My issues with the new Eve, and how I'd like to see them fixed.

Bârd··40 votes·2,790 views

tl;dr

Eve's early game is far too weak, and her late game isn't strong enough to compensate. She's nearly unplayable in lanes, yet can't exert any level of jungle pressure pre-6, rendering her essentially useless. Her target access is garbage. She's far too slow after Dark Frenzy was removed.

Demon Shade

Look, I get what you're trying to do by gating her stealth to post-6, but it's not the right way to go

Eve has a decent clear speed, a fragile clear, and low early damage. That's nothing new, but old Eve could at least use her marginal damage to surprise an enemy.

Now, Eve is weak to the point of absurdity until level 6. As a jungler, this is a death sentence. Did you learn nothing from the old Warwick?

Eve should be weak pre-6, but you guys didn't need to take her stealth away to do that; you already did it with the rest of her kit.

Hate Spike

Eve's Q, her primary source of damage, deals a grand total of 130/180/230/280/330 base damage with a whopping 195% AP ratio.

Doesn't sound so bad, eh? Well, look past the pretty number and into how you get it. All of it is insanely conditional.

You have to land the entire spell to get that number. Sounds reasonable, but it's quite problematic.

First, the most obvious case: if you miss the dart. Missing the dart means you only have the un-enhanced hate spikes, which will deal a total of 75/90/105/120/135 (+ 90% AP) damage. This is reasonable.

Second, less obvious: if you can't get the hate spikes off. The vast majority of the damage lies in the enhanced hate spikes. If this is the case, you will only deal 25/30/35/40/45 (+ 30% AP) damage.

For context, the initial damage from a single hit of Teemo's poison is 10/20/30/40/50 (+ 30% AP) magic damage.

This is a farily common occurence. The new Eve is extrordinarily squishy, and it's often pretty damn risky to stay in range long enough to use your hate spikes. The CD between spikes is half a second, and you have three of them. This means that Eve, being as squishy as she is, has to run at you for 1.5 seconds before she can get the full damage off, hoping she doesn't die in the process. Maybe if the barrage CD was reduced by rank, it would be more feasable, but it isn't. Instead, it's only reduced by CDR. Eve should be all about her burst, not spamming at 45% CDR.

The other issue with this is her newfound lack of mobility. Even if she can survive their damage, anyone with an escape can get out of her Q range. Without Dark Frenzy to keep Eve in range, HATE SPIKE DOESN'T WORK. Going off of that, she can't keep up with anybody in a fight in general, since she's gimped into buying Mobis instead of boots that would actually help her keep up.

The spell has pitiful damage in the early-mid game. It only gets rolling once Eve gets lots of AP, at which point she's largely a mute point due to how unlikely it is for her to get the full spell off on a priority target.

Allure

I like the concept of this spell, but it needed a little more brainstorming.

Ok. Eve marks her target and... now what?

There are only three courses of action an Eve can take.

  • Hope to tag the enemy with a max range Q.
  • Ult backwards and attack at melee range.
  • Flash for it.

If she does the first, she's just a worse version of Elise. In any case, the charm would wear off before Eve can get the rest of her damage off.

If she does the second, she now lacks both the necessary damage to finish the kill and her escape.

If she does the third, you're down a flash on a squishy champion. Since your ult will get used in the fight most likely, this makes you hella vulnerable for a while.

Old Eve would have loved this spell, but it doesn't work here. The reason is simple: New Eve is fucking slow.

Riot, you seem to have underestimated how important Dark Frenzy was to Eve's kit.

That spell, despite how basic it may seem, was the reason why her old passive worked. She didn't meander out of stealth like she does now, she pounced.

Because of this major issue with her kit, Eve is all but forced into building Mobis and Protobelt to get to the target initially, even though she'd really rather be buying other items.

Protobelt is fine and dandy, but Mobis are where the problem is. Eve is roam heavy. Mobis should be a strong option on her, but being forced into buying them causes issues with every other active spell.

Whiplash

Whiplash is an amazing spell... once you get Lich Bane and Ludens. The issue is that you're forced to delay that powerspike with a Protobelt to even use the damn thing.

It suffers from the same issues as Allure: you are too slow to reach the target in the first place. This means you need mobis,

Delaying the power spike would be somewhat okay... if the base damage on this thing hadn't been gutted.

Ravage did 230 (+1.0 AP) (+1.0 bonus AD) damage at max rank. Whiplash, when empowered, does 140 (+6% max HP) (+4% max HP per 100 AP). The flat damage was nearly halved, and the % HP damage doesn't do a whole lot against the targets Eve is gonna be gunning for.

The movement speed on the spell helps keep up with her Q, but she really needed it a couple seconds earlier so she could land the damn thing in the first place.

Last Caress

First off, Widowmaker was a better name.

Other than that, this spell is incredible. There's almost nothing I don't like about it.

Almost.

Last Caress is an incredible spell that is broken by Eve requiring Mobis.

This spell is Eve's only way out aside from "kill everything".

Thing is, Eve is really slow after using it since her Mobis are almost always deactivated by the spell, and her Demon Shade is put on full CD by the same thing.

This means that, unless you went over a wall, the backwards blink is just not enough to get you out. The enemy can see exactly where you are, and they are definitely faster than you.

-_-

Proposal

Of course, all these complaints without a suggestion is little more than long-winded whining. There's enough of that on this website, so here's something I think will work.

Demon Shade Camouflage only at 6+ >> Lesser Camouflage from level 1, upgraded at level 6 "Lesser Camouflage": Increased detection range and enemies are notified if you pass over one of their wards. The area revealed by the ward starts glowing red if Eve is there.

This should give Eve the necessary tools to be a champion that exists pre-6, while not being quite the oppressive shitlord she used to be.

Whiplash E no longer gives MS on hit (New) Passive - Dark Frenzy: Effecting an enemy champion with a spell or basic attack grants 15% increased movement speed for 1.5 seconds. Allure procs this both on application and when the charm is primed. Last Caress grants double the speed boost, triple if a champion was killed.

Yay, target access!

Last Caress (New) Cleanses slows on activation.

So Eve's dramatic exit stays as an exit.

44 Comments

Abibyama13 votes

Probably the worst ideas I’ve ever comes up with but here we go:

  1. Upon entering Demon Shade, Evelynn also gains movement speed out of combat.

  2. Empowered Whiplash range increased to 375-425 (about the same as ekko e blink)

  3. After casting Last Caress, Evelynn instantly gains Demon Shade

That will probably break Evelynn, Pls Stashu make Evelynn feels good to play ######hehe

Raven Redeemed3 votes

I like 1 and 2, but I think 3 would be too powerful. Imagine a Zed ult with more upfront damage, more escape range, and he becomes camo when he uses it. If you caught Eve out but she had ult, you would essentially just pray that she does not have more than one route to escape since you wouldn't be able to see which one she takes. Maybe decrease the shade cd by half or something.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes
  1. Could be.

  2. Thats a must actually. Im really suprised riot just buffed its dmg and not its range, Which is the problem.

  3. Thats a very good idea.

CithriaC1 votes

2 seems the best, as the emp. whiplash range is weak. 3, Raven redeemed already commented on, but 1 might be bad as getting out of combat is already semi easy if eve ults, or runs through a bush, which is tilting enough, but having her gain movement speed, means she won't be caught.

Though I wonder how fast she would be able to go with blue jungle item, support boots, and this. ######4, 3, 2, 1, Bye have a great time XD

R182 votes

I really agree with 1 and 2. She is way too fucking slow for a champion whose motto is "run around the map post 6 with invis and kill idiots who dont pink ward". Her e also just feels a bit clunky atm.

Tik1155 votes

My suggestions would be

Base Movespeed 340 or 345 Demon Shade: Gains Stealth at level 1, detection range is twice its current size but as she levels her detection range reduces to around Twitches detection range at level 18

Allure: Procing the full charged W refunds 50% of the cooldown OR When Proced she gains a 50% movespeed buff when running towards the marked target

Empowered whiplash: Range is doubled on targets with Allure on them

Last Caress: Gives Evelyn a 5% Per Champion hit Move speed buff for 3 seconds

This way her early game stealth isn't oppressive, her weak ganking can be cleaned up and she has a chance to escape with her actual escape.

For the most part I find Eve find its just...that early game man....

Spank the Fox4 votes

I replied to you in another thread, but I'd rather have two different changes (beyond the fact I personally loathe her new ult)

  1. Make Allure re-activatable for her Charm. You don't even need to change the cook time, but if Eve is within 600-800 units of a marked target, she can re-cast it to Charm her victim.

The Charm does no damage (to champions), has a great warning, and the moment even a creep shows up, she has no chance of procing it outside of melee range. She needs a more reliable way to proc it seeing how much counterplay it has for 1-2 seconds of CC. Bloody Lulu can incapicitate champions for longer with a mouse click.

  1. Camo remains at level 6. Camoflague needs to stay consistent with any others in the game, none of this ward pinging stuff. It makes camoflague redundant in that case.

Instead, just make the detection radius shrink by 25 units per level from 6. Her camo reveal isn't actually THAT much longer than pre-rework, but at level 18, this would be 300 units shorter (guessing her camo is around 700-800 right now)

BabygirlsDaddy2 votes

I like the idea for reactivating her charm, but I think to make it fair you shouldn't be able to activate it unless you get closer to the target (which I believe is only fair since you can initiate it from almost the very edge of the screen). I also agree that her abilities are rather.....lackluster.

To me her Q doesn't do much dmg unless you hit the entire combo off, and I find it very difficult to aim at your main intended target.

Her charm has all drawbacks previously listed, but my main concern is that it feels like it hardly does anything other than make you walk back for a brief moment.

Her E I find to be very useless since it is basically an empowered autoattack, and has about the same range, I believe it would be more effective if it had a longer range and pulled you to the enemy you're hitting, that to me would be much more effective for her combo, and would even make her charm more reliable in and of itself.

I'll admit her passive is interesting, but I agree that her pre-6 camo ability makes her almost useless until then, however I do like that it helps her sustain between fights and clearing. But I believe it would help if it gave you a little MS boost to help you close in for ganks/kills, and last for a few seconds after being sighted or combat is entered.

I personally do not like her ult at all, to me it feels like a Garen ult, but it usually leaves the other champions barely alive and now I'm even further away from them, and I had to waste my entire kit just to get close enough to......not kill them anyway. She feels very squishy, has great burst dmg when you honestly aren't expecting it, but has to rely on almost pure ambush tactics........Which it doesn't feel like many jg's know how to do (especially when you aren't used to the role and/are filling......all of which I'll admit applies to myself). [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Arkilusal4 votes

Personally, And maybe this is a dumb thought but I've a few thoughts regarding the difficulties surrounding new Eve.

  1. SUSTAIN. New Eve might be as squishy as ever, but weird as it sounds she kind of WANTS to scrap with people-like Garen, she can bounce back when her HP gets low. if her opponent can't...Well, you see the fork you're supposed to be using. Either they have to flee, or they risk dying. Plus, attrition-style combat means you don't have to 100-0 people, and can save yer ult for surprises.
  2. SPLITPUSH. New Eve...does terribly in teamfights. Even if she does all she wants to do, her best thing is using Ult to clean up if the enemy team is escaping or something. But even if she can't teamfight she actually isn't the worst choice for splitting I think. Passive means simply damaging her won't necessarily force a back, and the stealth makes getting away easy if you have prior warning like knowing the enemy is elsewhere. Granted, she's AP, but Eve's Q does enable a degree of waveclear, and AP does work for hitting turrets.

I think that's the missing piece, so to speak, with Eve. She's more macro-oriented then other Assassins, she might not be able to 100-0 a dude easily, but she can exert quite a bit of pressure on a team's towers/inhibs if she's allowed to.

Thunderneedle1 votes

If you cannot 100-0 a squishy you are not an assassin.

Thunderneedle3 votes

Eve is so slow T-T

I miss my mach 7 killer queen

Playful Sadist4 votes

Im with you there. I loved dark frenzy but with this rework they nerfed her killing time and movement speed overall so she feels soo clunky to play now...

I want old eve back.[sg-soraka]

zaire903 votes

Another ap assassin that feels worse than her rework because of "counterplay"

JoeMG2 votes

Very good points. I've suggested in other threads that she needs some buffs along the lines of increased MS and increased E range, even if it's just towards marked targets. A decreased stealth radius would help too.

I like the strategic approach she needs for her ganks, but getting to her target is too unreliable.

Votable Jester2 votes

What if for her pre-6 passive, she had a permanent red shimmer (like there is on stealthed targets with item 3364 hitting them). This would allow her to bypass wards if nobody is directly looking there, but she can't just walk up behind you.

Oleandervine2 votes

Some problems with your problems.

Evelynn is meant to have a pretty severe weakness - a lack of outright mobility. She is the only permanently stealthed champion in the game. She can either hunt down and sneak up on targets for kills, or she can dash up on them. One or the other, not both. She'd be insanely busted if she still had access to incredible speed bursts with her current kit, as that would eliminate her weaknesses. If you're upset with losing Dark Frenzy, run her with Ghost.

It also sounds like you're playing Eve completely wrong. Eve is not a balls deep, in your face champ. She doesn't come from the front and just blast someone away. She comes up from unexpected angles and freaks people out, using the chaos of suddenly finding her on top of you to land a kill. Her entire kit revolves around this playstyle. If you don't like it, play someone else. Play Rengar if you want the in-your-face assassin who hunts people down. But don't play Eve if that's what you're looking for, because that isn't how she plays.

Thunderneedle2 votes

I ran her with dark frenzy AND ghost...

She is so slow you have no idea how it feels when you descend from old Eve to this snail...

There's no chaos or surprise when you anounce your arrival 2.5 sec in advance. Hell the enemy doesn't even need to use their trinket. Eve is the only Jungler that warns you you are getting ganked. No need to even buy control wards now. She will save you the money...

She didn't need cc. She needed stealth speed and damage.

If you caught her she deserved to die, if you didn't she deserved to get the drop on someone.

Now she just dies.. you can't even kill and get out cuzz everybody as well as rammus turtled outruns you.

Somebody Love Me2 votes

I just want a lower camo radius. Why does she, who has no reliable gap closer, have a bigger camo radius than Twitch, who is ranged and doesn't have to wait till 6 to get camo.

Her Q is fine right now, and her W....2.5 seconds is too long late game.

E range is pathetic. Empowered E should have more range, like everyone says.

Only problem I have with her R is the high cooldown. I'd also be okay if they lowered the base damage on it, made it an actual execute, and spread the damage to the rest of her kit, just so it would be used more for the mobility.

Baka Red1 votes

{quoted}

I just want a lower camo radius. Why does she, who has no reliable gap closer, have a bigger camo radius than Twitch, who is ranged and doesn't have to wait till 6 to get camo.

Just little correction: Their camouflage radius is the same 700 units. It is the same for every camouflaged champion.

Edit: It appears that Wiki is wrong and that Eve's camouflage radius is actually larger than the camouflage radius of everyone else.

Somebody Love Me1 votes

Wrong. Eve's is 900. Hers isn't like the rest. Being under her demon shade passive, her camo is not only bigger than the others, but instead of shimmering, any damage removes her from stealth.

Baka Red2 votes

It appears that I stand corrected. Thank you for this enlightening experience; so this is how it feels to be wrong - I am one experience richer! ;)

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baka Red,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yBk5huEb,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-10-17T10:37:01.415+0000)

Just little correction: Their camouflage radius is the same 700 units. It is the same for every camouflaged champion.

This is false, Evelynn's camo range is 900.

Mecha Incognito2 votes

I think to help her get into position better, they could just make the charm mark require 2 seconds instead of 2.5, and give her a bit of movement speed towards the marked target.

Maybe just the movement speed towards the target would be enough.

warpenguin5552 votes

I always flash for the charm pre 6. Nobody is smart enough hunt me afterwards so I get to farm to 6 with no consequences.

It does suck that you almost have to flash to gank pre 6 though. I like the idea of giving empowered whiplash bonus range, even if it is only on allured targets.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

Personally I thought Widowmaker was a dumb name. It's so cliche and lame.

She didn't only kill husbands.

It's inaccruate.

R182 votes

I've played the new Evelynn quite a bit, and I really don't think she's as weak as people think. Her clear is SUPER healthy if you actually kite the camps with q and don't auto. It is also quite easy to land the last 3 hit of q if you get your charm off first, or if your lane has any kind of cc.

My only problems with the new Eve are her lack of out of combat mobility (you basically have to get mobis unconditionally now), and if you want to play her Ap (like how she's meant to be played) I find her super feast or famine, as trying to get your whole w>q>e>q>q>r will get you killed if behind.

Teridax682 votes

I'd like to see what would happen if Eve's camouflage were turned into full invisibility. She's balanced around heavily telegraphing her entrance with W anyway, and the vast majority of her damage is back-loaded, meaning it's very difficult for her to chunk someone too hard directly from stealth. Camouflage as a mechanic I feel is critically flawed, as it either does very little to actually give counterplay to a champion (i.e. Twitch) or invalidates their stealth to a large extent (e.g. Eve, with Rengar being a mix of both). Either way, the core gameplay of the reveal radius goes directly against the main purpose of stealth, which is to let champions land the first strike and do so undetected, and I feel designing champions' burst patterns around Camouflage has led to some pretty confused design in the past. Eve's new back-loaded damage pattern is good enough that I feel she doesn't need to be detected at close ranges, but Rengar and Twitch are still very much in one-shot-from-stealth territory whenever they get fed.

RocketRelm2 votes

Maybe it could upgrade to full invis at lvl 11, kind of how it upgrades to camo at 6 now

Teridax681 votes

That could indeed be a viable option, imo, particularly since Eve already falls off a cliff in the late game due to how easily she gets shut down while trying to assassinate priority targets. If possible, though, I'd like to see how she'd operate with full invisibility from level 1 onwards: I feel there's this huge fear that Eve's ganks would be oppressive if she had her stealth sooner, but at this point she's probably one of the fairest gankers out there, even with Camouflage, as everything she does is telegraphed over a very long duration. Moreover, she has plenty of balancing levers in case she does happen to be too bursty (she could be made more dependent on her charm, for example, or the delay on her Q recasts could be increased at early ranks), which is why I think that even if she did happen to be too good with full invisibility at level 1, or just Camouflage, she could still be tuned around it in a way that would still make her satisfying to play.

Rebonack2 votes

I still feel like the whole champion concept is flawed. 'Terrible early game' and 'Jungle Assassin' are wholly incompatible attributes. If they wanted Eve to be in the 'Slayer' branch of champs, they should have made her a Skirmisher. That class actually supports the 'weak early, strong late' play pattern quite well.

Linna Excel1 votes

They really should have made her a hybrid skirmisher. Maybe her next rework will make her one.

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yBk5huEb,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2017-10-19T19:57:01.123+0000)

They really should have made her a hybrid skirmisher. Maybe her next rework will make her one.

In total agreement there.

Less reliable target access and high damage spread out over time is a Skirmisher's MO. Assassins should have very high target access with a shorter burst pattern.

But in their crusade to add outplay potential to everything that isn't auto-attacks, Riot has absolutely wrecked the balance between champ archetypes.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

What I would want to see is a bigger base MS and a range increase on her E. Everything else is nicely done. The passive change,tho a bit lackluster early,is needed for the overall game health.

Akali Prime1 votes

id say gut the annoying bitch. make all her abilites do 0 damage because fuck that annoying ass champion.

R182 votes

I mean, isn't everyone you lose to OP in b4?

Akali Prime1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, isn't everyone you lose to OP in b4?

i didnt say she was op i said she was annoying learn the meaning of the two words, you must be a woman with all those assumptions your making

Wolvahulk1 votes

I dont know I find her quite viable if she snowballs, she doesnt even have to snowball as hard as Kha Zix but she does have such a weak early that if I dont get kills and get cheesed Im usless all game :/ its the problem with all assasins now but she is still viable unlick my old main cough Kha Zix cough

[sg-soraka]

invisiblecat11 votes

These changes are good, but this still doesn't cause the issues she has in teamfights Although most assassins don't usually have teamfight capabilities, they have something that can ensure they deal SOME DAMAGE and then can make it out Zed Can WEQ from a safe range Fizz Untargetable so he can RWQ in and then E away for free Kassadin His ult has a low cooldown and can safely jump, do damage, and jump out right after Katarina She is made for teamfights, so ignore her (but has a blink that leads to instant AoE damage) Khazix E gives resets Leblanc She can TP back to her W Shaco Has deception tools Yasuo Has windwall and multiple dashes Rengar CC removal after jumping in with ult Talon Can jump in with E or Q, and then has invis to get out safely All these champions have way to jump into a fight, but also a safe way out Evelynn suffers from the "let me walk up to you with 350 movespeed and a "hope I don't get CC'd" attitude Then when she realizes that she can't do anything to the enemy squishies she if forced to ult the full HP tanks and lives with dealing like 100 damage She needs someway to be capable of actually jumping into a fight, that isn't flash or wasting her ult for the blink portion These forces her to not even bother with teamfights, and just hope someone is stupid enough to walk into a lane alone and to pick up a kill It honestly sucks since she is already bad early game that being bad late game too just makes her a bad champion TL;DR: Evelynn lacks tools that can put her into a fight, and then being able to ult out

R181 votes

Yo, those are assassins. Eve's supposed to kill the backline such as Lux, Kog, Janna etc. Also, Eve uses W>Q to engage, or follows up in a fight.

invisiblecat12 votes

1.) Evelynn is an assassin too, so comparing them to her is valid 2.) Her charming an enemy doesn't really count as "engage", as she isn't really committed to fighting yet Ex: Ahri charming someone and then landing her Q is not technically engage 3.) W>Q is unreliable as "engage", and I am talking specifically about about follow up in a fight, as you are never going to being the first person to go in as an assassin

R181 votes

I miss wrote the assassin part. She's an assassin, but instead of having a reliable dash or blink to engage, she has invisibility, which I feel can be more impactful if used properly

invisiblecat11 votes

Although it is more impactful is used properly, it doesn't help evelynn if she is revealed when walking anywhere near and enemy champion For example, you are not in range of any of your abilities, which is balanced, but makes the stealth useless to engage

Azazel Aerternum1 votes

There's a massive difference between someone that knows how to play Eve, and someone who doesn't, and it shows. It's skill expression, in her current state she is exceptionally powerful, especially the later the game goes.

If they listen to you, they will overbuff her, and then panic nerf her to death.

FieryNox1 votes

So, I had to use up some of my rank to test her out, From D3 80 LP, to D5 0 LP. Champ is useless. Winrate on Op.GG is 48%.

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