Banshee's needs a buff. It's designed for a different game than what we're playing today.

Bârd · 2019-08-19T23:37:38.101Z

CDR used to be more scarce, so blocking a spell used to mean you couldn't get hit by it again for a while. Now, you see everybody but ADC's hitting 40% CDR whenever they feel like it, so blocking that Morg Q just means you get to wait a couple seconds. Damage used to be somewhat reasonable, so blocking a spell meant you didn't die in one rotation. Now, blocking one spell doesn't matter since they're overkilling you by several hundred HP anyhow. If your dodging was on point, you used to be able to save your shield for something that mattered. Now, even if you don't get hit, you can still lose Banshees because Ludens splashed on you. Not only is it a 40 second CD, it's 40 seconds of taking no damage, which is just a bit high.

Bârd·Aug 19, 2019·80 votes·18,003 views

CDR used to be more scarce, so blocking a spell used to mean you couldn't get hit by it again for a while. Now, you see everybody but ADC's hitting 40% CDR whenever they feel like it, so blocking that Morg Q just means you get to wait a couple seconds.
Damage used to be somewhat reasonable, so blocking a spell meant you didn't die in one rotation. Now, blocking one spell doesn't matter since they're overkilling you by several hundred HP anyhow.
If your dodging was on point, you used to be able to save your shield for something that mattered. Now, even if you don't get hit, you can still lose Banshees because Ludens splashed on you.
Not only is it a 40 second CD, it's 40 seconds of taking no damage, which is just a bit high.

65 Comments

AccurateYeetAug 19, 201963 votes

I mean it might be better if we went back to the game Banshee's Veil was designed around instead of changing it.

BârdAug 19, 201938 votes

Yes that would be better.

That's also never going to happen.

Fixing the game would require Riot to go back and fix every item, rune, and champion that has been powercrept or added since season 3.

Fixing Banshees requires Riot to buff Banshees.

LordGeovanniAug 20, 20191 votes

I mean old Old Banshees veil still let its cooldown go down while getting hit but it was a tank item i dont think its okay for mages to get a stronger version of the item while sitting in the already safest position of the team fight.

T2K BakaAug 20, 20191 votes

i mean it had no ap so mages would've lost damage. It was meant for tanks and honestly reverting it might help tanks do their job better.

ArtumisPrimeAug 20, 20191 votes

It was mostly built by ADCs before it had damage stats added to it.

At that point in time, tanks were essentially initiators, damage soaks, and CC providers.

By "damage soaks" I mean that they would block skill shots so their team wouldn't eat them. With the large number of abilities they were purposefully trying to block, Banshee's was a wasted item on them.

T2K BakaAug 20, 20191 votes

i mean it had a decent amount of hp and mr so it wasn't a waste, especially on tank supports like leona, letting her use her abilities as she engages. I'm just saying revert it to the previous one. Mages have enough items, they took my luden's kat away from meeeeeee.

ArtumisPrimeAug 21, 20191 votes

Ahhhh. You're talking about season 4/5 Banshee's. My bad. I was thinking when it had mana and less MR. I had actually forgotten that item got up to 70MR at one point.

To be completely honest though, reverting it would be pointless. CDR is so low, and there are so many random ass things that proc it (comet, Luden's, etc) that it wouldn't even matter without having absurd stats.

LordGeovanniAug 21, 20191 votes

Of course it was built by adcs they gutted both the stats and effect for tanks. tanks cant afford to sit out a fight for 40 seconds to wait for the shield that gets popped my random poke spells on 3 second cooldowns when they walk back up most tanks not having ranged dashes or long ranged CC to engage.

Rıots Bad ClientAug 20, 201917 votes

Buying a item 3102 to block Morgs Q. She pools under you and it pops your 3000G item. Gets snared

Buying a item 3102 She hits your adc. Procs arcane coment You get hit with comment and breaks your 3000g Item

Singed getting fed Youre the carry You're the target and dont want to be yEt'd Buying item 3102 He throws his Goo on you slowing you and procing your 3000g Item and then flash flips you.

You're an assassin looking to pick a target as Fizz The support uses item 3905 Its undodgeable, reveals you and procs your 3000g Item.

Yeh this item is really great. Its only countered by a few things... and few others like the hex items, and a bunch of tank items. And low Cd abilities... and stray aoe abilites... And ludens, just the most popular item in midlane.

But I mean like... if karthus ults you... You get to be like... not hit. IF... he wasnt targeting you.

Jinzo TorranceAug 20, 20197 votes

Morg W alone can't proc Banshee, same as Singed W.

BârdAug 20, 20196 votes

Unless she has Ludens.

Aery/Comet might break it too but I ain't sure.

Bob the ToastrAug 20, 20194 votes

I know comet does break it, I'm not sure about Aery

Rıots Bad ClientAug 20, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinzo Torrance,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y4isMG81,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-20T03:12:26.508+0000)

Morg W alone can't proc Banshee, same as Singed W.

HMm... might be mistaken then. Might have seen malzahars shield pop from this and thought it was item 3102 Or had arcane comet pop it. I know Arcane Comment does Pop it.

RyastarAug 20, 20193 votes

{quoted}

HMm... might be mistaken then. Might have seen malzahars shield pop from this and thought it was Or had arcane comet pop it. I know Arcane Comment does Pop it.

Wanna know extra fun thing? Buy banshee's on Malz and watch as the ability that pops your banshee's... also pops your passive

AhrisAug 20, 20192 votes

Its called counterplay

Rıots Bad ClientAug 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Its called counterplay

Yeh, no your right, but its being counter'd by everything. And therfore its a shit item. And no one is building it aside from Fizz and diana.

GonahtanuGepardiAug 20, 20191 votes

People are building it but as a counter to very specific champions instead of being mainstream (which could be seen as a good thing actually). As an example, it's very strong against zoe and malphite. It does take too long to recharge though. The least they could do is make it unaffected by ludens. That is a tilter. Didn't get hit by an ability? sorry but you gonna lose it anyway because either a minion or your braindead ally got hit instead.

Garen is adoptedAug 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Buying a to block Morgs Q. She pools under you and it pops your 3000G item. Gets snared

Buying a She hits your adc. Procs arcane coment You get hit with comment and breaks your 3000g Item

getting fed Youre the carry You're the target and dont want to be yEt'd Buying He throws his Goo on you slowing you and procing your 3000g Item and then flash flips you.

You're an assassin looking to pick a target as The support uses Its undodgeable, reveals you and procs your 3000g Item.

Yeh this item is really great. Its only countered by a few things... and few others like the hex items, and a bunch of tank items. And low Cd abilities... and stray aoe abilites... And ludens, just the most popular item in midlane.

But I mean like... if karthus ults you... You get to be like... not hit. IF... he wasnt targeting you.

what if karthus have luden?

Daddy AntsAug 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Buying a to block Morgs Q. She pools under you and it pops your 3000G item. Gets snared

Pool doesn't pop banshee's though.

Last time I checked at least.

Scorch, Comet or Aery probably popped it.

SwimmxAug 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Buying a to block Morgs Q. She pools under you and it pops your 3000G item. Gets snared

Buying a She hits your adc. Procs arcane coment You get hit with comment and breaks your 3000g Item

getting fed Youre the carry You're the target and dont want to be yEt'd Buying He throws his Goo on you slowing you and procing your 3000g Item and then flash flips you.

You're an assassin looking to pick a target as The support uses Its undodgeable, reveals you and procs your 3000g Item.

Yeh this item is really great. Its only countered by a few things... and few others like the hex items, and a bunch of tank items. And low Cd abilities... and stray aoe abilites... And ludens, just the most popular item in midlane.

But I mean like... if karthus ults you... You get to be like... not hit. IF... he wasnt targeting you.

Wrong. Singed does not proc Shield with Adhesive. In fact Singed has to waste his flip to proc it. Its a a huge counter to Singed.

macspamAug 20, 20195 votes

Yeah it feels pretty bad. they should just make a MR equivalent for Zhonyas which is more useful against a fizz anyway

Pendergast891Aug 20, 20192 votes

give item 3140 an ap version, maybe with the same active as zhonya's idk, and give it and item 3139 a lot more things it used to cleanse ( Zed and Fizz ults for example) and much new things

If riot is adamant on not removing a BUNCH of things, which would be healthier for the game, they should instead add more stuff to give people options

ArtumisPrimeAug 20, 20195 votes

An AP version of a hybrid defensive item with Zhonya's active is Zhonya's.....

Z3SIeeperAug 20, 20191 votes

Not an AP version, an MR version.

Think Zhonya but MR instead of Armor, that's what they're talking about.

GonahtanuGepardiAug 20, 20191 votes

I think he meant a shared active. So if you would use the qss type item, the zhonya would go on cd as well. You know, like item 3030 item 3146 item 3152 .

JuiceBoxPAug 20, 201910 votes

imagine these guys Katarina Fizz Leblanc Diana Akali Sylas having qss and zhonyas in their build path. You'd be crying. You would literally be crying.

DeusVultAug 20, 20193 votes

How to make Banshees viable with minimal changes:

take the current passive, and replace it with the Unique Nights Veil passive, which is the unique passive on item 3814 Now you can create your spell shield when you are looking for a decisive fight instead of having it popped by one ez Q, it has a 40 second CD, which current banshees has, but it comes back in 40 seconds after activation regardless of what happens, while taking damage during banshees down time resets the counter

So for those who dont know, here is item 3102 current passive

UNIQUE: Grants a Spell Shield spell shield that blocks the next enemy ability. This shield refreshes after no damage is taken from enemy champions for 40 seconds

and here is item 3814 unique passive that Banshees should have

UNIQUE – NIGHT'S VEIL: Channels for 1 second to gain a Spell Shield spell shield that blocks the next enemy ability within the next 7 seconds (40 second cooldown). Damage will interrupt the channel. You can move while channeling. If the channel is interrupted, the item is put on a reduced 5 second cooldown.

Kegan ArtoAug 20, 20192 votes

Yeah i think that the only champion that Banshee's currently has an impact on is Brand, if u block his E you don't get his passive on you so he cant stun you with his Q, so u can basically go in on him every time it's up and there isn't a damn thing Brand can do about it, but Banshee's is pretty much worthless against everyone else

GonahtanuGepardiAug 20, 20191 votes

Malphite is pretty sad if the enemy mage has it.

DurzakaAug 21, 20191 votes

Zac gets really sad when the enemy team has it.

Being immune to the E engage is a killer for him.

Kegan ArtoAug 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Zac gets really sad when the enemy team has it.

Being immune to the E engage is a killer for him.

Yeah that's true but it doesn't make zac completely helpless like it does for Brand, if Brand can't get his stun off he's pretty much dead.

Z3SIeeperAug 20, 20192 votes

It’s basically been relegated to being a niche AP Assassin item (aka Fizz/LB).

It does that job well imo. By nature that’s just what it is. It blocks one attack, which is perfect for someone that’s not sticking around long.

ImTheJuggernautyAug 20, 20192 votes

That's the problem they are stating though, it really doesn't do that job well. It's so easy for a fizz, or akali, or sylais, or kat, etc, to pop the shield and stick around, or re-enter the fight. Akali has so much damage, survivability, mobility, and target access when played right that she literally can kill a lot of champs several times over, even if those players are good. So no, banshees really doesn't fill that niche well, and that's why it's almost never built. If it did fill that niche well, it's be built all the time because champs like fizz, akali, and sylais have been so popular over the last year or two

Z3SIeeperAug 20, 20191 votes

Nature of the game currently is a damage fiesta. AP Assassins and everyone else are building full damage other than Zhonya cuz it's not even defense, it's pure damage negation for far more than 1 spell.

Sightless66Aug 20, 20192 votes

You say that like Banshee's has always had this cool down. Back in season 4, it had a cooldown of 25 seconds. It was nerfed to 40 seconds, and was generally mediocre afterwards until it was made an AP item. The game has never done the 40 second cooldown well, even back when it was added.

Starcraft243verAug 21, 20192 votes

Aoe Effects as luden, comet etc should not proc banshee

Daddy AntsAug 21, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Aoe Effects as luden, comet etc should not proc banshee

They should not proc Edge of Night, Sivir E or Nocturne W either then.

Starcraft243verAug 22, 20191 votes

exactly

RαyAug 20, 20191 votes

You mean this game needs a nerf.

BârdAug 20, 20191 votes

It's easier to buff Banshees than it is to nerf the entire game.

RαyAug 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's easier to buff Banshees than it is to nerf the entire game.

Nerfing every damage rune a bit shouldn't be that much of an issue.

ProExpertKingAug 20, 20191 votes

Don't forget that dragon can also proc it

ThisName1sDumbAug 21, 20191 votes

While the passive is pretty lackluster, the stat combo is pretty good. But yeah, not a super gold efficient item because of the passive.

NaturesMayhemAug 21, 20191 votes

I say give it a defensive passive such as granting a temporary shield after exceeding a certain amount of damage taken or make it so that you get some health from it. I think the shield block is either going to be too strong or too weak in this meta.

The KombinatorAug 21, 20191 votes

I would change it, that instead of blocking the next spell it would be usable. If you use it, then it gives/removes spell shield. If it blocks a spell, then it goes on CD. The point is that you could chose to have it deactivated, and activate when you need most, or have it on for precaution. Another change would be giving a monumental spellshield (like 10000) for the next 1 second when it blocks a spell. That way you could block out an entire rotation instead of a single spell. Rewarding you for using it on demand when you need most. Instead of just keeping on.

Kiwi LemonadeAug 21, 20191 votes

Kind of a double-edge sword item here, Banshees is amazing (if it was good) to stop an assassin's combo, but it doesn't and breaks on most all damage - and all it currently does is buff assassins, who already counter mages well, by blocking a would-be stun and enabling them to walk right into your face- and they have enough mobility to not get hit by Ludens at least.

I wish there was a separate Mage defensive item that worked similiar to Sterak's gage and blocked frontloaded damage. Until then I still with Ahri and Lissandra's kits that are the only thing that let me survive League of Assassins (arguably Ahri is one too)

Daddy AntsAug 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kiwi Lemonade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y4isMG81,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-08-21T10:13:53.591+0000)

Kind of a double-edge sword item here, Banshees is amazing (if it was good) to stop an assassin's combo, but it doesn't and breaks on most all damage - and all it currently does is buff assassins, who already counter mages well, by blocking a would-be stun and enabling them to walk right into your face- and they have enough mobility to not get hit by Ludens at least.

I wish there was a separate Mage defensive item that worked similiar to Sterak's gage and blocked frontloaded damage. Until then I still with Ahri and Lissandra's kits that are the only thing that let me survive League of Assassins (arguably Ahri is one too)

https://i.gyazo.com/df4e1a69c70da23b6ea4a67bfd7232e1.png

ModCaliCoastReplayAug 21, 20191 votes

I used to build it a lot when it was a neutral defensive item that all classes could build.

Making it an AP item was a really bad idea.

I think it would still be useful if it was reverted to a pure defensive item.

The old version was a really good item on a lot of melee pullers - the new one just feels...I mean, like you said, not relevant anymore.

DurzakaAug 21, 20191 votes

Or better yet, lets make it a tank item again so tanks can have a half decent generic MR item instead of a handful of niche MR items.

ÇhåryzårdAug 21, 20191 votes

When it procs it shouldn't just block 1 thing, have it block the first ability and then reduce the effects of CC or damage for the next few seconds so it can't be wasted so easily.

I can just Morg pool you, or hit it with the Luden's proc, or point and click you, and the item is useless for 40 seconds assuming I don't just do it again. The item is almost not worth buying at all except for a few circumstances.