With Kog Maw being reverted, I'm curious as to what Riot thinks about the current state of Graves

Vallalan··8 votes·746 views

Not being biased here. I know a lot of adc mains like old graves and say he was fun, but I'm not one of those kids. I'm just genuinely curious what the balance team thinks of Graves. As a plat 3 player about to hit plat 2 and I can confidently say that in the right hands Graves is completely busted right now. I am not entirely sure he is ever going to be balance-able either.

that said, old graves is basically just a burstier Lucian, but current graves is basically a tanky ranged marksman, who builds sustain, but can also burst. I mean with enough attack speed (either zerkers or PD) the reload mechanic is hardly noticeable compared to how much he can heal with warlords/a lifesteal item.

current graves honestly just scales too well and has no real drawbacks. He's a range bruiser basically, he has sustain, he has wave clear, he has burst, he has sustained damage, he's tanky enough, he's mobile, he's got utility in the form of his smoke screen.

I mean his kit is entirely too good. He's got way too much going for him right now. There's no reason not to play him when he's up if you are a competent player.

So what do you guys think about Graves? do you think he will need changes, or is it just a numbers thing? do you actually feel he's balanced even for higher elo?

16 Comments

OneMustFall2 votes

I haven't heard any notable high elo players complain about Graves at all and the games I've seen suggest he is fairly balanced in higher elo. He is a strong pick almost anywhere but he also can get shut down pretty hard if you know how to play against him. As an old Graves player, I dislike his new playstyle completely though and wish they'd bring his old self back so I could play him again.

Vallalan3 votes

what are you talking about. he is perma ban the higher up you get. in plat where I am he is not quite perma ban, but banned often enough and played quite a bit. hes very popular. the number one ranked player was complaining that he cant play graves at all because its perma banned so he is stuck playing olaf jungle.

OneMustFall1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cute Boosted ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xc67clV3,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-09-19T12:26:38.792+0000)

what are you talking about. he is perma ban the higher up you get. in plat where I am he is not quite perma ban, but banned often enough and played quite a bit. hes very popular. the number one ranked player was complaining that he cant play graves at all because its perma banned so he is stuck playing olaf jungle.

That's not true. He has one of the highest playrates in Diamond/Masters and he's only 8th in ban rate.

Vallalan1 votes

{quoted}

That's not true. He has one of the highest playrates in Diamond/Masters and he's only 8th in ban rate.

rank 1 is challenger bud.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=tardzaned

rank 1 player, hasnt played graves in like 2 days. because he's perma banned.

I'm not entirely sure on his ban rate in diamond and masters, as most of the ban rate sites lump plat + together. but I'd imagine its an increasing rate towards the top of the ladder.

8th in ban rate is still relatively high especially considering there is a lot of things actually worth banning right now between vlad, gangplank, yasuo, zac, Kog, etc.

I'd also like to note I should probably say pick/ban rather than perma ban. he is either going to be banned or picked. the higher up you get.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

His current kit is more interesting... He was generic. I think that we can expect more low ranged marksmen in the future - there are tons of them in DOTA, here we have Graves, Gnar, Teemo, Jayce and Urgot.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Before the Graves rework, there was a long run of picking either Graves or Lucian based on whoever had higher numbers.

They had similar waveclear, kiting, mobility and similar ult range.

At least not Graves is his own champion, not just the other side of the Lucian coin.

Evewynn2 votes

It's just a numbers problem right now. I really like his design, he just needs to be toned back a bit. Shave some of his optimal damage and free tank stats.

Radiant Seraph1 votes

I hope Riot would find out about this. It would be pretty funny to read a Rioter's comments about him

Oleandervine1 votes

You can thank the designer of Kalista and Yasuo for Graves' rework.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

You can thank the designer of Kalista and Yasuo for Graves' rework.

Oh CertainlyT reworked graves? that explains alot.

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

Oh CertainlyT reworked graves? that explains alot.

And Caitlyn.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

And Caitlyn.

of course he did....

Oleandervine1 votes

{quoted}

of course he did....

https://media.giphy.com/media/Y2nbrJyAR6RiM/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

P.S. Warwick's VGU is being handled by him too.

Spaceman5pff1 votes

Graves seems to have found his place in a very unique role between melee fighter and ranged ADC. I doubt Riot is anything but thrilled with how his rework came out.

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

His only problem is his tankiness, anything else comes at a price, tons of damage from AA ? - you can block them, and he has to reload + shortest range. Q+R combo do a lot of damage? Both can be dodged, Q easily at that.

He was overtuned at launch but got nerfed consistantly over the season till his damage is not unhealthy. I was maining graves before his rework and yes - he was pretty stale, give him a dash, some utility and a damaging Q ability and call it a day, his rework gave him his own niche as a close ranged duelist.

in a perfect world, he would only have windows of tankiness, but itemization this year has really gone back and forth and i think items are problems for a lot if champions (duskblade, that fist item, sunfire+ice born).

Shave some free stats from his E, and stop touching him already, he's not even getting picked that much anymore.

By the way im plat 5, and ever since his popularity drop in the lcs, ive barely seen him being touched.

WinBoat1 votes

I love his kit now. Much better than the old Graves.

I also am one who thinks he isn't broken. He's strong, but not broken level to where I would want a change. So many champions can take him 1v1, so yeah.

More from Gameplay

More by Vallalan