some argument that you think exists, but try the matchup. It's not as bad as you imagine it. Assassins also by far deal AD damage, so Morgana's one of the easiest lane busters to assassinate without dying (Black shield doesn't block marks or AD damage). She can be farming under her own turret passively with W (and losing 40% of her minions because she can't auto) and a Zed can kill her before she can actually react and kill him.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Okay. Fam. It's not an argument I "think" exists. I've played it many times.

Morg mid is my default against every assassin because it beats every one (barring Kassadin).

Yeah your E isn't useful against Zed (Except for his passive), but the simple fact is you never need to be in range of his R. Plus, you get RoA first item, which fucks every assassin.

Source: I've played the matchup way, WAY more than you've seen it.

Illabethe2 votes

I have over 4.3 million Morgana mastery and have played since Season 3. What do I know.

Zed: goes item 3142 , living Shadows past any Q, Ults, Shurikens, You're dead. Unless Zhonya's is up. And a good Zed will time around a Zhonyas. A good Zed can do all this in about .6 seconds, so you can't even ult him.

Spicy Rice2 votes

4.3 million mastery yet won't q backwards to hit zed as he comes out of ult?

Illabethe2 votes

I can but it's unreliable. I'm talking about good Zeds, not Zeds who hesitate. I've also seen a recurrence of item 3814 in a lot of Zed builds. Also, Q doesn't stop Zed from doing the damage he needs to kill you. His Shurikens will still hit you and proc death on R. What Q will do is prevent him from going to a Living shadow. But...... if he kills you in 2 seconds, he's going to kill you before your ult procs, so all you basically did is possibly create an opportunity for your team to kill him.

At times the success rate feels like throwing a Q at a Master Yi as he Alpha Strikes.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Okay. 4.3m mastery is nice and all. But what lane is that experience in?

Support Morgana will have a vastly different experience against Zed than mid Morgana will. And even mid Morgana will have a different experience depending on their items.

A quick look into your match history shows, of your 5 most recent Morg games, 2 were support, in 2 you went item 3040, and one you went item 3285. In none of those 5 did you get RoA, which is a core item to this working.

Support Morg will have a miserable time against Zed, unless you're outplaying his W and R heavily with your Q. Mid Morgana doesn't have near as bad a time against him because she can just max W and never have to come near him again after level 5. You do really need RoA to truly win against him, though, since, like most assassins, he has a hard time getting through high amounts of health.

And The Lettuce3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yFqEA84H,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-13T23:50:02.528+0000)

OH I CAN'T INSTANTLY KILL MY OPPONENT WITH MY ASSASSIN AND I HAVE TO ADAPT OH NO.

I'm guessing you haven't fought a good morg in lane. Your never getting close to her. She shoves hard with no interaction at safe distance, you can't cc her due to shield and if you manage to get past those issues she still has q to walk away scott free. It is one of the most boring lanes in the game to play against.

Morgana Deus5 votes

I'm literally a Morgana one trick for 10 years. I know how a Morg lane plays. I know that most mages out push her. I know that she has terrible kill pressure. Who gives a shit if it is boring? Heimerdinger is boring too and just as uninteractive.

Maybe not every player finds being all ined nonstop by Leblanc is a good time.

Iota Theta2 votes

Heimerdinger is boring too and just as uninteractive.

Probably not the best fall back for your argument. People hate Heimer lanes as well because it’s boring and uninteractive and his turrets just push against you.

Drop The Fire1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yFqEA84H,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-14T00:15:08.174+0000)

I'm literally a Morgana one trick for 10 years. I know how a Morg lane plays. I know that most mages out push her. I know that she has terrible kill pressure. Who gives a shit if it is boring? Heimerdinger is boring too and just as uninteractive.

Maybe not every player finds being all ined nonstop by Leblanc is a good time.

So wait u think morgana dus didn't deserve those nerfs i say nerf her q even more tbh because the skill shot is so big and easy to hit its not even a skillshot att all and it stuns for 4 sec long lol

Morgana Deus1 votes

Literally been a OTP Morgana since season 1. I think I understand the lane pal. I've fought just about every matchup hundreds of times versus players ranging from silver to grandmaster.

Eedat11 votes

Kinda shows you had absolutely zero intention on having an actual discussion and only your narrative was going to be acceptable lmao. The guy is literally a tank support main and you respond with throwing a hissy fit accusing him of having an assassin bias.

Saianna4 votes

This obvious overreaction is how it is tbh. Morganas lane stalling is totally fine. It actually makes games slower as assassins can't kill her nor they can't roam too often.

Mages had to adapt to the new mobile assassins with waveclears. Or rather players had to, as Riot gave not a half of shit to help them in the new way ofp laying. Now mages have their waveclear reduced or even removed only because assassins (they have waveclear for some reason) need to roam.

Riot is artifically shaping the assassin-friendly meta.

Infernape2 votes

I don't play assassins apart from full AD J4 and Ekko. I actually main tanks so nice strawman.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

...Some part of me really hopes that you meant "Full AD Ekko"

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

This. Your QER make it suicide to dive you, and your W allows you to farm and poke without consequence. You have no reason to interact with the opponent until you can kill them, and there's no way for them to force you to interact before then.

Source: I fucking abuse that shit every time they pick an assassin and I'm mid.

aezens1 votes

That´s a common misconception. You could do that with a lot of champions and I think people dont understand what´s really happening.

To put it simple: neither does she have the best wave clear nor the best escape. Don´t get me wrong it´s not bad or something but there are better options in both categories. So why people feel this way? In order to understand that I´ll take Ekko as an example. He can wave clear super easy and you have good escape as well so in theory you could farm and be ungankable the whole time if you want. But in contrast to Morgana he has very usefull tools to engage or poke you as well and most player want to make use of this. However at the same time this is what makes him vulnerable.

Morgana on the other hand is very limited in her offensive gameplay especially pre lv 6. No poke, very low aa-range, slow projectile and very predictable engage if you have your ultimate up. In conclusion you dont even bother risking aggressive moves against you opponent unless you are catching them offguard.

It´s essentially the counterpart to the Yasuo syndrom. They want to engage and fight you all the time because it´s very rewarding if you succeed. As Morgana you want to play more tactical. The problem is a lot of people don´t like slow past games. They want to see action and engages especially in pro games. That´s why those playstyles are prefered by riot.

Eedat7 votes

Yasuo has been strong for 6 years and there are still no nerfs.

He hasnt lol. He's just been really annoying for 6 years.

DuskDaUmbreon7 votes

Maybe one day the boards will learn that a champion being annoying and a champion being OP aren't the same thing.

...Today is not that day.

Illabethe2 votes

This just says you haven't played relevant elos. A good Yasuo literally denies any lane phase at all, and resets his Q every 4 seconds, and moves around too fast to actually skill shot between Wind walls.

You literally have to have an on click ability that is considered a Laser to really lock him down and have a chance. Ie ...... Karma's W. Even then, a good Yasuo will still have time to prime a tornado, and will cast it to knockup the Karma.

Some Melees can give him trouble, early on, because they can ignore walls and mechanically work at a follow range, and often have dashes to get there. But even then, Yasuo will almost certainly hit an ult, and the matchup turns around horribly after he has a couple items.

Eedat1 votes

This just says you haven't played relevant elos.

Lmao what? I am a bit curious how you playing in Silver ELO does make everything you just said relevant by your own logic? Clearly since I'm gold I shoudnt have a say in anything. You being silver must therefore mean that entire rant is completely meaningless. Using your logic, not mine.

Illabethe1 votes

I'm Diamond II ......

hrooza dota 1 votes

i mean no body gonna believe you are that. you can say it as much as you want but until you post from a diamond noone will believe you.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

I'm Diamond II ......

Yet you always post from a Silver II account. People won’t take that claim seriously without hard evidence.

Eedat1 votes

LMAO no you're not. You ended last season Silver 4 with over 1000 ranked games on the account. Are you trolling me or do you actually expect people to believe you?

Illabethe1 votes

You're free to believe whatever you want. This is the internet after all.

Eedat1 votes

Oh in that case I'm actually bjerg on my other account. Prove me wrong lol

Illabethe1 votes

Different champs, just a counter to a weak accusal, and your playstyle doesn't suggest it.

Eedat1 votes

Nope I am bjerg and this is the account I use to play like a monkey while blindfolded. You can't 100% prove me wrong, therefore it is true. It's as believable as a high diamond player being 1000+ games hard stuck in low silver. So since I am challenger and a pro player on my other account, I think it's you that hasn't played in a relative ELO and therefore your opinion is invalid.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

This just says you haven't played relevant elos. A good Yasuo literally denies any lane phase at all, and resets his Q every 4 seconds, and moves around too fast to actually skill shot between Wind walls.

You realize mid Yasuo is currently doing worse than mid Morgana in diamond+, right? He’s..actually doing better botlane than he is top or mid.

Also, a weird claim about windwall, since rank 1 it has a 26 second CD, and since he usually maxes E second, so at first rank he can only E through a target once every 10 seconds, rank 2 is 9 seconds, rank 3 is 8. For the majority of Yasuo skill orders, that puts him at level 10, sonce they max Q. He’ll still pause plenty of times to be hit.

JackMcSnipeyz4 votes

Morgana 55% winrate, 3% pickrate. (Mid) Support 52% winrate, 19% pickrate.

Yasuo 49% winrate (lol) 10% pickrate (mid) Sub 50% in every lane that isnt bot.

The faster you stop using the boogyman argument as to why your main shouldnt be nerfed, the more credible your post will become.

yingwhy3 votes

You said the reason yourself. 95% of games vs Morgana end in stalemates. While that might seem balanced, remember that reliably not losing lane is fundamentally better than 50/50 coinflipping lanes, which, combined with the fact that she has insane levels of peel that make it impossible to chase, dive, or kill Morgana unless you are an assassin who rushes QSS makes her a pick that's incredibly safe against almost every matchup.

OhWOWsoTrendy3 votes

I feel a lot of people think its a "bad champion design" for a mid lane but look at most of your picks mid. Its a far cry from back in the day when mages ruled the scene. Control mages were 99.9% played mid lane for the control they brought to teams. If you picked an assassin and couldnt snowball you were useless the whole game unless you found a way to get ahead

However, fighting against a Morgana isnt hard, nor is it impossible as some of you dim wits put it. It's simply a matter of baiting out skills like you would any other damn champion. Yasuo can do this rather easily, it can be an exciting skill match-up between the two. Zed doesnt give two shits about CCing morg or her black shield, and good luck ever rooting a zed.

You guys put so much emphasis on how shes ungankable. Teemo top lane post 6 is? Camille Top lane with E up is? Jax with his Q up is gankable? You guys sound like you have no idea how to wait for an ability or get it baited before trying to gank. Morgana without E is a totally different beast. and she is EXTREMELY vulnerable.

Saianna2 votes

Riot removes mage waveclear to help assassins roam more. Now we have mages that can't waveclear and usually end up just as expendable CC bots vs assassins or ADCs.

Funny how assassins have more waveclear than mages now. Just.. amazing balance decisions since S4.

Nadiri1 votes

Yasuo isn't strong. Yas players always feed me and let me win game. They always end up 0/10 or even more in low elo. It is just skill champ... I have more problems with fiora literally anyone can pick her and 2 E hit 5 people are ded..... Morgana meant to be support therefore there is no reason for her to get fed , she needs nerf.

Morgana Deus7 votes

Okay then let's just come out and say it: Morgana is not allowed to be a mid. Let's just say it. Let's get an offical riot statement that Morgana will never be a mid again because this patch is literally just designed to force players to play Morgana in bot lane.

Apocalypsic2 votes

It’s not going to kill Morg mid. Her W is kind of crazy right now. That they didn’t outright remove the execute scaling portion AGAIN shows their support for Morg mid, they’re just making it healthier for everyone else too.

The thigh guy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yFqEA84H,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-13T23:34:26.917+0000)

Okay then let's just come out and say it: Morgana is not allowed to be a mid. Let's just say it. Let's get an offical riot statement that Morgana will never be a mid again because this patch is literally just designed to force players to play Morgana in bot lane.

Riot only wants assassins and burst mages playable mid. That’s basically how they want the game.

Et Tu Geddn XNa 1 votes

Morgana is designed to be a support champion and whenever one of her abilities specially the W gets too strong it makes her very very strong as a support pick. I would say yes riot doesnt really want to see her mid which is why her W is often the one thing hit by nerfs and most of her other kit are left untouched whenever she is strong.

Ahri Baka1 votes

actually as a Ahri Neeko main , Morgana is literally my worst match up in the game , I perma ban her no matter what Simply because of the spell shield and actually , in my experience Ahri vs Morgana mid , it was actually horrible , especially in early , Morgana can shove the wave with W and forced me to farm under tower and lose a lot of CS for it Tho I don't think she is worth getting nerfs

Morgana Deus1 votes

Ahri vs Morgana is Ahri favored heavily. Hit 6 and you cannot die to her. Like your positioning has to be really, really bad.

Illabethe1 votes

Depends how good the Morgana is too. Morgana CAN Flash- follow an Ahri a bit during her ult, and if she can secure the stun, Ahri will lose. But without Flash...... Yeah..... Ahri begins to either shred or get away.

Ahri Baka1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yFqEA84H,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-03-14T03:58:17.625+0000)

Ahri vs Morgana is Ahri favored heavily. Hit 6 and you cannot die to her. Like your positioning has to be really, really bad.

I said it's not about dying to her She can just out shove me and and make me lose cs Sure I can't kill and she won't kill me either, but she out scales me and her spell shield is a nightmare to me

Iota Theta1 votes

By the way, Zilean mid is a higher win rate. Where are the Zilean nerfs? Oh you mean Zilean is a situational pick?

Well, he is picked less often and only has a .2% higher winrate at Diamond and up..

Your Otter1 votes

It's not a terrible nerf though, could've been worse. But yeah, she got nerfed for no reason. I think Riot should focus on other champions, rather than Morgana. Yasuo Zed Riven

Vulkus I1 votes

Mage players complain so fucking much, lul.

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