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Riot why are Turrets made out of Wet Toilet Paper?

InfinitexMortal··139 votes·15,456 views

Turrets feel like they are made out of wet toilet paper and the problem just gets worse each season. This season if you get cheese ganked before 10 minutes, one time, there goes your turret 100% to 0% before you can get back to lane. If they bring 3 or 4 people on the cheese gank, there goes both of your turrets.

And with the game being so focused on high dmg snowbally champs at the moment, 1 turret down often results in the game being over by 13 minutes with no way to turtle or come back. This isnt helped by the fact that turrets seem to do no damage to champions past the 10 minute mark. Plus the new siege rune and the Rift Herald are to easily abused by snowbally teams and completely overkill as turrets are already squishy as is.

Not asking for anything drastic just asking for you to at the very least change the wet toilet paper turrets into dry toilet paper turrets that take a little longer to take down. Games were meant to be 35-60 minutes long not this new dream of 15-30.

Listen to your community for once and get the LCS visions of 15 minute games out of your eyes please Riot. This game has so much potential if you would only focus on the gameplay once again and not focus on making LCS more flashy and exciting.

92 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectar28 votes

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

Infernape6 votes

Why is it that games are becoming more snowbally? Most of the games I play end within the first 20 minutes.

Karn Bishop14 votes

Part of it is that they didn't put in proper balance checks vs lethality users to account for over all armor loss on many champions, the other part is they did not nerf champions that would likely continue being a problem such as twitch.

Wráthful2 votes

{quoted}

Why is it that games are becoming more snowbally? Most of the games I play end within the first 20 minutes.

cuz towers melt like butter and if u back at the wrong time u lose a tower lose 2more towers and the gold lead is already 2k pre 15 min a tower can be killed in 15 sec by most ad champs top so

Automated Riven3 votes

No it fucking can't. 15 seconds is way too fucking short. Maybe at 15 minutes. If your fed. And have a stacked wave.

If you disagree I would love to see a video.

Dengeden1 votes

They don't take kindly to folks who ask for evidence around here.

Automated Riven1 votes

I mean lets be honest, I just want to know so I know what I am doing wrong.

Here I was at 7 minutes, udyr and I dove malphite with a semi stacked wave. And the fucking noob I am cant fucking take down the almost full HP tower in under 45 seconds. So really i just want to know why I suck so bad. The boards are telling me I should be doing this in 30 seconds less then I am.

https://youtu.be/qCAg8C48YcE

By the way, I completely agree that its discusting that I took the tower this early, But i just want people to be honest instead of grossly exagerating.

Jrud1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e00000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-19T15:44:15.597+0000)

I mean lets be honest, I just want to know so I know what I am doing wrong.

Here I was at 7 minutes, udyr and I dove malphite with a semi stacked wave. And the fucking noob I am cant fucking take down the almost full HP tower in under 45 seconds. So really i just want to know why I suck so bad. The boards are telling me I should be doing this in 30 seconds less then I am.

https://youtu.be/qCAg8C48YcE

By the way, I completely agree that its discusting that I took the tower this early, But i just want people to be honest instead of grossly exagerating.

He didn't say at what point in the game they can 10 second a tower, but I remembered this game where the nasus could literally walk up to a tower and 1v1 it without minions.

In this clip it's 100 to 0 in 9 seconds. If he had crit with the other 2 Q's like he did on the 3rd one I think he could have done it himself in under 10.

https://youtu.be/LlbvT5i5FGs

This is litterally what it takes to take a tower in under 10 seconds.

Automated Riven1 votes

{quoted}

cuz towers melt like butter and if u back at the wrong time u lose a tower lose 2more towers and the gold lead is already 2k pre 15 min a tower can be killed in 15 sec by most ad champs top so

Oh my bad. I misunderstood the post. I thought pre 15 minutes meant before 15 minutes in the game. This must be another reason that I suck at the game. I don't even know basic english. Here, now I have been explained that somehow either I suck because I take a tower in 45 seconds or the phrase "pre 15 minutes" really means nothing related to time. Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-16T11:51:07.043+0000)

No it fucking can't. 15 seconds is way too fucking short. Maybe at 15 minutes. If your fed. And have a stacked wave.

If you disagree I would love to see a video.

^^ this is the post I got downvoted for, where a pointed out that you could maybe kill a tower at 15 minutes in under 15 seconds. but only if your fed and with a stacked wave. So yes, the discussion was before 15 minutes.

Jrud1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-19T19:02:38.295+0000)

Oh my bad. I misunderstood the post. I thought pre 15 minutes meant before 15 minutes in the game. This must be another reason that I suck at the game. I don't even know basic english. Here, now I have been explained that somehow either I suck because I take a tower in 45 seconds or the phrase "pre 15 minutes" really means nothing related to time. Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.

^^ this is the post I got downvoted for, where a pointed out that you could maybe kill a tower at 15 minutes in under 15 seconds. but only if your fed and with a stacked wave. So yes, the discussion was before 15 minutes.

Well, he doesn't use punctuation so I can't really tell if the 15 minute section is supposed to go with the gold lead, the 15 second towers, or both.

Also you don't have to get all snippy and sarcastic. I wasn't the one that downvoted you, and I thought you made a decent point. I wasn't even really disagreeing with you. If anything, I think my clip just goes to further prove your point that a 15 second tower is pretty tough for a top laner.

Automated Riven2 votes

Hey sorry man. Sometimes I can get really sarcastic and snide with people who I feel are cherry picking facts (as I felt about the guy I was originally talking about it with) I misunderstood your post, I felt like you had simply come to argue something without reading the context. (Although I get why the first posters, post was hard to follow) and as such I have made quite an ass of myself.

I try to treat most people kindly and usually do. But it simply bothers me when people ignore facts to distort a narrative to suit their own views. I simply have no time for it and tend to simply mock them, because I don't know how to have a rational discussion with people who refuse to speak factually.

None of this applies to you, I simply am explaining why I was underservdly rude to you.

Ling story short, I apologize. (and I think that the speed towers fall late game is a little to high also) but that's a different discussion.

Jrud1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e000000010000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-21T02:10:09.175+0000)

Hey sorry man. Sometimes I can get really sarcastic and snide with people who I feel are cherry picking facts (as I felt about the guy I was originally talking about it with) I misunderstood your post, I felt like you had simply come to argue something without reading the context. (Although I get why the first posters, post was hard to follow) and as such I have made quite an ass of myself.

I try to treat most people kindly and usually do. But it simply bothers me when people ignore facts to distort a narrative to suit their own views. I simply have no time for it and tend to simply mock them, because I don't know how to have a rational discussion with people who refuse to speak factually.

None of this applies to you, I simply am explaining why I was underservdly rude to you.

Ling story short, I apologize. (and I think that the speed towers fall late game is a little to high also) but that's a different discussion.

All is forgiven. And +1 for an apology. You never see apologies on forums. Who do you think you are, Gandhi?

Automated Riven1 votes

Nah. I just try to keep a fact based perspective. That includes understanding my own faults. So when I fuck up I usually tend to realize it pretty quick.

mostwan3d3 votes

100% Agree.Sometimes games get so one sided that it's just not fun

GoogleCardboard29 votes

Would be nice to get some actual numbers...

Is this going to be a +5 Armor meme?

Velzard of Koz53 votes

He said they will be tankier. So they are getting model update to look like a tank

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Amasa Delano7 votes

I hope this is the case.

Bob the Toastr2 votes

Nah, it'll be a 5 AD meme.

OldDirtay4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-15T20:08:48.065+0000)

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

so for "awhile" now (least over 2 seasons now mind you) turrets have been weak and you've known this.....

KNOWING this, you create a rune* to DAMAGE TURRETS MORE before a buff for them was added?

please correct me if this is not (at best) horrible logic.....then afterward tell me when turrets will actually get a buff? because right now your saying tat you knew for awhile, did nothing to help it, just recently made it worse...and now its a "slight" buff to being tankier?

so this little "buff" will cancel (or less) the new rune* you made to make em go down quicker....so now we left with the original turrets that dont do enough damage while STILL not having ENOUGH HP to defend it?

why is riot logic always azzbackwards? this is my serious question....

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

MooooooooreDakka2 votes

I'm honestly not sure how effective demolish is because turrets tend to be dying too fast for it to go off (not a good thing), it's main use is when the tank is pushing without the whole team where it is okay for them to do a bit more damage.

Fütanari6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-15T20:08:48.065+0000)

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

Slightly? Dude everyone complains about turrets why are they not buffed up the ass? The games are 10 minutes because you can 100-0 them with no minions.

Sqkerg2 votes

Okay, I get that you're trying to make a point, but putting such obvious exaggerations such as "the game ending at 10 minutes" and people "100-0ing turrets w/ no minions" really just throws your credibility out the window.

VelvetRoomLolis9 votes

I still don't understand why you made inhib and nexus turrets weaker by changing the ray to a proyectile, it made it harder to defend against tanks and super minions, you are doing what you said that shouldn't happen, you have to buff turrets then minions and then champions for an endless cycle of buffs, this doesn't make sense at all. Is like when stoneplate came out and made cho'gath op, for what is the pbe then apart from trying to prevent this type of thing from happening? Every time i hear that the pbe is only for testing skins i believe it more and more when things like this happen

Fairyfleur2 votes

It's just so hard to test the balance of something on PBE because there's a huge variety of elo's in every single game, along with the fact that people there don't take games as seriously.

Gosh Darn4 votes

Being weak and falling too quickly is a problem, but the real problem is mobility creep. Champions like Lee and Khazix can dive you, kill you, and back out with only 1-2 turret shots, and can even survive if they mess up. Would be nice if turrets slowed or immobilized early on. EX: Before 10 minutes, turret shots slow by 20% on first hit, 40% on second, with the 3rd hit stunning for 1 second.

TruelyTrueTrueth2 votes

i like the idea but to be honest its a dumb one

Shnabbydoodle2 votes

i meaaaaaaaaannnn I kinda like the idea but the Lee is just gonna double q and kill you before jumping right out with a wardhop or a minion hop and the slow doesn't make the range of his dash smaller so it'd only affect late game tanks who are trying to get to the frontline during a dive

Edit: I'm stupid it says before 10 minutes

CleverCactus2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-15T20:08:48.065+0000)

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

Will they do more damage as well?

xelaker2 votes

patch 7.23: turrets 3+ armor -300 health to compensate

AetherArising2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-15T20:08:48.065+0000)

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

A step in the right direction, but drastic is likely what will need to be done. It'll actually probably encourage more aggro play anyways since turret diving would be idiocy, so more kills to clear the obstacle protecting a turret.

What the problem is right now is that if i go with a press the attack ADC, especially Tristana, and have a Leona or other peel support, we can clear the botlane twice and then take turret by 7 mins or under. Look at my most recent game as Leona and Xayah, my friend and i were duoing and jesus christ the turret just got deleted

xelaker22 votes

because you didn't buy enough rp. now riot has to cut costs, and turrets are first in line.

SamBunzly1 votes

Remind me how paying for in-game currency has anything to do with increasing 3 little numbers in the code...? :|

It Hertz When IP25 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/992/401/e37.png

GraćSięNieDa19 votes

Sadly, I have to agree. I started somewhere around the end of S2 - picked up Fiora then, with Madred's Bloodrazor being my core item unless I felt I could spam 5 Tiamats + LW. Those were the days: finishing before 40th minute mark was actually challenging, and games lasting over 50 minutes were not so uncommon. It all revolved much more around scalling and decision making, there was always a chance for comeback, everything could be countered as defensive and offensive measures were all balanced (despite stacking Tiamats xD). But these days? Papers and tanks alike explode on touch, as if soap bubbles floating around. Turrets fall at 6th minute mark due to overwhelming damage fiesta. Chances for a comeback? Null, cause a losing team cannot abuse their turrets like they used to, simply because turrets don't last 15 seconds anymore and, well, deal close to no damage. This game has become really disappointing.

Vectros11 votes

I can relate. Had a game a few days ago-after acing the enemy team, we went down mid and killed 3 turrets, without minions.

At level 11. I could see level 18 doing that, but level 10-11? Way too early to destroy an entire lane without even using minions. We weren't even really ahead-they had 2 kills up on us after we aced them!

bàn9 votes

#FUCKESPORTS

Lakega8 votes

{quoted}

Turrets feel like they are made out of wet toilet paper and the problem just gets worse each season. This season if you get cheese ganked before 10 minutes, one time, there goes your turret 100% to 0% before you can get back to lane. If they bring 3 or 4 people on the cheese gank, there goes both of your turrets.

And with the game being so focused on high dmg snowbally champs at the moment, 1 turret down often results in the game being over by 13 minutes with no way to turtle or come back. This isnt helped by the fact that turrets seem to do no damage to champions past the 10 minute mark. Plus the new siege rune and the Rift Herald are to easily abused by snowbally teams and completely overkill as turrets are already squishy as is.

Not asking for anything drastic just asking for you to at the very least change the wet toilet paper turrets into dry toilet paper turrets that take a little longer to take down. Games were meant to be 35-60 minutes long not this new dream of 15-30.

Listen to your community for once and get the LCS visions of 15 minute games out of your eyes please Riot. This game has so much potential if you would only focus on the gameplay once again and not focus on making LCS more flashy and exciting.

I think you're only hitting the surface of the problem here. THe problem is the fact that there is so much snowball mechanics in the game atm.

Turrets losing power as game goes on.

Dragons gradually buffing the team(s), usually the team winning gets the dragons, and more dragons, and more, its a slow snowball mechanic.

Rift Herald nuff said, 9/10 times the team alerady winning is going to get it, only securing their victory more.

Baron and Elder, etc.

It's almost impossible these days to come back from a loss unless the other team massively screws up, and that isn't what a good well balanced game should be. "The team winning by 10 minutes wins unless seriously screwing up, or the other team has a late game mega steroid champion like Twitch".

That's just messed up on so many levels for balance.

But alas, that's what riots gone for, and what they have. A game who's balance doesn't actually exist, but revolves around snowball mechanics and steroid overdose champs who have insane power output cuz you have x, y item and are past 10 mins..

It's become a snowball vs steroid game. Instead of skill, and ouplays vs skill and outplays.

Tactical Barrels6 votes

I remember on the old client each que type used to have an approximate timing.

Now I see why you removed it.

iamthegoatofwar5 votes

They're trying to kill the game is the only conclusion I can come to...I said it a while back I think just before pre-season, or during the ardent bs...3 years left...tops.

Vizulix5 votes

Agreed. I miss the olden days where 40+ min games were actually semi common.

I miss the days of close adrenaline pumping matches extending past an hour.....

But I guess Rito like all matches being extremely one sided and less than 25 minutes long...

Automated Riven4 votes

FFS it has been stated repeatedly that there are buffs coming to turrets. Can we please stop complaining until the buffs actually happen?? I swear to god every other day someone complains and yet another rioter pops in to say "ya we have buffs coming, they weren't ready for 7.22 but they should be shipping 7.23"

Geez people.

Automated Riven4 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M85EEWLB-does-riot-actually-listen-to-our-feedback?comment=000a00010002

InfinitexMortal5 votes

Eh ill believe it when i see it gotta take everything Riot says with a huge grain of salt. Remember dynamic when they said we would for sure get solo queue back very soon then said no that was never their plan then went back on that and gave it back a season later. Well i do. And if there is always the possibility the "buffs" to towers is like +10 armor or +20 hp just to say they buffed turrets.

So i will believe Riot PR when there is solid evidence of said changes and not just a PR guy trying to calm the storm. RIP Volibear item 3070

Miytko3 votes

I went to try Zoe on the PBE, they enabled practice tool and custom games for 1, so I went vs 5 beginner bots I went midlane, and got my bot inhibitor destroyed... at minute 9...

Karunamon3 votes

That actually doesn't surprise me much - bots tend to cluster up on one lane together, especially if they're winning or losing badly. Even at low levels, five champs in one lane will shred like crazy. If you ever want to stomp them, go Anivia. They'll happily stand around in her ult and you can get easy pentas.

Euro Crem3 votes

7:30, turrets go down not even 10 minutes into the game. This better get fixed, but makes preseason not much fun to play

1Maza2 votes

I don't care if the turrets die fast to 3 champions honestly, that makes sense. What I want is for turrets to actually be threatening so the enemy Lee Sin can't dive me at 4 minutes and walk away with over half his health.

InfinitexMortal2 votes

Yeah i agree with that part for sure. Turret dives should be risky and too many champs seem to just shrug off turret hits like they are nothing.

AdderTude2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah i agree with that part for sure. Turret dives should be risky and too many champs seem to just shrug off turret hits like they are nothing.

Or have some MS buff that makes them only take one or two shots because they can run in and out of range with impunity while poking inside turret range all throughout early game.

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PXqgGQss,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-11-15T20:08:48.065+0000)

I talked about it before on the boards - but we have some tuning to turrets going out in 7.23 that we were looking at for awhile. It's not going to be anything drastic, but they'll be slightly tankier next patch.

So...what? They'll go from being wet toilet paper to dry toilet paper? Or will they be just like a single plain sheet of paper? Are they gonna hit harder, too, or will their shots continue to be like wimpy slaps?

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