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Underpriced and Overpowered

CPU Lyrica··1 votes·715 views

MasterYi Im here to voice my opinion on Certain 450-IP priced champions. such as Yi, Ashe, and Garen. Though my focus will primarilly be Yi. They are all simple , 450-ip champions, easy to get, easy to play. too easy. there has been a surge of people using yi, and i find this to no extent extremely annoying. as a person who appreciates challenge, im here witnessing dozens of 'Yi mains' bragging on about their MR 7 tokens, when in reality, Yi is probably the easiest Champion to play. Essentially the equivalent of Hanzo in league form. (Overwatch joke). anyway, my point is that Yi is Too Powerful, for the price and skill cap. it takes no skill to Press E, and R, then tap W and click an enemy, watching as your Teleport-IFrame does all your work for you. I simply request that someone deals with this. making Yi less of a No-skill-required champion will make seeing bullshit plays with him alot less common. Or atleast, at very minimum, bump up his IP price, to lower the amount of people having him. like, seriously. having that much power at that low a price is just.. idk how to even describe it.

36 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

IP cost has absolutely nothing to do with a champion's power.

CPU Lyrica1 votes

Perhaps not. im just saying that Yi is simply too powerful for the simplicity of his kit.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CPU Lyrica,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:04:40.935+0000)

Perhaps not. im just saying that Yi is simply too powerful for the simplicity of his kit.

That must be the reason why almost no one plays him above Gold.

Because he's quite garbage and only good for reking noobs.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

Yeah, but have you ever tried rooting or stunning Yi? It guts his effectiveness against you.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:23:02.844+0000)

Yeah, but have you ever tried rooting or stunning Yi? It guts his effectiveness against you.

Because every team has one of these: Annie Ryze Veigar SwainZyra Amumu BrandLeona TwistedFateSyndra Taric . No, sadly they don't.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

If you've trouble with Yi, then you should consider someone with stuns. If you're easily foiled by Yi's patterns, you might want someone who can do well against him, you know? And once you can shut down Yi reliably, he falters really badly, especially in teamfights.

Kritty1 votes

{quoted}

IP cost has absolutely nothing to do with a champion's power.

While it has nothing to do with their power, it does have something to do with their ease of play. Yi, Ashe, and Garen are targeted at newer players, and give them a cheap champion that can fill a role (Garen in top, Ashe as ADC, and Yi as Jungler). A lot of his power is augmented by the items that Riot keeps changing to focus on ADCs, though, and he uses them relatively well. Buff AS on BotRK? Yi loves it even more. Give AD on GA? Yi will have that core now.

As a result, he's power creeping up the board, and Riot hasn't shown any intention to curb that creep yet.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

While it has nothing to do with their power, it does have something to do with their ease of play. Yi, Ashe, and Garen are targeted at newer players, and give them a cheap champion that can fill a role (Garen in top, Ashe as ADC, and Yi as Jungler). A lot of his power is augmented by the items that Riot keeps changing to focus on ADCs, though, and he uses them relatively well. Buff AS on BotRK? Yi loves it even more. Give AD on GA? Yi will have that core now.

As a result, he's power creeping up the board, and Riot hasn't shown any intention to curb that creep yet.

maybe because yi is an adc...

Sir Fuzzi3 votes

"Strong champions shouldn't be cheap."

Whoa there, Trump; your imperialism is showing.

Prospector Pete2 votes

Last time I checked low-priced champions are usually easier to play, so new players can get used to the game faster. Also some of it has to do with their release date.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:04:23.939+0000)

Last time I checked low-priced champions are usually easier to play, so new players can get used to the game faster. Also some of it has to do with their release date.

Not true, ever played Ryze ?

Otherworldz1 votes

Sorry what is so hard about Ryze?

He is all point and click...

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry what is so hard about Ryze?

He is all point and click...

You have to:

a.) Decide what combo to use in a team fight, within 2 seconds b.) Position perfectly, I've had Q's hit minions instead of champions or the wrong minions c.) Know when to use your ult and when not to, it's a make it or break it scenario

CS'ing with ryze is also quite demanding.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Sorry what is so hard about Ryze?

He is all point and click...

Fiddlesticks

Point and click doesn't always mean easy.

CPU Lyrica1 votes

Yes, i understand that cheap champions are the training wheels of league. im just frustrated some simpleton can claim he's good when he's playing a champion soo easy.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=CPU Lyrica,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:06:44.203+0000)

Yes, i understand that cheap champions are the training wheels of league. im just frustrated some simpleton can claim he's good when he's playing a champion soo easy.

You can make the argument that easier champs generally allow for easier farming, kills, and generally better kits. Complex champions require you to "outplay" them, something Fakers likes to do.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

You can make the argument that easier champs generally allow for easier farming, kills, and generally better kits. Complex champions require you to "outplay" them, something Fakers likes to do.

The difference is that:

  • Easier champs require less practice to get it working, but their skill ceiling is lower due to the simpler kit design.
  • Complex champs require more practice to get it working, but their skill ceiling is higher hence they are played by forcing other players to react to them instead of the other way around, because they generally have a button for every situation.

In games, it's generally balanced that easier champs would have higher stats to counteract complex champs' extra kit dynamics. Complex champs have more buttons to push and thus harder to kill, but easier champs could kill them if they do actually get to them, is the gist of the balance. But this is not the case in LoL, because people for whatever reasons, despise when easier champs have actually a competitive edge, and so they share roughly the same amount of raw power as the complex champs.

And what happens is that, shocker, complex champs dominate the higher elo range because they have both the larger kit and samey and sometimes more amount of raw power; playing easier champs in high elo range is thus nothing than self-imposed handicap, this is even truer on champs designed to be entirely 1 dimensional such as Yi. Easier champs are thus more used in lower elo range where people have trouble utilising the power of the complex kits.

So no, complex champs are actually just straight up better in League, which is wrong, but that's what many want.

Automated Riven2 votes

I am super confused about how Yi is overpowered.... he is only strong in low elo and against certain teamcomps that cant cc him..

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:19:13.989+0000)

I am super confused about how Yi is overpowered.... he is only strong in low elo and against certain teamcomps that cant cc him..

He's talking about late game Yi most likely, that goes, q, q, q until he scores a pentakill. Oh, and not all teams have hard cc, slows for example, don't work on him because of his ultimate.

Automated Riven1 votes

oh... I was gonna spout some facts but dedided not to waste the intelect. -_-

I was aware of those teamcomps.. IE something like Nasus Evelynn Vladimir MissFortune Soraka This comp while having strong slows would have a terrible time against yi unless raka was good.

Hallbuster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:30:35.882+0000)

oh... I was gonna spout some facts but dedided not to waste the intelect. -_-

I was aware of those teamcomps.. IE something like Nasus Evelynn Vladimir MissFortune Soraka This comp while having strong slows would have a terrible time against yi unless raka was good.

Exactly, look at YI's ultimate: HIghlander!

ACTIVE: For 7 seconds, Master Yi gains bonus attack speed, multiplies his movement speed and becomes immune to all Slow icon slows. While active, champion takedowns extend the duration of Highlander by 7 seconds.

Those 7 seconds is enough to kill the entire team or at-least their carry!

Automated Riven1 votes

I am quite aware. Have you just not read a single thing I have posted? The first post I pointed out that yi does well against low cc comps who cannot lock him down. I specifically said Cannot cc him as in cannot slow him (even if they have slows) and cannot stun or root or cc him in any way.

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:19:13.989+0000) he is only strong in low elo and against certain teamcomps that cant cc him..

my second post to expound on that because It seems your unable to read I even highlighted A teamcomp that while it has low cc it isnt bad per se. but Yi can walk all over it because he is IMMUNE TO SLOWS I dont know why you insist on correcting me by saying what I was already saying.

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmHn4IQF,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-05-09T02:30:35.882+0000) IE something like Nasus Evelynn Vladimir MissFortune Soraka This comp while having strong slows would have a terrible time against yi unless raka was good.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly, look at YI's ultimate: HIghlander!

ACTIVE: For 7 seconds, Master Yi gains bonus attack speed, multiplies his movement speed and becomes immune to all Slow icon slows. While active, champion takedowns extend the duration of Highlander by 7 seconds.

Those 7 seconds is enough to kill the entire team or at-least their carry!

You can also use Fear effect on him, for example, which nullifies his entire existence and have him disengage from the teamfight almost entirely by having him run at the opposite direction at 300km/hr during his Highlander, precisely due to the fact he couldn't be slowed (fear also slows the target, but Highlander removes that). You don't have to always lock him down, there are many ways to get him out of the picture one way or the other, he's only immune to slows, that's all.

Not to mention, given he blows up under any kind of focus and melt or be nullified when there is any kind of CC that isn't slow, who then has an ulti that can only be used to run at people, I highly doubt there is an issue here.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

He's talking about late game Yi most likely, that goes, q, q, q until he scores a pentakill. Oh, and not all teams have hard cc, slows for example, don't work on him because of his ultimate.

Yi is a late-game champ, who is stuck with 15+ min of being useless and somehow still needs to snowball in that period for his late-game relevance. And once he does actually earn that, he is not allowed to be strong?

What do you want him to do then?

Also, if your team doesn't have hard CC, you kinda deserve the loss. This is true for all champs and team-comp, it's just a fact that if your team doesn't have at least 1 or 2 hard CC in the entire team, against ANY TEAM, just don't bet too much on winning.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Yi is a late-game champ, who is stuck with 15-20 min of being useless and somehow still needs to snowball in that period for his late-game relevance. And once he does actually earn that, he is not allowed to be strong?

What do you want him do then?

Also, if your team doesn't have hard CC, you deserve the loss. This is true for all champs and team-comp, it's just a fact that if your team doesn't have at least 1 or 2 hard CC in the entire team, against ANY TEAM, just don't bet too much on winning.

I don't have any control over picks. Someone can lock in Ashe, go mid, and there would be nothing I could do.

Sure, I could dodge matches over and over.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

I don't have any control over picks. Someone can lock in Ashe, go mid, and there would be nothing I could do.

Sure, I could dodge matches over and over.

This is stupid. God forbid Riot actually balances a team game around teams? If you solo, the accept you're playing it solo in an otherwise team game, and obviously a couple things would be at loss, but that's the same for both teams in a match.

Yi is hot garbage in any organised play, he's the Dan (Street Fighter) of League of Legends, who is only picked if you're high on trying to prove the inferiority of your opponent, he is that bad. He is only actually strong against noobs, relatively so if you're so good and your opponent appears like a noob that'd work too, though the latter rarely happen realistically. And he is already balanced in a state that is weaker than he should be, there is virtually no reason to nerf him even further just because your teammates are not the best players in the world when you solo, it makes absolutely no sense, I mean does that mean to have to nerf EVERY champion(?). If you have to have organised play, then form your own team!

EDIT: PS. It was actually a meta to send Ashe mid, not sure if you were making jokes on that one or just a coincidence.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

This is stupid. God forbid Riot actually balances a team game around teams? If you solo, the accept you're playing it solo in an otherwise team game, and obviously a couple things would be at loss, but that's the same for both teams in a match.

Yi is hot garbage in any organised play, he's the Dan (Street Fighter) of League of Legends, who is only picked if you're high on trying to prove the inferiority of your opponent, he is that bad. He is only actually strong against noobs, relatively so if you're so good and your opponent appears like a noob that'd work too, though the latter rarely happen realistically. And he is already balanced in a state that is weaker than he should be, there is virtually no reason to nerf him even further just because your teammates are not the best players in the world when you solo, it makes absolutely no sense, I mean does that mean to have to nerf EVERY champion(?). If you have to have organised play, then form your own team!

EDIT: PS. It was actually a meta to send Ashe mid, not sure if you were making jokes on that one or just a coincidence.

It's coincidentally something I saw Faker do, play every ADC champ in mid.

Hallbuster1 votes

There's 100 threads calling for yi to be nerfed, just wait for Riot to do something about it.

Magical Zoe5 votes

There's no reason to even nerf him.

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

There's no reason to even nerf him.

Great argument! There's nothing you need to add to make it sound convincing!

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

Great argument! There's nothing you need to add to make it sound convincing!

Because all signs points towards the notion that Yi is not overpowered, I mean, there is a reason why he pretty much never, ever, appears in high elo games. In fact, Riot KNOWS he isn't, but intentionally balances him in the state of being underpowered than he should've been, because they don't want the Board to be flooded with Yi OP threads just because he's actually balanced for once. This happened when Yi was just reworked, when they actually re-released Yi more or less balanced, but then people cried 2 rivers so Riot has been keeping him down there ever since, and what's more, people still cry about him now. FFS.

Massive QQ that actually mean something would be threads targeting ones such as Thresh or Lee, because it's literally been proved to death that the likes of them have fundamental issues, but then whenever Riot actually tries to tackle them, people will also QQ.

It's almost if people like certain champs OP while others UP, oh wait...

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

Because all signs points towards the notion that Yi is not overpowered, I mean, there is a reason why he pretty much never, ever, appears in high elo games. In fact, Riot KNOWS he isn't, but intentionally balances him in the state of being underpowered than he should've been, because they don't want the Board to be flooded with Yi OP threads just because he's actually balanced for once. This happened when Yi was just reworked, when they actually re-released Yi more or less balanced, but then people cried 2 rivers so Riot has been keeping him down there ever since, and what's more, people still cry about him now. FFS.

Massive QQ that actually mean something would be threads targeting ones such as Thresh or Lee, because it's literally been proved to death that the likes of them have fundamental issues, but then whenever Riot actually tries to tackle them, people will also QQ.

It's almost if people like certain champs OP while others UP, oh wait...

The problem is the only thing his kit offers is sustain and damage. He doesn't provide any utility to the team. Ryze's rework was a perfect example of balancing a champion that did too much damage.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is the only thing his kit offers is sustain and damage. He doesn't provide any utility to the team. Ryze's rework was a perfect example of balancing a champion that did too much damage.

I highly disagree.

His kit offers NEITHER sustain or damage, it's both POTENTIAL sustain and POTENTIAL damage. His kit is designed to be intentionally flimsy and iffy, so that he's useless early and POTENTIALLY a monster late game. What about having no utility, it's his niche, what's wrong with that? Do you like Clone Wars that much?

Are you actually praising Ryze's rework? Seriously? It's one of the shiitest design in Riot's history! There is a reason one there is potentially ANOTHER Ryze rework just around the corner. He embodies the issue where he's bad in pubs but very strong in pro games, and shoehorned-in utility that ultimately both destroyed his balance and his identity, that's not what we call a good design

Hallbuster1 votes

{quoted}

I highly disagree.

His kit offers NEITHER sustain or damage, it's both POTENTIAL sustain and POTENTIAL damage. His kit is designed to be intentionally flimsy and iffy, so that he's useless early and POTENTIALLY a monster late game. What about having no utility, it's his niche, what's wrong with that? Do you like Clone Wars that much?

Are you actually praising Ryze's rework? Seriously? It's one of the shiitest design in Riot's history! There is a reason one there is potentially ANOTHER Ryze rework just around the corner. He embodies the issue where he's bad in pubs but very strong in pro games, and shoehorned-in utility that ultimately both destroyed his balance and his identity, that's not what we call a good design

Champions without utility are, generally speaking, able to more damage. The problem players have with this is when they end up having items that give them “ad steroids:” damage that goes over the roof and makes armor useless.

Just look at Miss Fortune or Vayne in their current state.

As for Ryze, I can’t speak on experience since I didn’t play him before his rework. All I know is there were tons of QQ threads and the vast majority including Riot considered him to be op.

Magical Zoe1 votes

Come off your high horse. Yi is heavily countered any form of cc besides slows when he's in ult form. After he alpha strikes (since thats what every yi does, the initiate with alpha) you stun the fuck outta him. You either then can run, or fight him and hope for the best.

NovaDisk1 votes

Yeah, Garen's "strong".

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Garen/ (Diamond+)

http://champion.gg/champion/Garen/Top (Plat+)

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