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Please acknowledge Karma

Tapu Fini··5 votes·692 views

The radio silence on any and everything Karma related has become deafening.

Edit: No, I am not saying new Karma is better, nor am I saying she is worse. The old and the new are too different to compare, and there lies the problem.

Some players are unhappy with her rework. There are good and bad parts of both kits, but her identity was stripped from her. Every other significant champion update has been made with the express intent of keeping the feel of the original playstyle, yet Karma was absolutely butchered. To add insult to injury, three of her four splash arts still represent her old persona, despite lacking her trademark dual fans.

I know how excited I was when I heard Karma was getting a rework, she was my favorite champion, and I was glad she was finally going to get her time in the spotlight, but what we got isn't Karma any more. She retained nothing from her original kit, only Defiance serves to remind us of who she once was. No other reworked champion received this treatment, and it's awful that we aren't even being acknowledged.

It has been acknowledged that the lack of communication during her re-creation led to the general taste of bitterness left in the mouths of original Karma's fans. How is the continued lack of communication helping to fix it?

Please, work with us. Get together with the community and find a way to heal the scar you left us with.

I've also posted this in champion feedback on the original forums, but that's a rioter null-zone. Right here

19 Comments

The5lacker5 votes

"Most players" aren't throwing a tantrum, they're just enjoying her new and incredibly fun kit. Her old kit was terrible, and claiming she retained "nothing" is provably, factually wrong. Shield with an AoE burst when Mantra'd? Check. Mantra in general? Check. Incredible baiting potential? Check. Only now, Karma can actually do other things than just bait and pray. Harassment potential? Check. Actual choices with what she Mantra's? Check. The ability to function in more than just incredibly niche teamcomps? Check. An actually sensible and interesting design? Double-check.

Karma is in a great spot right now, and bitching about a rework CHANGING A CHAMPION is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Karma's only identity pre-rework was that nobody played her.

Hoi Im Temmo3 votes

"Bitching about a rework CHANGING A CHAMPION"

Wont lie, I though this was hilarious.

Regardless, I didn't play old Karma, so I can't judge here, but as an avid Sion player, there are some things I would throw a fit over if they are gone after his rework...

Tapu Fini4 votes

No reason to be rude. Her viability in the game is not in question, the fact that we were promised better, and instead received new, is what bothers me. Heimerdinger's rework is a prime example of what should have happened, he still feels and plays like Heimerdinger, just improved.

Mantra is not what is was. It was based on decision making and flexibility. If you had read the entire post instead of just skimming while blinded with misplaced anger, you'd see that Defiance was acknowledged as the only part of her kit that was comparable. Unfortunately its presence as a high-ratio shield/nuke has been stripped as well.

I'm not bitching, and certainly not throwing a tantrum. Please bring constructive criticism without the nasty attitude if you decide to post in this thread again, though looking through your other comments you don't really seem to offer much outside of an extremely negative presence.

The5lacker1 votes

Mantra didn't used to have any choice. What are you smoking? You Mantra'd Q and E. And you had charges for both. Where's the choice?

Or, right, in your delusional fantasy past where old Karma was anything other than a non-functional, confusing mess of a champion. That's where the choice is.

The Donger's rework maintained his core identity because he had a core identity. Karma didn't.

bzhen09153 votes

I'm not sure if "many" players were unhappy with the rework, (granted I didn't play old karma), I think it's just you being unhappy.

And you are severely underestimating the power of her new kit, both in a solo lane and as a support

She has amazing poke with her Q, a basic form of cc with her W, and a speed up/shield on her E. And mantra, which is available at level 1, makes it even more powerful.

The utility of her kit should not be underestimated, and many people still consider karma as a viable support.

Would you please explain to us why do you think the new karma "has left us with a scar"?

Tapu Fini1 votes

Power and viability are not in question. The issue at hand is that they created a new champion with Karma's rework. They failed to retain Karma's unique feel and what made her players love her. Her kit, especially spirit bond, did need improvements, that much I will never argue against. Too much power was placed in shield bombing, and not enough in other places. This was what we thought a rework was going to address, not just killing Karma and sticking a new champion in her space.

The new Karma didn't leave a scar, the removal of the old one did.

Hyrum Graff3 votes

+1, Your post is generally well thought out and constructive; I don't think you deserve the downvotes.

I wasn't around pre-rework, so I can't really speak to the content of your post, but I agree with you that I've seen a number of Karma rework discussions, but no Riot responses. I'd love to see even something as simple as, "Yeah, we messed up with the rework, but we think Karma's in a good place right now," or "We don't think we really messed up with the rework."

@Rito: This post is as constructive as you're going to get - if you want to jump in, here's the place to do it.

Sunfield3 votes

Downvotes are well deserved because its been a really long time since her rework, there where dozens of discussions on it with Riot participation and the topic was beaten up to death.

Back in the times there where maybe 100 regular karma players in total and yet some of them still claim that new karma is worse

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Downvotes are well deserved because its been a **really long time **since her rework, there where dozens of discussions on it with Riot participation and the topic was beaten up to death.

Ah, that would be why I haven't seen them, then.

For the record, I love new karma, and would hate to see her reworked. I was just pointing out that OP was pretty reasonable, so without the context of "beating a dead horse," it didn't seem like it merited downvotes.

Tapu Fini1 votes

I do not claim she's worse, I claim she's strikingly different, something we never wanted or asked for. In no other case has a champion be so strikingly altered, down to core gameplay. Say they took Sona, gutted her kit, and left just her Crescendo in a tweaked state, and the rest a new kit barely resembling what she was designed with; people would cry out at it. There were cries about Karma that have either never been seen, or never been acknowledged. Time does not change that the Karma of old had her place in the game that some people did love.

They blindsided us with the changes, and basically told us to deal with it when they finally revealed her kit. Heimerdinger is the best example of what should have happened- He is still heimerdinger. His kit got a makeover, but he still feels like himself. Karma was removed and replaced.

Sunfield1 votes

There are replies in this very thread explaining what and why Riot did. If you just choose to ignore them, then I feel no longer obliged to reexplain it to you

Tapu Fini1 votes

I would also greatly appreciate dozens of links to topics in which Riot discussed Karma. I'm looking through forum posts around the time her rework went live and past, and I have yet to find one riot response. Edit: There's one Just keep in mind the first half of the riot responses are completely off topic, and the rest just repeat- couldn't keep her, not worth trying to fix her inherent issues, better to just make a new champion with a similar skill and deal with the hate instead of trying to fix something.

I can of course link you to the many threads at the time against the rework from people that actually played her. The threads asking riot to stop and look at what the community wanted, and the threads riot turned a blind eye to, if you'd like.

Sunfield1 votes

You'd have to search through pbe forums as well

Anyway, with every rework there is a flood of threads complaining. People just dont like change. If Riot did not turn a blind eye to some of them, the game would stay the way it was back in 2010

But I gotta tell you, I am yet to see a rework that turned out worse than the old version in terms of playability and balance

Skernan2 votes

How was her identity stripped from her? The only spell that's really different is Q. Everything else was just slightly modified to make her less confusing to play.

I've been playing her since Season 2, and I much prefer new Karma. She has better poke thanks to Q, Jump rope is less of a mess, and her shield now has extra utility tied to it.

TheChilaso1 votes

I prefer her new kit as well but there are some numbers tweaks that I think needs to be addressed, like her ap scaling. She falls off late game and become a liability unless she is teamfighting and slowing w/her Q.

Seralise2 votes

Wow. Lavitz, I completely understand and feel the same way you do regarding Karma. I only found this post because I searched 'old Karma' in the forum since the thought of her old ways crossed my mind. I'm also surprised at a lot of the responses you've been getting from downvotes, 'bitching' accusations, even the idea that you're the only one that misses old Karma.

I played ... actually, I first started playing League of Legends with old Karma and bombed in games, repeatedly! I was horrible. Eventually I dabbled with other champs but always went back to Karma. Maybe it was her fans or the fact that she wore a dress into battle ... WTF! (Fans, check. Dress, check. Ready to murder, done!). Maybe it was this woman of color in a kimono. Anyway, once I leveled up and got some playing experience, my runes and mastery setup, I finally figured her out.

This is what I missed. The minute you selected old Karma in queue, you got the scarlet letter of trolling. Call for mid position, you were persecuted and cast as the black-sheep. No team member will help you out, you're on your own. You're vulnerable, weak of team assists and you're opponent mid can't wait to school you for choosing lame old Karma. Ahh yes, the perfect setup!

I schooled so many mids who thought they could best me. Loved assisting the top fighter who gave me a chance to see them dominate their position all because of my shield blast. More like a shield bomb from a far.

It was hard. She needed a team that understand how to play with her, so part of a game session would be teaching players how to take advantage of her (and you couldn't communicate this because you're a troll so you had to prove/demonstrate it).

She broke meta and a devoted niche loved that about her. She was weird, unknown and had a reputation. And yes, I miss all of that. As do many old Karma devotees. Lol cannot return to the old Karma. We get that. But I am happy to find others who appreciated her old ways and the weird alternative world that old Karma existed in Lol history.

The new Karma, is amazing and fun and totally makes sense with the direction LoL is headed in. But she is not the old Karma. The best link that I can make between the two is an evolution in personal character that shows in play. But, I will always miss and cherish my old Sakuri Karma.

Maybe they can do a throwback day of old champs sometime as a special encore of us veterans. Anyways, I up-voted this post Lavitz.

Karma out!

Tapu Fini1 votes

You have no idea how happy it makes me to see there are still those who played and loved the old Karma lingering around. My articulation of it could most likely use quite a bit of amendment, but it reached the right person.

As much as I want the old Karma back, I do realize that's never going to happen, but what I hope is that Riot can take this new Karma and mix in more elements of the old one; they took too much, and left it in the wrong places. She's viable and somewhat popular now, yes, but at the cost of so much.

Thank you for the support. I would love to see a Throwback day, I just don't think Riot would support it. I guess all we can do now is reminisce.

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