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Can we discuss the "Current Best Mid laners" Win rates?

Misses Old Talon··9 votes·1,136 views
Gyazo

Ahri was recently nerfed, and awhile back so were all the assassins (Besides Fizz, getting massive AP buffs across the board to kill tank fizz), yet Anivia for roughly 6 patches in a row, still not only remains top 5, but is number 1 now. Why? Because..

Shes a safe mage with high zoning potential. Has insane burst, going as far as to hit 300's with her empowered E alone at level 6 with just a tear and dorans. A revive that early game almost no one can kill solo due to cool downs. A stun from her Q Garentees thunder lords from just an auto during lane, because her Q has two instances of damage for absolutely no reason. No champion currently in the game can contest her wave clear at level 6 and after.

despite not only having insane wave clear and safety, but ALSO having the ability to pop people safely from afar nearly instantly, faster than any Assassin with an identical score, she has received next to no nerfs, besides her ultimate (Glacial Storm) taking time to ramp up. The time to ramp up the E bonus damage was never the main issue. Her Q still instantly Garen tees her the damage from E if it hits, and her ultimate slows AND she has a wall, making it nearly impossible to miss this spell. Then, while still stunned and taking the E bonus damage, youre still being ticked by her ultimate, and still slown,Garen teeing her another E, if you somehow survived the first one. Why has next too nothing been done about this champion yet???

EDIT: Before anyone flies in like that whole Lux fiasco a season back, thinking I'm on the bandwagon, I'm not. I don't want Anivia to be a worthless champion like old Yorick was due to not proper balancing and handling, but I don't want her to be this monster that hits two buttons to kill someone while pushing either. I just want her in a balanced spot. This post isnt to try and talk about killing the bird, nor to bash mains of Anivia. I genuinely want us, as a community too come together and think of a way to balance this champion in a good way. Personally, I think we should give her the old insta ult back, but lower the damage amplification on her E, as well as remove the double tick from her Q, and make it only one instance of damage, but then compensate it with either a raised base damage by about..lets say +15 at level 1, scaling into a higher base of the current Q by +50 at max rank, or instead of raised bases, give her a bit more scaling, but in return make the CD of it slightly longer (Lets say one second longer.)

9 Comments

undesirable team4 votes

all of ur Garen tees give me anXayah ty

Catastrop4 votes

Anivia is number one sure, but that does not mean she's even remotely unbalanced.

Yes the Egg is frustrating, especially late game, but in the early game you have the jungler come help you pop it and you take away most of the lane aggression she had. Late game while it's definitely annoying, one big mistake I see people make is to focus the egg. Don't do that, she gets increased resistances at point while in egg form, use that time to go after her team and just collapse on her after. I see no issue with using W to land a Q, it's a hard skill shot land by itself, like every other champion with hard skill shots in the game, she needs a way make hitting it easier aside from just pure skill.

The Q has two ticks, because it's a 100% AP ratio hit if you land both, combined with the E nerf a while ago she actually needs to work for her damage compared to most other mages who can just press two buttons in any other and circumstance for max damage. It also adds a level of skill expression to her kit because you can either go the hard route and land the Q>E combo, or go the easier route with R>E. With R>E being gated behind the R's ramp up to level out the reward factor and giving much more counterplay to the enemy.

Honestly, she's like the immobile Ahri. Not especially overbearing because she has clear weaknesses and room for counterplay and tons of skill expression built into what is a generally simple kit which makes for great fun when played well. Basically, the type of champion Riot wants to be meta. Nothing has been about her because really nothing needs to be done, she's more balanced than she ever was in past seasons.

Also, those are "current best midlaners"? Sona and Zac? What even.

Misses Old Talon1 votes

{quoted}

Anivia is number one sure, but that does not mean she's even remotely unbalanced.

Yes the Egg is frustrating, especially late game, but in the early game you have the jungler come help you pop it and you take away most of the lane aggression she had. Late game while it's definitely annoying, one big mistake I see people make is to focus the egg. Don't do that, she gets increased resistances at point while in egg form, use that time to go after her team and just collapse on her after. I see no issue with using W to land a Q, it's a hard skill shot land by itself, like every other champion with hard skill shots in the game, she needs a way make hitting it easier aside from just pure skill.

The Q has two ticks, because it's a 100% AP ratio hit if you land both, combined with the E nerf a while ago she actually needs to work for her damage compared to most other mages who can just press two buttons in any other and circumstance for max damage. It also adds a level of skill expression to her kit because you can either go the hard route and land the Q>E combo, or go the easier route with R>E. With R>E being gated behind the R's ramp up to level out the reward factor and giving much more counterplay to the enemy.

Honestly, she's like the immobile Ahri. Not especially overbearing because she has clear weaknesses and room for counterplay and tons of skill expression built into what is a generally simple kit which makes for great fun when played well. Basically, the type of champion Riot wants to be meta. Nothing has been about her because really nothing needs to be done, she's more balanced than she ever was in past seasons.

Also, those are "current best midlaners"? Sona and Zac? What even.

The screen cap is obviously not all mid laners. In it, how ever are the two "Best" mid laners currently in the meta. The screen cap was just for reference. (All though Sona mid does have a surprisingly high win loss ratio tbh.) The issue here Isn't that she has the ability to help land her skill shots with a wall/Ulti Slow. The issue is that a zone mage, with so many strengths ontop of zoning, can out damage an assassin as well, even if they have the exact same scores.

Chønklord3 votes

Fizz ap was also nerfed

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

Cannot contest?

Ziggs will have something to say about that

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Compare play rates.

Anivia is strong yes, maybe overly so, but Ahri got nerfed (and may need further nerfs) because she has almost 4x Anivia's play rate according to your pic there.

Lucian Waifu1 votes

Ziggs is better than Anivia because he has safer waveclear and better poke, no one plays him because he needs higher mechanical skill to hit his skill shots.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

Anivia is not broken and does not need any nerfs, she is fine the way she is. She has a lot of weaknesses and is very easy to beat in lane and a lot of mid lane champions do well into her. Just to clarify a few things on what you said...

First of all she won't hit 300s with her empowered E at level 6 unless the Anivia avoids putting a point in her wall to put a 4th point in her E. Normally she would have 3 points in her E by level 6 which would mean it does 200 + 100% AP when it's empowered, but as you mentioned she has to rush a item 3070 so the only AP she'll have at that time would be from her runes + item 1056 which would be on average of like 30-40 AP so her empowered E would do around 230-240 damage at level 6.

Compare that to some one who you also mentioned like Ahri where her Q also hits 2 times and the damage is 180 + 70% AP for both hits together. Add to the fact that Ahri goes straight into AP, where her first back would be either item 3108 item 3802 either one so 25 AP + 15 from runes + 15 from Doran's putting her at 55 AP average and her Q would do like 218 damage. That is not even counting that she gets a movement speed boost during it, half of the damage from her Q is True damage AND She can do that damage with only one spell and doesn't require a set up like how Anivia does to make her E empowered.

Now back onto Anivia: You mention about her Egg...Remember that it has a 4 minute CD. If you jump on her and use your entire kit and force her into her egg but couldn't kill her, just back off and repeat that again once your ultimate comes back. Average ultimate is like 80-100 seconds, so you'll have well enough time to jump on her and actually kill her 2-3 times before her passive comes back. Also because of her egg and her kit, she has the lowest HP in the game and the lowest movement speed in the game with no movement speed or mobility. If you get on to her, she will easily die and very quickly. Even with item 3027 item 3040, she spends like half of the HP from RoA just to catch up to the average mage because she has like 100-200 HP less than most if not all mages besides for a select few.

Yes her wave clear post 6 is very high and can be annoying but guess what? There are other mages who have very very strong wave clear that can easily clear waves with only spending a 1/3 of the mana cost like Morgana Velkoz Viktor Ziggs and there are even more that is still pretty strong that I didn't list. However, Anivia's Pre 6 wave clear isn't very strong at all so take advantage of that and constantly push her into her tower because with her very limited pre 6 wave clear and her terrible AD/AS + one of the worst AA animations, it's very hard for her to CS under tower pre level 6. But as I mentioned, once she hits level 6...sure she has that amazing wave clear but it costs her so much mana to clear the waves, when compared to Viktor who could press E and clear entire waves with that alone for like 100 mana, mean while Anivia has to spend over 200-300 Mana to clear that same wave.

Also you mentioned about how Anivia's use their walls/ultimate to slow down targets to make sure their Q hits for the empowered E...That's called having a kit that synergies with her kit. And all your changes would severely gut Anivia.

She doesn't need changes at all. If she was broken/to strong then how come... She isn't played much? She has like 1% popularity She is barely played in LCS currently? She was picked like 2 games that I saw, both games she did poorly Even Froggen who is probably considered one of the best Anivia players in the world, doesn't even play her And she is rarely banned. Even with 10 bans now, she still only sit at like a 2% ban rate.

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