Fixing Ahri for competive play

adjoth··2 votes·581 views

For anyone who plays a lot of Ahri you quickly learn how relent you are on her 'Q' (Orb of Deception) it's her poke, it's her primary source of damage. And playing her so much you can quickly realize that during laning being able to dodge just the return damage is more than enough to change the game. So unless your at max range it can be difficult to get both procks of damage when a sidestep can cut that damage in half, granted you do have some control on the return path to assist with that but think about it, I already hit you, with the first case, why do i have to dance to get the more important return damage, why do i have to hit you twice when you already 'outplayed' you (not quite right but close enough). There's more, kit wise unless your not in lane you have to get close to your target in order to burst... like really close. Her 'w' (Fox-Fire) targeting has always been crappy (point blank usage but targeting minions over champion) but on top of that the range is about her basic range (a little more i think), that means only the front most Fox-Fire will go at the enemy, the remain need to spin the distance to enter in range (which during laning is more likely they just target minions). And team fights is the worst since you're likely only going to be able to 'pick' targets with your 'Q' unless they get out of position or you can somehow flank (which is dangerous to try and do during a fight). Next ability, which is a vital part of her kit is of course, her 'E' (Charm). This allows her to win trades so long as a clear window is available, just fine ability during lanning, but against team fights, that reliability is destroyed. Again you can try and flank, but again it's dangerous and more likely just gonna end with you singling yourself out, and or getting stuck in the middle of the enemy team because you need you 'R' (Spirit Rush) to quickly re-position. As for her Ult, its what give her a lot of the kill potential, not so much for the damage, but the utility it provides. Gap closing, dodging, retreating, engaging, it's very versatile ability, but the most important use I find is using it to re-position to get that second half of her 'Q'. Now I mentioned how important landing the entirety of the the ability (for her 'Q') but it can be quite easy to dodge the second part of damage, nullifying a lot of her damage. Second, a QSS can make it so even if you get the 'E' + 'Q' combo down then can still dodge it not only that during laning phase the duration is to small to hold them there for the 'Q' return path (thou this depends on distance to target and how quick you are with the simple combo), if they a really motivated they can flash out too.

Summary: Your damge on the 'Q' is Ahri's primary and most reliable source of damage (due to things mention above), but it's pretty easy to deal with. Playing against her countless times (and as her) I've seen this fact abused by simple dodging the return damage. And with a QSS later in the game in can prevent assassination, that's important that damge is. And to already landing the initial damage, then needed to get the return as well, you already did good by landing it in the first place, why ruin it like that.

Conclusion: The best solution I can think of is: A) Return the bonus damge on her 'E' (Charm), sort of an indirect buff. But to be fair if this was done it would be like a max rank gain an extra ability so her lanning isn't too strong. B) Speed up the return animation of her 'Q' (Orb of Deception). Which can cause some problems against mobility champions but I think would be negotiable. That said making the Ult 'R' (Spirit Rush) more spam able would help, or to an extreme give her an extra change. Because as a mobility champion, she's lacking. This extra change will help her transverse terrain without to much lose of only have 1 or 2 left because of it. C) Switch around the damge on the 'Q' so it does true damge first, then normal AP damage D) Address team fights instead and tweak her abilities scaling. I'd be intresting if they made it so three Fox-Fires would spawn for each enemy champion within range (else just 3), but as a long time Ahri player I'd hate to see this. Purely because it just doesn't look good, thou the damge would be appreciated

What I'd Like to See: Personally I'd like to see her 'E' get a buff. This would help a lot against against the number one way to counter Ahir, build a little HP. Honestly just a little HP can go a long way, combine that with a little hard CC or just a QSS and you turn on her really easily, and I feel that this would be the most affect way of dealing with it so building a single item doesn't destroy her pick play style. All this said there is a build that can help, but you still need to be ahead in order to assassinate (assuming the have a QSS for your charm or is just somehow able to dodge the return strike of her 'Q' they could still potentially live even with that)

FYI: I am indeed an Ahri main, so I probably have some bias towards her, that said I believe what I said is in fact true and should be at least considered. That said since more are playing her she's likely to get some nerfs.... thanks Riot. Pls fix the bugs at least before you do.

15 Comments

Prozzak3 votes

Ahri is perfectly fine as is. No buff needed.

adjoth1 votes

Got to say i mostly agree, she's a good pick. And has excellent outplay potential. The only issue I have is glass cannon she needs to be in order to assassinate but leaves you at great risk when an enemy adc can basic you twice and pop you in less than a second. ADC should be on par with an assassin as far as burst. And whats worst is true assassin need one complete items in order to burst while Ahri needs 2-3 (2.5) items to even have to potential, which is maybe why she isn't considered an assassin anymore under Riots standards. And the main issue I have isn't just that even there are better champions with more burst (Sydra, Lux, most ADCS with a lethality build) but the fact it is a lot harder to make picks in close quarters team fights as well. Largely do the the targeting of the 'W', which would imply that 1v1s are the best play style for her. And to get kill, ironically CQC which is fair considering the risk reward factor, unless of course you fail to kill your target in which case RIP. That said this also exist which just make me go WTF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIPCYhJqzyM so its like maybe she's fine, but then this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DplkA0fXkis

chipndip12 votes

She's kinda fine atm.

If they wanted to make her better in competitive, they could buff her reward for landing E and nerf her Q speed boost at early levels, but outside of that I think she's alright.

adjoth1 votes

I tried to leave a poll here but is bugged so I'll ask it here (and your poor positioning doesn't make someone stronger, I'm talking to you Ezreal that's way ahead of his team, and thanks for the win <3) [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

How do you think the current Ahri is (3/28/17)?

  1. Just OK
  2. Strong
  3. Weak
  4. She's a safe pick
  5. I don't know
Kukan Seishin1 votes

I think she is just good

Not Overpowered

Not Underpowered

Safe reliable pick

But not too safe, not without repercussions, if Ahri's blows her ult to escape an gank (she can't kill her lane opponent unless they are braindead)

adjoth2 votes

<3 the brain dead remark, lvl one kills are my life <3. Like really, all im doing is AAing you to death. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Otherworldz1 votes

Ahri should be nerfed if anything.

She is incredibly strong mid now that Syndra, Leblanc, Talon, and Katarina were nerfed or are being nerfed in 7.7. Basically any champs that countered her early-mid game have now been nerfed, while Ahri remains untouched.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Syndra was not nerfed (for good syndra players) and will not be getting nerfed btw. Katerina was not nerfed and is not going to get nerfed (cd of ult was reverted on pbe so far) Talon was nto nerfed and is not getting nerfed (nothing about him on pbe so far unless it was updated without my knowledge) Lb was nerfed.... (:D)

Otherworldz1 votes

I'm on PBE

Talon is having his early Q damage nerfed on all 4 ranks, and Katarina is having her shunpo cooldown increased. Syndra had her early game nerfed patch 7.1, and LeBlanc has been completely gutted.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

I looked them over As I also Am on PBE IGN ThunderKitsune

Interesting tho, Talon Q Damage decreased to 60/85/110/135/160 from 80/100/120/140/160 And Kat E Cooldown increased to 14/12.5/11/9.5/8 from 10/9.5/9/8.5/8. All early game nerfs.... Guess what

(Ahri's early game is really bad as long as you aren't a potato and know how to respect someone who just hit level 6)

Edit: Syndra TRANSCENDENT BONUS Grabs up to 3 spheres ⇒ Deals 20% bonus true damage DAMAGE 80/120/160/200/240 ⇒ 70/110/150/190/230 RATIO 0.8 ability power ⇒ 0.7 ability power This is a buff if you are good with syndra A nerf if you are bad

adjoth2 votes

Most of her power spike comes mid game, and if she gets behind it's a bitch to play with/as.

adjoth2 votes

Sounds like Syndra is more or less untouch, a little weaker early game won't stop her from picking up kills. Low mana cost one her 'Q' can attest to that. Plus the strong carry potential late game, right now personal I think she's the strongest Mid lanner and easiest to play.

adjoth2 votes

Syndra is laughable strong right now, strong scaling true damage that slows and a point click delete with her ultimate plus strong team fighting, lanning, and hard CC that can freeze up most (if not all) of the enemy team if you use it right. Just 'W' + 'R' to delete a soft target then follow it up with an 'E' and you've stunned the rest of the team.

Cuddly Wolfy1 votes

Lol im waiting for that one person who has been making threads saying that because Ahri has a 20% pick rate and 54% win rate to show up and say she needs nerfs but provide no logic behind their reasoning besides the pick and win rates.

Personally Ahri seems pretty fine atm. The return rate of her Q although its harder to hit, also means she has more move speed for that duration, giving her a bit of well needed safety with how close she needs to get to use her Q and even have a chance of hitting the first. Her burst is low unless she is way ahead but she is more of an opportunistic assassin than most of the others anyways. She cant force a fight and unless she hits her charm she will likely miss the return, and possibly the first hit of the Q as well.... So she does best with poking and waiting due to her lack of burst.

Her W is the only thing that seems very...... Lackluster. Its very meh in looks, what it does, how much it does, and its cooldown time. Your right, it is about the range of her auto attack range, so more often than not it will just hit minions anyways so its next to useless in an actual team fight because it will only hit the tanks for minimal damage, or in mid lane where as said, it would hit minions. It needs something done with it that makes it feel meaningful to EVER upgrade that second.... Perhaps slightly increase its range but reduce its damage and give it something like a .5 second slow for each one that hits? Perhaps reduce its range slightly, keep the damage the same, and it can only hit champions and it gives a small damage burn effect since its "Spirit Fire"? Im not sure.

EDIT:

Her biggest strength comes from her Passive due to being able to sustain, where most other assassins have to either engage and poke or they WILL be outshined and be unable to win the lane, Ahri heals and wave clears and potentially pokes all in one. That is why she has such high win rate atm is because she is an opportunistic assassin that is actually able to play passive and thrive, as well as being able to poke them down and wait until they are low enough to burst.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Lol im waiting for that one person who has been making threads saying that because Ahri has a 20% pick rate and 54% win rate to show up and say she needs nerfs but provide no logic behind their reasoning besides the pick and win rates.

Same Sadly

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