Seriosuly Riot nerf vayne

InfinitexMortal·Jun 19, 2016·8 votes·1,244 views

your idea of balanced is like 10 nukes dropped on a cow

23 Comments

InfinitexMortalJun 19, 20163 votes

Lol the vayne abusers are downvoting "dont nerf my elo raiser boo hoo"

Michael SykesJun 19, 20161 votes

no, she just isn't that strong. Her laning phase is extremely weak. Literally the only adc that is "countered" by her is Kalista because she is almost unplayable outside of competitive play

AlutrosityJun 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Michael Sykes,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xj7KKvcF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-19T10:47:30.203+0000)

no, she just isn't that strong. Her laning phase is extremely weak. Literally the only adc that is "countered" by her is Kalista because she is almost unplayable outside of competitive play

A good Quinn with a proper support like Leona will shut the Vayne down at lvl3. Quinn counters Vayne incredibly hard due to her E's interrupt, and the bonus damage she gets from proccing harrier if she has statik shiv and infinity edge built. A fed Vayne will pop like a balloon, and be unable to retaliate against more damage should it fail due to Quinn's Q reducing her vision radius. Some might call this unfair, but the blind is single target-effective and it serves the same function as Vayne's ultimate, which is to prevent you from seeing her.

Michael SykesJun 19, 20161 votes

a good example

AkeneroJun 19, 20162 votes

You realize vayne literally dies in 3 hits right? Buy a pink ward for fights and kick her ass it's that simple

AlutrosityJun 19, 20162 votes

If the Vayne does decent well, by mid game, she is destroying people because 12% true damage is a lot of fucking damage, especially because by mid-game she has botrk and statik shiv finished, and the AD steroid from her ult to off-set the fact that she hasn't built a big AD item like infinity edge yet and it's because of her ult in synergy with her w that she doesn't always even need IE and can just go bloodthirster more-often-than not.

Vayne should start showing signs of power in the mid-game, but she ends up reaching her potential at that point, instead of in the late game where she is supposed to shine. The same problem happens with Nasus, he becomes a monster in the mid-game, not the late game, because he knows that the top laner is going to want to roam to help other lanes and then he starts going ape shit all over your minions.

tl;dr These late game hyper-carries are becoming mid-game hyper-carries which isn't accurate to their description, nor is it fair due to the sheer power they can dish out during their ults.

Pierce The VealJun 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If the Vayne doesn't decent well, by mid game, she is destroying people because 12% true damage is a lot of fucking damage, especially because by mid-game she has botrk and statik shiv finished, and the AD steroid from her ult to off-set the fact that she hasn't built a big AD item like infinity edge yet and it's because of her ult in synergy with her w that she doesn't always even need IE and can just go bloodthirster more-often-than not.

But ahem when she does get her IE you better lube up.

AlutrosityJun 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

But ahem when she does get her IE you better lube up.

This is why I use Quinn. She can do more damage to Vayne in a shorter amount of time with E+harrier proc to interrupt her and detonate Vayne before she can get off a single true damage proc. This is why a fed Draven can deal with Vayne, if he times his e correctly, he'll just get off one or two Qs and crit for 1200+dmg in two autos.

Remember, it always and still does take three consecutive hits autoattacks or spells to proc the true damage. If you can interrupt that process, Vayne is dead.

Pierce The VealJun 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is why I use Quinn. She can do more damage to Vayne in a shorter amount of time with E+harrier proc to interrupt her and detonate Vayne before she can get off a single true damage proc. This is why a fed Draven can deal with Vayne, if he times his e correctly, he'll just get off one or two Qs and crit for 1200+dmg in two autos.

Remember, it always and still does take three consecutive hits autoattacks or spells to proc the true damage. If you can interrupt that process, Vayne is dead.

Don't get me started on how broken quinn is.

AlutrosityJun 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Don't get me started on how broken quinn is.

She's not broken.

Pierce The VealJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She's not broken.

You're right, she gets to outspeed every champion in the game without any movement speed items and instantly burst someone with a single auto attack because she's a balanced, fun champion to play against.

AlutrosityJun 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You're right, she gets to outspeed every champion in the game without any movement speed items and instantly burst someone with a single auto attack because she's a balanced, fun champion to play against.

Quinn does not get to outspeed every champion in the game without boots though she is exceptionally fast in herd form, Udyr can easily if not definitely keep up with that, she gets heavily slowed if hit by a single caster minion to the point of ridiculousness. She gets outranged by most champions, her ult has a 3 second delay, and her vault can be interrupted by Draven's stand aside. Her burst that you speak of, while incredible is only good on champions who are purely autoattack reliant, and a good Lucian can work around this and bust her just as quickly.

You've clearly been playing Cait, Twitch, Kog, Vayne, adcs who rely heavily on their autoattacks and not other bursty champions like Ez, Lucian, and even Varus who can tango with her with a fair chance of winning or losing based on skill.

Pierce The VealJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Quinn does not get to outspeed every champion in the game without boots though she is exceptionally fast in herd form, Udyr can easily if not definitely keep up with that, she gets heavily slowed if hit by a single caster minion to the point of ridiculousness. She gets outranged by most champions, her ult has a 3 second delay, and her vault can be interrupted by Draven's stand aside. Her burst that you speak of, while incredible is only good on champions who are purely autoattack reliant, and a good Lucian can work around this and bust her just as quickly.

You've clearly been playing Cait, Twitch, Kog, Vayne, adcs who rely heavily on their autoattacks and not other bursty champions like Ez, Lucian, and even Varus who can tango with her with a fair chance of winning or losing based on skill.

Most of the ADC's fall under 550 range, which is just slightly (very slightly) longer than 525.

Here's the fact, stating the only three champions who can somewhat deal with her whatsoever doesn't make her balanced. Udyr can keep up with her when he has full movement speed, with items and everything he can possibly get to go fast. Lucian needs to dodge her inital burst, the point click vault auto attack combo when she's traveling at a million miles an hour. Draven needs to queue his stand aside before she vaults or else it won't cast in time. I'm not saying she's OP, I'm saying she's broken.

For your information, I don't play adc. I play top and midlane. And I've played Quinn for a while: long enough to know that any ADC doesn't stand a chance against Quinn unless their team is able to lock her down (which is not likely, as quinn can speed around until you separate from your team for half a second).

Ezreal, unless he's building iceborn, can't do shit or even survive quinn at all, at most he can barely blink away after her vault. Same for Lucian. But if he gets auto'ed once, he's dead. Varus isn't bursty or fast enough.

AlutrosityJun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Most of the ADC's fall under 550 range, which is just slightly (very slightly) longer than 525.

And Quinn is among most of those ADCs whose range falls under 550, meaning she can be outranged by the likes of Caitlyn, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Corki, and Varus, even Vayne outranges her, not to mention she can be pulled by Blitz, Thresh, or Nautilus hook during her vault to interrupt it.

Here's the fact, stating the only three champions who can somewhat deal with her whatsoever doesn't make her balanced. Udyr can keep up with her when he has full movement speed, with items and everything he can possibly get to go fast. Lucian needs to dodge her inital burst, the point click vault auto attack combo when she's traveling at a million miles an hour. Draven needs to queue his stand aside before she vaults or else it won't cast in time. I'm not saying she's OP, I'm saying she's broken.

Better look up.^

So because you have to put forth effort to deal with Quinn she's broken, even though you would otherwise have to do the same thing for any other champion. Why don't you go play Fizz then if you're that much of a sloth.

For your information, I don't play adc. I play top and midlane. And I've played Quinn for a while: long enough to know that any ADC doesn't stand a chance against Quinn unless their team is able to lock her down (which is not likely, as quinn can speed around until you separate from your team for half a second).

I play Quinn as well, have been for three years, and I know how strong she can become. She's an ADC designed to assassinate other ADCs and shut them down, therefore they should build death's dance+phantom dancer to reduce her burst which is a very real possibility. I'm even finding death's dance to be a more favorable item than bloodthirster on her currently. I'm glad we have a champion who can obliterate certain annoying marksman, marksman who often play the role of lane bully, making them oppressive and frustrating, especially when paired with a Leona, Tahm Kench, or Thresh who have stupidly easy peel.

Ezreal, unless he's building iceborn, can't do shit or even survive quinn at all, at most he can barely blink away after her vault.

If he's building iceborn that means he has armor, which gives him a fighting chance, since no Quinn in their right mind is going to even think about rushing youmuu's in bot lane let alone a last whisper that early on.

Same for Lucian. But if he gets auto'ed once, he's dead.

Lucian's current build gives him enough hp to survive the encounter and retaliate with frightening proficiency due to his w and the phage passive amplifying its ms effects.

Varus isn't bursty or fast enough.

Not if he kills a minion first, uses his ult, or e's on the spot where Quinn lands since she's not going to get the bonus movement speed from her w until after she's attacked. Secondly, proccing blight stacks is definitely bursty since it deals %15 of the target's max hp if he gets all three, and half the time only two are needed to get off any serious damage considering the raw stats of his Q. Thirdly, Varus builds a massive amount of AD, moreso than almost any other ADC save for Corki, so don't try to tell me a %hp burst + a spell with enormous AD scaling doesn't qualify as burst. Varus' just isn't telegraphed like Ezreal or Lucian's.

Pierce The VealJun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And Quinn is among most of those ADCs whose range falls under 550, meaning she can be outranged by the likes of Caitlyn, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Corki, and Varus, even Vayne outranges her, not to mention she can be pulled by Blitz, Thresh, or Nautilus hook during her vault to interrupt it.

Better look up.^

So because you have to put forth effort to deal with Quinn she's broken, even though you would otherwise have to do the same thing for any other champion. Why don't you go play Fizz then if you're that much of a sloth.

I play Quinn as well, have been for three years, and I know how strong she can become. She's an ADC designed to assassinate other ADCs and shut them down, therefore they should build death's dance+phantom dancer to reduce her burst which is a very real possibility. I'm even finding death's dance to be a more favorable item than bloodthirster on her currently. I'm glad we have a champion who can obliterate certain annoying marksman, marksman who often play the role of lane bully, making them oppressive and frustrating, especially when paired with a Leona, Tahm Kench, or Thresh who have stupidly easy peel.

If he's building iceborn that means he has armor, which gives him a fighting chance, since no Quinn in their right mind is going to even think about rushing youmuu's in bot lane let alone a last whisper that early on.

Lucian's current build gives him enough hp to survive the encounter and retaliate with frightening proficiency due to his w and the phage passive amplifying its ms effects.

Not if he kills a minion first, uses his ult, or e's on the spot where Quinn lands since she's not going to get the bonus movement speed from her w until after she's attacked. Secondly, proccing blight stacks is definitely bursty since it deals %15 of the target's max hp if he gets all three, and half the time only two are needed to get off any serious damage considering the raw stats of his Q. Thirdly, Varus builds a massive amount of AD, moreso than almost any other ADC save for Corki, so don't try to tell me a %hp burst + a spell with enormous AD scaling doesn't qualify as burst. Varus' just isn't telegraphed like Ezreal or Lucian's.

Anything that requires an adc to auto attack more than once won't really work unless Quinn is CC'ed.

Saying Varus's abilities aren't telegraphed is like saying Annie's stun isn't noticeable after the changes.

Lucian's build may make him stronger, but I highly doubt that it could bring him back in a fight where quinn instantly chunked 2000+ hp. On a side note, if you really want to one hit him with those items, duskblade would be interesting ;P

Honestly I prefer Quinn be strong rather than ADC's. However her design of both being a carry as well as a burster as well as a lane bully against anything that isn't an ADC/support combo is what makes her sort of broken. Not overpowered, but definitely broken.

I'm trying to be objective here and look at the big picture here. I am not trying to attack or defend quinn.

AlutrosityJun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Anything that requires an adc to auto attack more than once won't really work unless Quinn is CC'ed.

Saying Varus's abilities aren't telegraphed is like saying Annie's stun isn't noticeable after the changes.

When I said it wasn't telegraphed I was referring specifically to the blight stacks, as I notice a lot of ADCs try to trade with Varus rather freely, not realizing that he can trigger the blight stacks with his e as well as his q, so they only pay attention to his Q without realizing he has other ways to burst them down. This ontop of the fact that few people take full advantage of the fact that his hail of arrows applies grievous wounds, allows him to build upon his burst by outtrading and applying the blight again before, and throwing out a quick q to finish them off. It's easy to forget how quickly Varus can reapply the blight and in the heat of a teamfight something like that isn't always going to be noticed, and I feel that's why Varus is a bit underrated and underplayed. People just underestimate his damage.

Lucian's build may make him stronger, but I highly doubt that it could bring him back in a fight where quinn instantly chunked 2000+ hp. On a side note, if you really want to one hit him with those items, duskblade would be interesting ;P

Quinn isn't going to instantly chunk 2000+hp I think the hardest I ever hit someone with Quinn was for around 1450hp which can definitely seem like instant death if her next attack crits as well, or if she follows up the harrier proc into a q, which I admit is a somewhat controversial ability to have as it nearly guarantees her the win. That said I think it's healthier than her AoE blind which made it flat-out impossible for multiple targets to so much as autoattack if they got hit close enough together.

Honestly I prefer Quinn be strong rather than ADC's. However her design of both being a carry as well as a burster as well as a lane bully against anything that isn't an ADC/support combo is what makes her sort of broken. Not overpowered, but definitely broken.

If we're talking top lane she can be dealt with by Kayle, Gnar, Cho'Gath and sometimes even Malphite if the lane is played right.

I'm trying to be objective here and look at the big picture here. I am not trying to attack or defend quinn.

Quinn should always be defended. She's a pretty good deterrent against a lot of bullshit ADCs who have way too easy laning phases. If anything I view Quinn as an anti-bully, someone who bullies the bullies by punishing lazy actions.

Pierce The VealJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When I said it wasn't telegraphed I was referring specifically to the blight stacks, as I notice a lot of ADCs try to trade with Varus rather freely, not realizing that he can trigger the blight stacks with his e as well as his q, so they only pay attention to his Q without realizing he has other ways to burst them down. This ontop of the fact that few people take full advantage of the fact that his hail of arrows applies grievous wounds, allows him to build upon his burst by outtrading and applying the blight again before, and throwing out a quick q to finish them off. It's easy to forget how quickly Varus can reapply the blight and in the heat of a teamfight something like that isn't always going to be noticed, and I feel that's why Varus is a bit underrated and underplayed. People just underestimate his damage.

Quinn isn't going to instantly chunk 2000+hp I think the hardest I ever hit someone with Quinn was for around 1450hp which can definitely seem like instant death if her next attack crits as well, or if she follows up the harrier proc into a q, which I admit is a somewhat controversial ability to have as it nearly guarantees her the win. That said I think it's healthier than her AoE blind which made it flat-out impossible for multiple targets to so much as autoattack if they got hit close enough together.

If we're talking top lane she can be dealt with by Kayle, Gnar, Cho'Gath and sometimes even Malphite if the lane is played right.

Quinn should always be defended. She's a pretty good deterrent against a lot of bullshit ADCs who have way too easy laning phases. If anything I view Quinn as an anti-bully, someone who bullies the bullies by punishing lazy actions.

You'd have to be pretty bad at the game to not notice Varus's blight stacks, plus all his abilities are highly telegraphed and easy to dodge.

If quinn isn't chunking 2000 hp with a crit, her passive, skystrike, and vault (note vault applies her passive), then you're utterly building her wrong. Do note that 2000 damage is my lower estimate for her burst. She could easily do 3000.

So toplane has to send one of two ranged toplaners, the highest lane sustain champion of them all, or a champion who builds pure armor to deal with her.

If anything, quinn is THE BULLY. Look, I hate ADC's more than anyone in the world (probably), but Quinn is NOT the antibully, she is just a big bad bully that just so happens to also be able to bully bullies. Because guess what? She also bullies nonbullies, so if anything, she is one of the biggest bullies of them all. And you're arguing she should be defended because of that.

AlutrosityJun 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You'd have to be pretty bad at the game to not notice Varus's blight stacks, plus all his abilities are highly telegraphed and easy to dodge.

In a teamfight, missing something like that is very easy to do, and Varus rarely needs to fully charge his q for it to do meaningful damage.

If quinn isn't chunking 2000 hp with a crit, her passive, skystrike, and vault (note vault applies her passive), then you're utterly building her wrong. Do note that 2000 damage is my lower estimate for her burst. She could easily do 3000.

Before you said a single autoattack. I want to know what this build is that allows you to hit for 3000hp nearly instantly.

So toplane has to send one of two ranged toplaners, the highest lane sustain champion of them all, or a champion who builds pure armor to deal with her.

Yes, and that is a legitimate strategy with very little drawbacks to team composition.

If anything, quinn is THE BULLY. Look, I hate ADC's more than anyone in the world (probably), but Quinn is NOT the antibully, she is just a big bad bully that just so happens to also be able to bully bullies. Because guess what? She also bullies nonbullies, so if anything, she is one of the biggest bullies of them all. And you're arguing she should be defended because of that.

Quinn isn't equipped the same way most lane bullies are: she risks getting Blitz E'd, Leona Q'd, Morgana snared, Lux snared, snared by Zyra, not because she's going near the ADC with her vault but because she's actually making direct contact with them, preventing them from abusing long-ranged poke like Ezreal's q, Lucian's q which can easily be used to poke and farm with simultaneously, or Corki's e which acts as an instant deterrent to him losing the trade while increasing his win potential, and all that happens every time she goes in for a vault. Most lane bullies if not all of them do not have those direct drawbacks to their kits that make their lane bullying ways very exploitable.

Secondly, Quinn's q ensures that ADCs can't capitalize too much on their harass when they try to go in by reducing their vision range, giving her the ability to punish them for using their abilities and thinking they can follow it up with an easy tandem assault. Can be used for ensuring an easy win in late game? Yes, and it should be used to its full potential, and that's why the skillshot is narrow to begin with and easy to dodge. She's an anti-bully because she interferes with the tactics most lane bullies use to oppress their enemy ADCs with, similar to how Urgot will fuck over melee carries for getting too close to him with his E+Q+W or just swap them under his turret.

As for top lane? Most top laners have either ranged harass or an easy gap closer to get in on her, sometimes both in the case of Maokai and Gnar, Garen is capable of silencing her if he ques it right when she tries to vault, Darius can que his pull to make sure she doesn't gain distance from him with the vault. Cho'Gath needs naught but to use his rupture to disrupt her combo and silence her to ensure he wins the trade.

Crazy ChatterJun 19, 20162 votes

Kinda see ur point. Played vayne yesterday for the first time. Got rekt in laning phase but literally beat the enemy adc who was an item ahead and the apc solo by using ult.

ItankyouJun 19, 20161 votes

lol OP is boosted

TbarbzJun 27, 20161 votes

if vayne is broken and op, why is it that almost noone plays her? she is considered one of the worst adcs atm.

BotRakaMay 24, 20171 votes

So it's now 2017 and vayne is still as broken as ever aha... I don't see why a champ should have the amount of movement speed/lifesteal/crit that vayne does... It seems like all adc's can build the same build but she alone can just go 1v3 without being fed. Those who say she's squishy are right BUT it doesn't matter because she just lifesteals faster than u can do damage...