Boards›Gameplay

Can we talk about Cassiopeia now?

Tapu Fini·9/22/2014, 12:32:33 AM·29 votes·2,987 views

I feel the rework hype is dying off, and we're getting a decent glimpse at her real performance.

Is anyone honestly enjoying the new Cassiopeia? Building up her passive stacks is not fun. It's fun on Nasus and Veigar because it's icing on the cake. They're already relevant champions, and their stack system makes them feel even better. Cassiopeia NEEDS her passive to be stacked in order to be relevant to the game. This is not a fun mechanic, it's a pain in the ass, and a blatant gate on her power.

Her late game (THE defining point of a hypercarry,) fails to make up for the sad excuse for laning phase and mid game she has. Until she's at around 600 ap, her damage output can't even scratch what she was capable of previously, and on top of it she has to put herself in a significantly more dangerous position to get any of that damage out.

You made a farm-bot. She's not fun to play, and she's definitely not a hyper carry. Her issues with hyper-mobile champions are even worse now that her Miasma and Noxious Blast deal irrelevant damage. She can't even defend herself in lane, she simply doesn't do enough damage to win a trade with anyone. The amount of work you have to put into being even an okay Cassiopeia post-rework isn't worth what she offers to a team any more.

Cassiopeia players didn't want her to be a Ryze 0.5, and you missed the "hypercarry mage" by a longshot. So please, let's fix this.

~ 9/23 Edit: I'd like to propose a few changes:

-Cassiopeia gains stacks on all minion kills. Alternatively, reduce the number of stacks required to cap out.

-Increase Noxious Blast's AP ratio to 45%. Your goal was hypercarry, let her have a late game.

-Increase Miasma's base damage and scaling. It's pathetic now. You know it. We know it. To me, its two main purposes are as a zoning tool, and as constant poison application. Nobody cares about a zoning tool that does less damage than minions.

62 Comments

Canastus9/22/2014, 8:42:27 AM16 votes

The rework was the biggest gutting this champion could have recieved. Instead of addressing her initial issues (low mobility, unreliable damage-output) they decided to slap even more handicaps onto her while locking away a fraction of her former potential for 40 minutes.

In the end she fails to outperform her old self in terms of total damage dealt, even when she manages to reach 400 stacks. Twin Fang is such a bad ability to use on regular basis since its range and mana-costs are absolutely impractical.

Her AOE and poke damage are almost nonexistent now. And don't get me started on what happens if you fall behind, you might aswell surrender the game at this point. She literally has no comeback potential anymore.

Now if you expect any of the reds to respond, I must disappoint you. We had our own share of massive discussions in the past and still no trace of their staff, it's almost as if they're deliberately ignoring our plight. Even Stashu doesn't come into his own thread anymore.

Riot has abandoned Cassiopeia players, once again. I almost feel like the victim of a hit-and-run after what they've done to her.

Rubber Jesus9/23/2014, 12:09:22 AM9 votes

You know when you have a job, and you feel like your boss is making you do work just to keep you busy? Like, make a spreadsheet on (fill in the blank), something that is extremely irrelevant and no one will ever look at.

I feel like the new Cass is this 'busy work'. All laning phase, you are trying to keep minions poisoned when they die to get stacks. You are trying to last hit every minion with E for the mana. I'm trying to just get the work done, to be done with it, because it probably doesn't matter anyways whether I do good or bad. You have a ton of stuff to keep track of, and no way to show the fruits of your labor unless your team is so fed (because you won't be), they will win regardless.

This in addition to the typical laning phase jobs of dodging skill shots and trying to poke the enemy (and you keep trying because there is no poke so it is never done). I sometimes feel like there is no point in poking unless they happen to be standing next to a dying minion. Yeah there's stacks, but also precious mana being lost for minimal damage.

I know I haven't mastered her playstyle yet, because I haven't played enough to do so post-rework. It simply is not fun, at all.

Worgslarg9/22/2014, 1:01:13 AM6 votes

Have you ever tried playing nasus without stacks? He is completely irrelevant without a large number.

However on casseopeia, stacking feels out of place.

Regarding her kit, I had not had a chance to play her pre-rework, but she is quite fun for me to play currently. Her damage seems fine once she gets some ap, her laning phase is ok but not good, however her q and w are very, very hard to land on mobile enemies with their cast time, and you cannot get the twin fang resets( all of her damage) without landing them.

She would feel better with power shifted from e to q, and q castable while moving.

Lord Graves III9/22/2014, 2:52:26 AM6 votes

She just needs number buffs in my opinion. Her Q damage isn't really irrelivant, its just too low to win lane alone.

I like the stacking mechanic. I doubted it in theory but in practice its been pretty darn cool. I just feel her numbers are undertuned. Her slow, her movespeed, her base damages maybe, she just needs light buffs. Her new play pattern is actually kinda cool. In my opinion.

Her in lane pattern is even still the same. It just doesn't let her win lane as easily.

Auryiel9/22/2014, 8:13:17 PM5 votes

I think the most important thing to consider here is that SHE IS NOT FUN TO PLAY. The passive is to blame here. If the passive was just there to enhance her late game, that'd be fine, but right now, the first 20-30 minutes of the game revolve entirely around the passive. It doesn't even feel like you're playing the same game as everyone else is. People are playing at getting kills and objectives, you're playing at getting stacks... Her early and mid game need some serious buffs to make her feel like a decent champion.

Not even gonna talk about how her poison damage is meaningless now, because obviously Riot doesn't care at all that they completely destroyed Cass' identity.

Deep Terror Nami9/22/2014, 12:09:59 PM5 votes

I enjoy using her with the rework. I'm not saying she's good or bad, just that I like her.

Lstrike9/23/2014, 7:29:17 AM4 votes

Cassiopeia went from high risk, high reward to high risk low reward..

Hellpyre9/22/2014, 8:58:35 PM4 votes

There are two problems I have with the rework.

Firstly, and most important: Cassiopeia doesn't feel like a proper poison mage anymore now that her damage was shifted out of her poison skills.

Second: Cassiopeia's new passive works poorly. The play-style that it tries to encourage would be sustainable with her old passive, but with her current mana costs, the most efficient way to stack her passive without leaving yourself out of mana to protect against ganks and the like seems to be focusing on killing waves with her poison while ignoring the lane opponent unless they bring themselves into your E range.

MrBuffington9/22/2014, 3:39:45 PM3 votes

I never really played Cassiopeia pre-rework, but post-rework I do enjoy her mechanically; the twin fangs reliability is nice. However, I do agree she seems very weak especially early laning, and could probably use some buffs all across the board.

Canastus10/7/2014, 8:54:03 AM2 votes

How much longer are they going to ignore us?

Knight SoIaire 9/22/2014, 11:36:31 AM2 votes

riot already said that they will buff her is she needs it no need to make pointless threads

Aitikian9/24/2014, 2:59:37 AM1 votes

Amongst the 3 lowest winning champions in all play styles, all ranks, all regions... 45% or lower win rate in solo diamond, platinum, and gold and bottom three champions in team 5x5 gold and below... (no 5x5team has played her enough in Plat + to rank her).

Currently the only "mid" lane champion that is constantly preforming as bad at all levels of gameplay is Azir... not Riots best patch.

My only confusion is you take a champion who was high risk high reward, there are a lot of mid lanes that were as good or better then Cass that could've gotten reworked, and you slam dunk her.

Yet you leave obvious champions who deserve a rework (Sion for one) and sideline for yet another season.

I thought the point of rework was to give each champion a place and position, instead a champion who had a place lost it.

The Queen Viper10/7/2014, 11:20:46 PM1 votes

Bump.

Rubber Jesus10/16/2014, 8:58:00 PM1 votes

Bump for Cass.

Aoiboshi9/23/2014, 6:39:22 AM1 votes

Cassiopeia

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAA!!!!!

I seem to remember when people told Karma mains to stop qq'ing.

Posiedon1479/23/2014, 12:31:57 PM1 votes

I disagree with the damage out put i feel as though this rework has made her stronger. IF you can get those stacks added up on top of having a item 3089then your wrecking face with just her miasma adding a item 3151 to her build an boom your pushing like theres no tomorrow. An shes even more awesome at denying farm as well.